I hope and pray that I can continue and things will change. please help.

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cj234

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My gpa is sub-3.0 (2.78) and very low. I've taken 220+ units of science courses. my mcat is 25. During college had a brutal death in the family, got depressed and determined... kind of attitude (kept taking classes) and couldn't do well -- mostly C's.

From oregon. First in family to finish high school and college and very adamant about pursuing medicine.


is it a terrible idea to repeat many classes if I have no other option?
I will be retaking my mcat as well. solid ECs.
 
It is not a terrible idea if you are determined. Check out the grade replacement requirements and benefits of DO programs.
 
This is a pretty blunt answer but I think it is correct. It is all about what you're willing to give up. Most premeds answer to this is "whatever it takes", which can be more than they realize and not terribly pragmatic. I would think for DO you would have to redo at least half your science and likely retake the MCAT. I don't know much about your state mentally or the death in the family but I don't think using that as an excuse for getting Cs all throughout college will help. Even if you do this admission is unlikely unless you get near a 4.0 on your retakes which is easier said than done. If you have the time and the money or are willing to take on the debt you could try but I would consider other paths very quickly if your first semester or any subsequent semester back is not 3.7+
 
You have so many units that MD school is extremely unlikely. You'd have to put in 220 units at 4.0 just to get your GPA up to acceptable levels.

Try DO with grade replacement, if you can stomach the retakes. Realistically though, you've got an extremely hard road ahead, as Cs straight up don't cut it for medical school admission. You'll need to retake a lot of stuff, basically. If you knock out a couple years at 4.0, you might be able to gain admission to the DO schools that reward reinvention. MD is basically a non-option at this point, as your GPA will fall below the screen of every MD school in the country and your application will thus be directed directly into the trash.
 
To put it bluntly, even if you do get into med school, your track record indicates that you will have a hard time doing well academically. Medical school is undergrad on steroids and at 10x the speed. Unless you had undiagnosed ADHD, a drug problem, depression/illness, or some other reversible cause of your poor academic performance it is unlikely that you will succeed in medical school with the constant onslaught of NBMEs, shelf exams, USMLE, and course finals.

Think about nursing or PA school - both of which are still hard to do and not easy to get into, but may increase your chances of success if you can't possibly accept doing anything else besides healthcare. I would encourage you to think about other options.
 
cj234 said:
My gpa is sub-3.0 (2.78) and very low. I've taken 220+ units of science courses. my mcat is 25. During college had a brutal death in the family, got depressed and determined... kind of attitude (kept taking classes) and couldn't do well -- mostly C's.

From oregon. First in family to finish high school and college and very adamant about pursuing medicine.


is it a terrible idea to repeat many classes if I have no other option?
I will be retaking my mcat as well. solid ECs.
Click to expand...

How do you do 220 units of science courses? That's nearly two bachelor degrees worth of credits...
 
ShireCheshire said:
To put it bluntly, even if you do get into med school, your track record indicates that you will have a hard time doing well academically. Medical school is undergrad on steroids and at 10x the speed. Unless you had undiagnosed ADHD, a drug problem, depression/illness, or some other reversible cause of your poor academic performance it is unlikely that you will succeed in medical school with the constant onslaught of NBMEs, shelf exams, USMLE, and course finals.

Think about nursing or PA school - both of which are still hard to do and not easy to get into, but may increase your chances of success if you can't possibly accept doing anything else besides healthcare. I would encourage you to think about other options.
Click to expand...

PA would be very difficult to get into because of the limited number of seats and programs. Nursing more feasible I think- you'd have to talk to nursing schools and check..
 
I think you can benefit for a post-bacc, a masters or a nursing degree. It'll be more money/time but you also get a new degree that you can use for work or research instead of staying in undergrad taking science courses over for a degree that you cannot market.

If your mind is set in medicine I say take a couple of years to get a graduate degree, retake mcat, strengthen your ECs. You seem determined so postponing the app for 2-3 years should not be a problem.

I also have low stats, applied and did not get in. I am looking into graduate programs.
 
DoctressM said:
I think you can benefit for a post-bacc, a masters or a nursing degree. It'll be more money/time but you also get a new degree that you can use for work or research instead of staying in undergrad taking science courses over for a degree that you cannot market.

If your mind is set in medicine I say take a couple of years to get a graduate degree, retake mcat, strengthen your ECs. You seem determined so postponing the app for 2-3 years should not be a problem.

I also have low stats, applied and did not get in. I am looking into graduate programs.
Click to expand...
Graduate courses don't affect your undergraduate GPA calculation, so they really don't help OP avoid being screened. Nursing or another allied health position would be a good move, particularly nursing, as OP could go the midlevel route if their nursing grades didn't pan out well enough for medical school.
 
pursuing medical school is a waste of time for you. sorry to be blunt, but i hope to be helpful.

nursing or technical school ie radiology, perfusion, therapies (speech, physical, occupational), research - you can find fulfillment in healthcare outside of being a doctor.

i don't mean to belittle your personal tragedy - but to do well in medical school and as a doctor one has to perform despite life's tragedies that befall us all. everyone has deaths in the family, divorce, weddings, births, disability, etc...
 
Sorry it was 160 units total of science -- with the last 30 units at 3.5 gpa of postbac.
Is it terrible to do so many grade replacements? or does it show commitment ?
 
cj234 said:
Sorry it was 160 units total of science -- with the last 30 units at 3.5 gpa of postbac.
Is it terrible to do so many grade replacements? or does it show commitment ?
Click to expand...

Grade replacement is looked at positively for DO schools.
 
Mad Jack said:
You have so many units that MD school is extremely unlikely. You'd have to put in 220 units at 4.0 just to get your GPA up to acceptable levels.

Try DO with grade replacement, if you can stomach the retakes. Realistically though, you've got an extremely hard road ahead, as Cs straight up don't cut it for medical school admission. You'll need to retake a lot of stuff, basically. If you knock out a couple years at 4.0, you might be able to gain admission to the DO schools that reward reinvention. MD is basically a non-option at this point, as your GPA will fall below the screen of every MD school in the country and your application will thus be directed directly into the trash.
Click to expand...

I don't understand- what is wrong with lots of units? Isn't it the GPA that counts?
 
Caribbean, it's not a very great option, but getting accepted into one of the big 3 would be a better route than spending 5 more years re taking classes to maybe... Maybe go to a DO school. (To clarify DO>Caribbean, but if given the choice between getting into a carribean school now, vs taking a million science courses again over the next 5 years...)
 
Fedekz said:
Caribbean, it's not a very great option, but getting accepted into one of the big 3 would be a better route than spending 5 more years re taking classes to maybe... Maybe go to a DO school. (To clarify DO>Caribbean, but if given the choice between getting into a carribean school now, vs taking a million science courses again over the next 5 years...)
Click to expand...

I recommend pursuing another profession altogether if Caribbean is the only option. It's not worth the time, money or effort.
 
Your grades suck. You don't deserve to be a physician.
You are going to mess up lives if you practice and are not capable of understanding the material.
Do something else.
 
md932 said:
Your grades suck. You don't deserve to be a physician.
You are going to mess up lives if you practice and are not capable of understanding the material.
Do something else.
Click to expand...

That's a really blunt thing to say and not true. While MD is going to take years of improvement if you want even a shot, the DO grade replacement policy + an MCAT retake probably would make you ok for a DO school. Anybody can get into med school if they put in the effort. Just my $0.02. Maybe @Goro could chime in, as he works for a DO school.
 
Fedekz said:
Caribbean, it's not a very great option, but getting accepted into one of the big 3 would be a better route than spending 5 more years re taking classes to maybe... Maybe go to a DO school. (To clarify DO>Caribbean, but if given the choice between getting into a carribean school now, vs taking a million science courses again over the next 5 years...)
Click to expand...
This is just awful advice. I'm not sure the OP would even get into Caribbean schools and if they did I doubt they'd be successful and graduate.

OP your options are really limited. Go read up on the DO grade replacement option, shadow a DO and spend considerable time thinking about this decision. Or you will end up with a useless degree and no way out. You also need to develop a timeline so you don't waste the next 20 years thinking you're going to get into med school. Start working on a plan B.
 
candbgirl said:
Do you really believe that? There are thousands of students who would disagree with you.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Just quit.

It's ok to quit. Everyone has family problems, issues, etc. You won't make it.
 
md932 said:
Your grades suck. You don't deserve to be a physician.
You are going to mess up lives if you practice and are not capable of understanding the material.
Do something else.
Click to expand...

This post does not indicate the capability to handle other people's emotions or a sense of empathy. I hope that, if you (not OP, but quoted poster) are pursuing medicine, you choose a field where you do not have to deal with people, or else you yourself will risk hurting many.

To OP- follow your passion. That's all there is to life. If it's medicine, do that and find a way to overcome your obstacles or a unique path to engage in it, whether biotech, research, whatever suits your fancy with a path that feels reasonable to you. If it's something else well- you know, do that.
 
candbgirl said:
Do you really believe that? There are thousands of students who would disagree with you.
Click to expand...

There are DO schools with ~40th percentile median MCATs and straight B's / low 3.x isn't hard to pull off if you're at the right schools. Not ANYBODY can get in with hard work...but a shocking number of mediocre and below average students certainly can
 
Wow this thread is depressing.... OP see if you can ace your classes, if you can then follow other ppl's advice on DO; if not....well then try to find another career. Med isn't the only thing available in this world, plenty of interesting fields out there too.
 
Its not THAT far from true. I'd guess the majority of the bottom third of MCAT scores were people who didn't put in the effort to adequately study, and there are schools full of generously graded classes that require work not brains. His statement that with enough hard work anyone could get in is pretty accurate
 
In my recent grades I've gotten an A in anatomy, biochem, immunology, and micro.
I've also gotten a few B's in physio and other courses but this was due to taking about 5 courses of upperdiv bio at once.

I'm good at Bio, good at biochem, and other related subjects. but I am not very good at math and chem calculations. That has hurt me the most.

I want to keep trying - northernlights15 posts says that repeating is looked at positively for do schools.
I guess many schools will look at it positively and others will think it's too many repeats.
 
cj234 said:
In my recent grades I've gotten an A in anatomy, biochem, immunology, and micro.
I've also gotten a few B's in physio and other courses but this was due to taking about 5 courses of upperdiv bio at once.

I'm good at Bio, good at biochem, and other related subjects. but I am not very good at math and chem calculations. That has hurt me the most.

I want to keep trying - northernlights15 posts says that repeating is looked at positively for do schools.
I guess many schools will look at it positively and others will think it's too many repeats.
Click to expand...

I say keep trying, you seem to have it in you. As for math and chem, practice is key and the internet is full of university exams you can use for practice.
 
The recent upswing is a good sign.

What is your AACOMAS GPA? Have you retaken all F/D/C science coursework?

If not, you must do that to get your GPA > 3.0 line.

I would recommend seeing a therapist to deal with your mental health issues. Good coping skills are a must for success in medical school.

How many of your most recent semesters/quarters have you had a GPA > 3.0? With only A's and B's?


cj234 said:
In my recent grades I've gotten an A in anatomy, biochem, immunology, and micro.
I've also gotten a few B's in physio and other courses but this was due to taking about 5 courses of upperdiv bio at once.

I'm good at Bio, good at biochem, and other related subjects. but I am not very good at math and chem calculations. That has hurt me the most.

I want to keep trying - northernlights15 posts says that repeating is looked at positively for do schools.
I guess many schools will look at it positively and others will think it's too many repeats.
Click to expand...
 
1st semester 4.0 with 4 upperdivs
2nd semester 3.1 with 6 upperdivs and 2 audits - while studying for mcat.
 
candbgirl said:
Do you really believe that? There are thousands of students who would disagree with you.
Click to expand...

I honestly do. Provided they did not have a learning/severe mental disability, anybody could do it. I believe that anything can be achieved in life if the effort is put in. Obviously, the effort needed will vary from person to person.
 
Look for a back up plan. Getting in is the first step, don't treat it like the finish line. If life stressors continue to occur are you going to respond in the same way while taking classes in med school? If tragedy occurs again are you going to underperform for step and not match? If outside of work issues occur are you going to perform poorly as a resident? There are many pit falls ahead and we have many data points to see you're more vulnerable to these.
 
cj234 said:
1st semester 4.0 with 4 upperdivs
2nd semester 3.1 with 6 upperdivs and 2 audits - while studying for mcat.
Click to expand...
IMO this shows poor judgement. 1st semester was great. 2nd semester you took 6 upper div classes for credit, 2 audits and studied for the MCAT? Why did you do that? Understand from this point on you have to get >3.7 each and every semester. A3.1 is not going to help you in your quest for med school. I'm sort of surprised you did as well as you did on the MCAT. I know a 25 is low but with everything else ... You can't dig yourself out of the hole you're in with just a semester or 2 of work. It's going to take awhile.
 
if I plan to take many courses - is it a terrible idea to retake some chem and bio lowerdivs at CC?
 
Your GPA is very low, so you're going to need to do some serious repair if you want a chance. However, DO schools do grade replacement, as has been said, so your retakes will replace your old grades if you do better the second time around. Your 25 on the MCAT actually isn't terribly low for DO schools if I'm remembering right, but it might be advisable to retake it in order to show your improvement in your academic habits.

Things I think you do have in your favor - the fact that you are a first generation college graduate; if what I've been led to believe is true, this is something they take a lot of time considering on your application. In addition, if you can ace the grade replacements and recover from the traumatic experience, it shows an ability to overcome adversity, which is also looked on positively.

This won't at all be easy, and I can't guarantee that you'll make it - 2.7 is very low. But, I think it's possible.
 
One thing you should be aware of. It not only applies to medical school and college, but to many other aspects in life. To fix a problem, like candbgirl said, you are going to need to work a lot to replace those bad grades. One year of good cannot replace 4+ of bad. Your downward trend shows you are not committed. If you really want it, you have to put the work in. I was thinking it was quite blunt at first to say that you may not have what it takes, but at this point, after you had posted your stats, you are in trouble. You might want to consider other health careers, like podiatry or physical therapy. If you really want to be a doctor, you are going to have to spend YEARS fixing that gpa, and you have to be committed, because right now, I don't really see it in you that you truly want to be a physician.
 
Goro said:
The recent upswing is a good sign.

What is your AACOMAS GPA? Have you retaken all F/D/C science coursework?

If not, you must do that to get your GPA > 3.0 line.

I would recommend seeing a therapist to deal with your mental health issues. Good coping skills are a must for success in medical school.

How many of your most recent semesters/quarters have you had a GPA > 3.0? With only A's and B's?
Click to expand...


This is an important idea. At the end of the day you can talk about GPA all you want; it's there because you have to prove you are capable of handling medical school. Retakes are great and they'll increase your GPA but retaking a class and getting an A isn't showing anybody you can handle medical school. @Goro can chime in here and correct whatever I say that isn't correct but just retaking classes and getting your GPA above 3.0 still isn't showing you can handle a load of new classes(and med school is all new classes not classes you've already taken) and hence you aren't proving you can handle the load needed for medical school. Your most recent performance in new classes of a 3.1 shows when the classes are thrown at you, you haven't performed at the level necessary even now.

IF you can do several semesters of strong showings(3.7+) that include new classes and not just retakes, then you have really helped yourself and put yourself in a good position. A >3.0 GPA with an upward trend based on new classes will put you in a much much better position to get into a DO school. No it won't change your numerical GPA much at all, but it will again prove the idea that you can handle the workload at the level needed for medical school. But just retakes by themselves to boost your GPA and applying to medical school as is in light of your recent performance still hasn't proven you can handle the workload.

I'll also chime in retake the MCAT whenever you are better prepared in terms of understanding content and having practiced MCAT questions but also mentally and emotionally. Boosting that MCAT from 25 to something along the lines of 29 will also make a significant difference and can give you some more wiggle room with that GPA which even with retakes is going to take a long time to move at 220 credits.
 
Last edited:
Concur. OP needs a solid year of performance where As outnumber Bs.

GrapesofRath said:
This is an important idea. At the end of the day you can talk about GPA all you want; it's there because you have to prove you are capable of handling medical school. Retakes are great and they'll increase your GPA but retaking a class and getting an A isn't showing anybody you can handle medical school. @Goro can chime in here and correct whatever I say that isn't correct but just retaking classes and getting your GPA above 3.0 still isn't showing you can handle a load of new classes(and med school is all new classes not classes you've already taken) and hence you aren't proving you can handle the load needed for medical school. Your most recent performance in new classes of a 3.1 shows when the classes are thrown at you, you haven't performed at the level necessary even now.

IF you can do a year of post-bac or another year of undergrad with 2-3 semesters of strong showings(3.7+), then you have really helped yourself and put yourself in a good position. A >3.0 GPA with an upward trend based on new classes will put you in a much much better position to get into a DO school. No it won't change your numerical GPA much at all, but it will again prove the idea that you can handle the workload at the level needed for medical school. But just retakes by themselves to boost your GPA and applying to medical school as is in light of your recent performance still hasn't proven you can handle the workload.
Click to expand...
 
Gurby said:
OP, re-read both of these posts and think about them for a few minutes.
Click to expand...

SORRY YES.
I tend to be afraid -- thinking "what will adcoms think???" .. should I do this.. that... etc.


After my last semester -- it might be best to go back and take cc and get closer to 4.0 in the next semester before continuing.
 
cj234 said:
SORRY YES.
I tend to be afraid -- thinking "what will adcoms think???" .. should I do this.. that... etc.


After my last semester -- it might be best to go back and take cc and get closer to 4.0 in the next semester before continuing.
Click to expand...

Prepare to work a lot. This will no way in hell be easy. You have to truly prove to adcoms you truly can handle med school classes and board exams.
 
I know someone who applied 6 times and got in at he age of 42

So like if this is absolutely what you want, it is doable.
 
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