I don't understand why anyone likes this about the DO schools

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ocwaveoc

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I've heard many say that it's great that you are allowed to go anywhere for your electives...go out of state, another country or even across town. Such is true at MD schools I suppose if the student wants to set up their own electives during the 4th yr. But, they have choices between staying in their MD school teaching hospitals for all of their 4th yr clinicals (meaning you don't have to look for places to live and go through all the steps to attain a rotation every time) or going away. At DO schools, YOU are on your own for the electives. In my opinion this is very much less than ideal. This is a huge deal for me in choosing between DO and MD schools. If DO schools can't provide you with teaching hospitals to do your electives in, as the MD schools can, they should have sufficient elective sites near the schools to compensate for this.

I do not see how this is a positive aspect of DO education.
 
It is a big advantage to rotate through sites that you may be interested in applying for residency at. And DO schools aren't the only ones who do this. MD students have elective rotations where their students go to other sites too. They do it all the time.

And rotating through different sites for core rotations can be beneficial for the same reason. So you have to travel around a little. Big deal.
 
It is a big advantage to rotate through sites that you may be interested in applying for residency at. And DO schools aren't the only ones who do this. MD students have elective rotations where their students go to other sites too. They do it all the time.

And rotating through different sites for core rotations can be beneficial for the same reason. So you have to travel around a little. Big deal.

My point is that in MD schools you have the choice between staying at the teaching hospital for the electives the entire time, most of the time or none of the time. At DO schools you MUST do all of your electives by traveling around like a nomad. One of the resident from Touro-CA I met 2 years ago disliked this about his school. One of UMDNJ-DO student hated the fact that she had to look for housing every 4 weeks during her 4th yr.

Again,
MD=gives you the choice
DO=No choice
 
I don't think this is true for all DO schools. I asked about this during my interviews at Touro-Nevada and AZCOM, and both schools assured me that there were enough rotation spots with nearby affiliated hospitals to allow students to stay in the same housing during the entire 3rd and 4th years if they wanted. I think that it is really dependent upon each school and their locations.
 
Seriously, if this is true then how can someone maintain a house or even a marriage?
Good grief, now that I think about it, I have noticed that DO schools mentioned this......

Great, my wife has another reason that medical school is a bad idea. All the schools I'm looking at operate this way.

Wonderful!
 
I agree with the OP. Having no choice is definitely not advantageous. Isn't this also exactly how the Caribbean schools run things? Student sets up all rotations?
 
OP...

not all DO schools treat rotations this way. some do, but most have a set of rotation sites (preferably geographically close). i think you are worrying too much, and even with a school that has a teaching hospital...your electives are on your own to set up.
 
My point is that in MD schools you have the choice between staying at the teaching hospital for the electives the entire time, most of the time or none of the time. At DO schools you MUST do all of your electives by traveling around like a nomad. One of the resident from Touro-CA I met 2 years ago disliked this about his school. One of UMDNJ-DO student hated the fact that she had to look for housing every 4 weeks during her 4th yr.

Again,
MD=gives you the choice
DO=No choice


UMDNJ has its own teaching hospital. I would imagine that any traveling rotations were done so on a purely voluntary basis??? Can a UMDNJ student back this up? However, your 4th year is generally full of "audition rotations" (I believe) which can require more traveling if you'd like to go somewhere far away.
 
I think that it is an advantage to see how different hospitals/settings handle situations in different ways; rather than going into your residency/practice having only one perspective. Also, the way that I understand it is that most DO schools do give you the choice for rotations. However, if you want you can choose to have a 'home site' from which you travel to nearby hospitals for most of your rotations. Lastly, these sites may have a limited number of spots; so do well during the first two years and you shouldn't have to worry about traveling as much.
 
That isn't true for all DO schools. Especially for those located near good size cities where there are a variety of hospitals. My state MD school I was looking at going into was in a city with only two small hospitals, nothing within 2 hours of it, and only had a single FP residency program in town. So it also has to do with where the school is located and what resources are close by.

But like others have said, you are going to want to do you electives at places where you might want to do you residency at, so MD or DO.... people will be setting up their own electives.
 
For 4th year at DO and MD schools, you have to travel for your elective(interview rotations) regardless if you have a teaching hospital or not. For example if you want surgery, you will travel and do an elective in other hospitals surgery programs. You might do one month in your house program,but you limit your chance of matching if you dont rotate at other places which you will apply. Also in medicine training there is this thing called inbreeding and that is where you are taught and trained by the same people, therefore you only learn how to do things one way. Schools try to reduce by not filling there house program with all their own students.
 
Assuming that you're near a big city, there's no reason you can't set up some of your electives in the same place, or at least within a reasonable drive. However, "auditioning" is very important when it comes to the Match, so unless you're planning on only applying to programs in one city, you'll have to travel a bit.
 
FYI..Not all MD schools have teaching hospitals. And those schools that do not (both MD and DO) have previously set up rotations for students with housing arranged. At DMU, we have an office specifically for rotations where they have all the rotations and housing set up prior to rotations starting. Trust me, do not let the fact that you have to travel for rotations deter you from going to DO schools. Bottom line, I want to be a doctor and I am going to be a doctor and it means nothing to me if I have to travel during rotations.
 
FYI..Not all MD schools have teaching hospitals. And those schools that do not (both MD and DO) have previously set up rotations for students with housing arranged. At DMU, we have an office specifically for rotations where they have all the rotations and housing set up prior to rotations starting. Trust me, do not let the fact that you have to travel for rotations deter you from going to DO schools. Bottom line, I want to be a doctor and I am going to be a doctor and it means nothing to me if I have to travel during rotations.

Does the DMU's office do this for elective rotations as well? I understand that all of the core rotations are set up by the school. But, what about the electives?
 
Does the DMU's office do this for elective rotations as well? I understand that all of the core rotations are set up by the school. But, what about the electives?


Yes, with DMU, you inform the office of your elective rotations and they work with you in setting up the rotation and housing.
 
Yes, with DMU, you inform the office of your elective rotations and they work with you in setting up the rotation and housing.

Wow, DMU just went up a huge notch in my book with that info. I have an interview in December with them. I'll ask them more about that. thanks.
 
ocwaveoc: do you have a family? How old are you? Just curious where you're coming from that this is such a concern for you.
 
I went to LECOM-Erie, with a husband and 2 toddlers. Needless to say there was NO WAY I was leaving my kids to do out rotations for electives. With few exceptions I stayed in Erie the entire time for all my core and elective rotations. SO to say that you won't consider DO schools for some ridiculous reason about 4th year electives is not very mature nor well-informed. There is always a way to deal with rotations. I found that most of my rotation group did not want to stay in Erie so I had my pick of sites. Also, LECOM has a list of affiliates that have housing/food for students so you just let the rotation office know of your site choice and they submit your name. It's really minimal effort for the student. However, if you want to go elsewhere, there were students who did all of their last 2 years on the West coast, then it up to you to find the sites, housing, etc. Many students wanted to do rotations closer to home so they could have parental housing. Also, if you have your eye on a specific residency location, you would be dumb not to rotation there and get your face in the mix. Otherwise you are just another name on paper and no one has ever worked with you. Hope that clears things up.
 
Also, if you look at Touro-NY, you'll see that due to their dedication to serving the underserved communities of New York City, all of the rotations are at local locations. So if potential travells are seen as problematic to you, know there are definitely DO options out there...
 
The 3rd and 4th year of Osteopathic Medical Education is an interesting beast with both pros and cons. I'm a third-year LECOM-Erie and I have spent the last 6 months traveling between Philadelphia-Scranton-New York and I am now currently in Pittsburgh. Obviously the downside to this situation is that I have not had a residence to call my own for the past six months and probably won't until residency. However I feel that these experiences will help me in the long run because I have been able to meet an enumerable amount of residents and attendings.

I think the most interesting thing about the last 6 months is that I have essentially received a "backdoor" allopathic medical education. My first two months were spent with general surgery residents from Jefferson, my third month was an elective at Mt. Sinai in NYC, fourth was a vacation month, fifth was through the Scranton-Temple (Temple University) Residency Program and my current rotation is at the Western Pennsylvania Hospital in Pittsburgh which is a major clinical campus for Temple University.

My question is: Where is the consistency?

Bouncing around from hospital to hospital you have a difficult time figuring out how to use computer systems or building significant relationships with attendings. The "education" varies from hospital to hospital and is clearly dependent on the amount of teaching the residents feel like doing. After doing a month at a major academic medical center, I can clearly see our education as osteopathic medical students is not as consistent as it should be. Our counterparts receive lectures, have mentors and have well-developed relationships with clinical faculty.

Sadly when osteopathic medical schools send their students to institutions that are primary affiliates of allopathic medical students, we, the osteopathic medical students, are given the scraps. I have seen several students show up for their first day of their medicine clerkship only to be thrown in with a cardiologist. At the time this may seem like an amazing opportunity, but the fact is you are not learning general medicine on a cardiology service. It is clear that such situations ultimately hurt our education.

In the short term I feel the structure of the current 3rd/4th year curriculum will help me find the residency I want. This feeling is substantiated by the fact that over the past several years we have matched students at prestigious and competitive programs in both the osteopathic and allopathic matches.

In the long term I feel this structure will hurt osteopathic medicine. Our counterparts in the allopathic medical schools frequently give off the vibe that we are invading their institutions and "stealing" their education - and rightly so. There are too few osteopathic hospitals left to support a purely osteopathic medical education and unless schools begin to notice this, our education will continue to become more and more allopathic.

Fortunately I have a good grasp and gestalt take on what is occurring and find myself taking full advantage of the opportunities I'm given. Conversely I know there are many in my class that will not be able to see these opportunities when they are presented to them and will suffer because they are not in a structured, consistent education setting which they would have received had they gone to an allopathic medical school.

Well I suppose that is enough for now. Please PM me if you have any questions about my experience so far.
 
The fear of the unknown generally makes people uneasy....

I would talk to someone ASAP if this is a deciding factor in where you'll matriculate. Otherwise talk with the clinical coordinators once you're there and make sure you have a grip on it before your 3rd year.
 
Also, a lot of hospitals you do your electives at have everything set up already. I'm looking to do electives back home, and one of the DO-exclusive teaching hospitals that I want to rotate provides apartments at no additional cost and all of your meals while you're on duty.

Sounds like a good deal to me, I get free housing, food, and face time at a hospital I plan on applying at for residency. I don't get why anyone DOESN'T like this about DO schools.
 
This is why it is important to research these schools the right way. Things like how nice the anatomy lab are really aren't that big of a deal when you compare it to the quality of rotations. Like other people have said, plenty of DO schools (like the ones in cities), have all of thier rotations at area hospitals so you never have to leave the area and, if you choose, you can always have the same home. These programs have DO attendings and clinical faculty that make the 3rd and 4th years an osteopathic experience. PCOM gives you the option of going outside of thier network if you choose to do so. Some students can become "Geisinger Students" if they like central PA and do all of thier rotations at that hospital, or just hop all over the map for thier elective...but they don't have to.

There is no reason to be blind-sided by this when you become a 3rd year or even as a 1st year. Ask the right questions on interviews and make sure you research the schools the right way. There are DO schools that do not have a great rotation network, so if you have a problem moving around or don't like the rural scene...find another school.
 
I agree that being shipped all over the country is not good. Schools that have their own teaching hospitals are at a huge advantage. They can hire their own faculty, design their own curriculums, and keep close tabs on the educational experiences of the medical students. There is a reason this model is the gold standard for medical student education.
 
I agree that traveling all over creation for rotations sucks.

However, the advantage of doing these type of DO rotations (i.e. not in "teaching" hospitals) is that you are usually 1-on-1 with the attending, and this get to do more, and therefore, learn more.

For example, on a gen surg rotation at a large teaching hospital, the attending will cutting, the residents assisting, and you will be standing there "observing". At a non-teaching hospital, you often get to 1st assist. I promise you will learn WAY more that way.

The drawbacks are the travel, and the inconsistencies. You may have a great attending at one hospital/rotation and a horrible one at the next. Although, I am sure that must be encountered at a teaching hospital as well.

Perhaps this should be discussed on the clinical rotations board?
 
I guess I can underestand both sides of the story... if your married, have kids, you really don't wanna be traving back and forth between cities to finish your 4th year.......... But the good news is, it only lasts 1 year (its not like you have to do this during residency)

I guess now I know why alot of doctors I speak to always tell me NOT to get married until I am done with residency years.

my opinion is, I don't give a crap what they do to me during 3rd and 4th year, the way I see it, my medical education is 7 years (4 school + 3 residency), they can do WHATEVER THE HELL they want with me (that sounded alittle dirty 😀 ) because after 7 years, I'll be able to practice medicine in whatever place I choose to.
 
I agree that being shipped all over the country is not good. Schools that have their own teaching hospitals are at a huge advantage. They can hire their own faculty, design their own curriculums, and keep close tabs on the educational experiences of the medical students. There is a reason this model is the gold standard for medical student education.

THANK YOU!
 
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