I literally don't know where to apply

[kinty]

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Hey all, is anyone else completely overwhelmed by the sheer number of medical schools? I honestly don't even know where to apply. The only schools that are familiar to me are big name and I'm afraid to apply to them because of the standards. Also, my home state has zero public medical schools.

I guess I should post stats?

3.95 GPA, 516 MCAT (126 CARS....), been living abroad for 4 years and have good volunteer hours here, fluent in resident country's language (hold official certification from test as well), did research in UG, held leadership positions in UG and hold one now, but I have EDIT: under 200 hours clinical/shadowing experience. I'm mainly relying on my unique work and volunteer experience (non-medical) and my grades for my application. I also apparently have very good recommendations and a good personal statement according to my school's advisor.

I'm interested in surgery. I just want to get in and hopefully that place is sunny. Any advice?

 

[MusiMedical]

It may be pretty hard to get into a medical school with only one week of clinical and/or shadowing experience. You should definitely do more clinical work before/while you are applying!

 

[kinty]

It may be pretty hard to get into a medical school with only one week of clinical and/or shadowing experience. You should definitely do more clinical work before/while you are applying!

My week of clinical experience consisted of 5 full days in a hospital shadowing interns in the clinic, tours of different departments and one on one interviews with several attendings, as well as compiling data for a breast cancer study (my original reason for being there) with a nurse oncologist I know well. I don't know if that makes it any better? It was a pretty "yup, guess I want to do this after all" kind of experience and one I didn't really think about improving during my 4 years overseas (still here)

 

[Siromas]

Use this: WedgeDawg's Applicant Rating System (Updated Jan 2017)

Also, I highly recommend investing in a subscription to the MSAR. Apply to private schools that are friendly to OOS applicants (>~25% of the class are OOS matriculants).

 

[Lucca]

First draft: go through your state schools

Second draft: WARS

Third draft: MSAR / website browsing based on geographic /curriculum/ program preferences.

 

[YouEverHadOurSausages?]

If your home state has a private medical school, it may show greater preference towards in-state applicants. Also keep an eye on public schools in neighboring states as they usually help out students from states with no public schools.

 

[Catalystik]

Hey all, is anyone else completely overwhelmed by the sheer number of medical schools? I honestly don't even know where to apply. The only schools that are familiar to me are big name and I'm afraid to apply to them because of the standards. Also, my home state has zero public medical schools.

I guess I should post stats?

3.95 GPA, 516 MCAT (126 CARS....), been living abroad for 4 years and have good volunteer hours here, fluent in resident country's language (hold official certification from test as well), did research in UG, held leadership positions in UG and hold one now, but I have only one week clinical/shadowing experience. I'm mainly relying on my unique work and volunteer experience (non-medical) and my grades for my application. I also apparently have very good recommendations and a good personal statement according to my school's advisor.

I'm interested in surgery. I just want to get in and hopefully that place is sunny. Any advice?

In which country did you earn your bachelors degree? It sounds like it wasn't in the US. Are you a US citizen or green card holder?

 

[Catalystik]

My week of clinical experience consisted of 5 full days in a hospital shadowing interns in the clinic, tours of different departments and one on one interviews with several attendings, as well as compiling data for a breast cancer study (my original reason for being there) with a nurse oncologist I know well. I don't know if that makes it any better? It was a pretty "yup, guess I want to do this after all" kind of experience and one I didn't really think about improving during my 4 years overseas (still here)

No.

 

[maplecookie]

MSAR will probably be your best resource for your initial list of schools since you can filter through a lot of hard stats with it
After that, it'll probably be you researching individual schools (on their own website and outside sources) to see about fit
Also, when you have a decent list, you can try posting it on SDN for advice on refining it
I agree about the OOS advice people have been giving on this thread

I would try to work on boosting your clinical experience as much as you can even as late as it is now-even if you don't get a position in time for your primary you can include it as part of your secondaries/update letters

While it's great that your week of shadowing was jam-packed and you feel like you learned a lot from it, it is still really only a week. There's no long-term commitment aspect to it-which is one of the things which makes one experience more valuable than another on your application. Your work and non-medical volunteer experiences humanize you and give adcoms a better sense of what kind of person you are but clinical experience is what shows that you have really involved yourself in healthcare and know what you're getting yourself into when you want to become a doctor with a career in healthcare for (probably) the rest of your life. In other words, your lack of clinical experience will really hurt you and I'm not sure how much your other experiences will "make up" for it.

This is my two cents, good luck!

 

[chaim123]

Hey all, is anyone else completely overwhelmed by the sheer number of medical schools? I honestly don't even know where to apply. The only schools that are familiar to me are big name and I'm afraid to apply to them because of the standards. Also, my home state has zero public medical schools.

I guess I should post stats?

3.95 GPA, 516 MCAT (126 CARS....), been living abroad for 4 years and have good volunteer hours here, fluent in resident country's language (hold official certification from test as well), did research in UG, held leadership positions in UG and hold one now, but I have only one week clinical/shadowing experience. I'm mainly relying on my unique work and volunteer experience (non-medical) and my grades for my application. I also apparently have very good recommendations and a good personal statement according to my school's advisor.

I'm interested in surgery. I just want to get in and hopefully that place is sunny. Any advice?

Unfortunately, your lack of clinical experience is going to be a liability - adcoms will wonder if your really know that you want this or not. I'd recommend strengthening that aspect of your app, and use the MSAR as everyone else has recommended. it did me wonders.

 

[LizzyM]

Any personal experience as a patient or family member of a patient? Any experience as the offspring or spouse of a health care professional? Any exposure to health care settings in childhood or adolescence? I'm grasping at straws here. Frankly, you've got everything going for you except clinical exposure and that's a relatively important aspect of any application.

Also, is there any US city with a med school that also has a fairly large non-English speaking population that speaks the language you are fluent in?? If there is a demand for providers who speak that language, your skills may give you a foot in the door but if the language is not in demand (e.g. Mongolian or Kyrgyz) it may not be seen as much of a plus.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

but I have only one week clinical/shadowing experience. I'm mainly relying on my unique work and volunteer experience (non-medical) and my grades for my application.

What The "Cat," LizzyM, and others is strongly hinting at is that you will likely be a reapplicant if you apply with the lack of longterm clinical volunteering or clinical employment experience. Therefore, I'd suggest you don't apply this cycle, take a gap year, and take the year to get 200+ hours of this experience through volunteering or scribing, etc...

Peruse the Reapplicant forum and you will see applicants with more competitive metrics and ECs who did not get in because they lacked enough clinical experience.

 

[Goro]

Hey all, is anyone else completely overwhelmed by the sheer number of medical schools? I honestly don't even know where to apply. The only schools that are familiar to me are big name and I'm afraid to apply to them because of the standards. Also, my home state has zero public medical schools.

I guess I should post stats?

3.95 GPA, 516 MCAT (126 CARS....), been living abroad for 4 years and have good volunteer hours here, fluent in resident country's language (hold official certification from test as well), did research in UG, held leadership positions in UG and hold one now, but I have only one week clinical/shadowing experience. I'm mainly relying on my unique work and volunteer experience (non-medical) and my grades for my application. I also apparently have very good recommendations and a good personal statement according to my school's advisor.

I'm interested in surgery. I just want to get in and hopefully that place is sunny. Any advice?

What are you going to say when asked how you know you are suited for a life of caring for the sick and suffering? “That you just know”? Imagine how that will go over!

from LizzyM: If you have more than 300 hours of non-clinical volunteering by the time you apply you will be in the top 25% of applicants with regard to community service (based on what I see). The tip top of the pyramid are those who do a full-time volunteerism during a gap year or two (Peace Corps, City Year, etc).

Clinical... top 25% of the pool have employment in a clinical setting: EMT, scribe, patient care technician (aide). The hours don't matter... it is going to be hundreds of hours if you even work full-time for a few weeks.

Here's the deal: You need to show AdComs that you know what you're getting into, and show off your altruistic, humanistic side. We need to know that you're going to like being around sick or injured people for the next 40 years.

Here's another way of looking at it: would you buy a new car without test driving it? Buy a new suit or dress without trying it on??

We're also not looking for merely for good medical students, we're looking for people who will make good doctors, and 4.0 GPA robots are a dime-a-dozen.

I've seen plenty of posts here from high GPA/high MCAT candidates who were rejected because they had little patient contact experience.

Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

Based upon your stats (AFTER you get in the clinical exposure), I recommend:
Harvard
Stanford
Sinai
Cornell
Columbia
Duke
U VA
U MI
BU
Case
USC/Keck
Mayo
U Cincy
Pitt
USF Morsani
Ohio State
Hofstra
U IA
Albert Einstein
Emory
Rochester
Dartmouth
Miami
Western MI
Jefferson
U VM
Your state school

 

[kinty]

What are you going to say when asked how you know you are suited for a life of caring for the sick and suffering? “That you just know”? Imagine how that will go over!

from LizzyM: If you have more than 300 hours of non-clinical volunteering by the time you apply you will be in the top 25% of applicants with regard to community service (based on what I see). The tip top of the pyramid are those who do a full-time volunteerism during a gap year or two (Peace Corps, City Year, etc).

Clinical... top 25% of the pool have employment in a clinical setting: EMT, scribe, patient care technician (aide). The hours don't matter... it is going to be hundreds of hours if you even work full-time for a few weeks.

Here's the deal: You need to show AdComs that you know what you're getting into, and show off your altruistic, humanistic side. We need to know that you're going to like being around sick or injured people for the next 40 years.

Here's another way of looking at it: would you buy a new car without test driving it? Buy a new suit or dress without trying it on??

We're also not looking for merely for good medical students, we're looking for people who will make good doctors, and 4.0 GPA robots are a dime-a-dozen.

I've seen plenty of posts here from high GPA/high MCAT candidates who were rejected because they had little patient contact experience.

Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

Based upon your stats (AFTER you get in the clinical exposure), I recommend:
Harvard
Stanford
Sinai
Cornell
Columbia
Duke
U VA
U MI
BU
Case
USC/Keck
Mayo
U Cincy
Pitt
USF Morsani
Ohio State
Hofstra
U IA
Albert Einstein
Emory
Rochester
Dartmouth
Miami
Western MI
Jefferson
U VM
Your state school

Thank you for your reply! I honestly see where you're coming from with the "you wouldn't buy a new car without test-driving it", but isn't med school the test drive? The trouble with my location is that I can't just walk into a hospital and ask to volunteer, that's not how things work in my country of residence, and unfortunately I am in a very rural area (think farmland idaho) without any influence from organizations like American red cross, who are open to volunteers. My volunteering over the last 4 years has been at an after-school English program for the youths in my economically depressed (some might say dying) town. I am a US resident (but from a state with no state schools), I guess that wasn't clear before. Since my time abroad ends this summer is there any way I can declare my intent to gain clinical hours during this year before matriculation? I'm 26 years old, so I don't lump myself in the category of 4.0 GPA cookie-cutter undergrads who are trying to make themselves stand out. I have a real story to tell, a lot of unique life experiences, and I think I would be a good fit for the medical profession. Am I really going to be rejected at the door?

 

[JugglesMed]

How do you know you want to be a doctor without much clinical experience?

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Three SDN Adcoms, along with others on here who have gone through the process, have advised you that your application, as it currently stands, will face a significant obstacle if you apply without a history of long-term clinical experience.

@gyngyn has indicated that medical schools don't make or actual lose money educating and training a student for 4 years. Why would a medical school "test drive" an applicant with the hope that they don't drop out because they got in over their heads? That's why having a history of clinical experience pre-matriculation matters. It gives schools assurance that at least the student understands what they are getting into. The "test driving period" is pre-app, medical school is the actual driving, and practicing is the place(s) you are heading to...

Come back to the states after your time abroad ends, take a year to gain clinical volunteer experience or clinical employment. Applying in your late 20's is not going to matter once you matriculate. Check out the nontraditional thread for applicants much much older than you...

 

[kinty]

Three SDN Adcoms, along with others on here who have gone through the process, have advised you that your application, as it currently stands, will face a significant obstacle if you apply without a history of long-term clinical experience.

@gyngyn has indicated that medical schools don't make or actual lose money educating and training a student for 4 years. Why would a medical school "test drive" an applicant with the hope that they don't drop out because they got in over their heads? That's why having a history of clinical experience pre-matriculation matters. It gives schools assurance that at least the student understands what they are getting into. The "test driving period" is pre-app, medical school is the actual driving, and practicing is the place(s) you are heading to...

Come back to the states after your time abroad ends, take a year to gain clinical volunteer experience or clinical employment. Applying in your late 20's is not going to matter once you matriculate. Check out the nontraditional thread for applicants much much older than you...

Thanks for the reply DV-T, I appreciate the info. What is the verdict on declaring you will get experience in a clinical setting during the year between applying and matriculating? Is there a protocol for contacting schools with updates on your new experiences? Have you heard of other applicants doing this?

 

[kinty]

Any personal experience as a patient or family member of a patient? Any experience as the offspring or spouse of a health care professional? Any exposure to health care settings in childhood or adolescence? I'm grasping at straws here. Frankly, you've got everything going for you except clinical exposure and that's a relatively important aspect of any application.

Also, is there any US city with a med school that also has a fairly large non-English speaking population that speaks the language you are fluent in?? If there is a demand for providers who speak that language, your skills may give you a foot in the door but if the language is not in demand (e.g. Mongolian or Kyrgyz) it may not be seen as much of a plus.

Hi Lizzy thanks for the reply! Yes I have had many run-ins with the hospital in my resident country (including surgery) and have a lot of insight on the benefits of national healthcare coverage vs. the U.S.'s private insurance. I actually do have volunteer experience in a hospital, about 100 hours, on top of my weeklong shadowing experience, but it was several years ago (I'm well out of university). It was mostly guiding patients who couldn't move themselves to the proper departments. I don't know if adcoms have an "expiration date" on those kinds of experiences. As for my second language, yes it is labeled as critical and there are many communities on the west coast. It's actually one of my goals to work with patients in a foreign language, so I am looking at many west coast schools.

 

[LizzyM]

Anything that happened after HS graduation can go in the experience section. Activities that were earlier than that can be added but many are of the opinion that you should have fresher experiences than those that happened while you were that young.

If you have something other than personal clinical experience abroad, use it and let the comparisons with the other country come up organically in interviews, if at all.

If you have time to get your foot in the door now and do some translation for non-English speaking patients in a clinical setting, that would be great. Don't overlook urban areas outside of the west coast that may have pockets of non-English speaking patients who could use your expertise.

 

[chaim123]

Thanks for the reply DV-T, I appreciate the info. What is the verdict on declaring you will get experience in a clinical setting during the year between applying and matriculating? Is there a protocol for contacting schools with updates on your new experiences? Have you heard of other applicants doing this?

There is a protocol - most schools allow for updates during the year. However, some schools mandate that this is only post interview. You'll want to be careful - you may be put in the reject pile due to your lack of clinical experience, and then you won't ever get the chance to update them. They are going to see significant clinical experience on your initial app - no one cares about promises that can be easily broken.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

They are going to see significant clinical experience on your initial app - no one cares about promises that can be easily broken.

++1

Adcoms are wise to applicants with low hours attempting to pad their hours by projecting the hours out to August 20xx. It's been done. Therefore, Adcoms extend interview invites based on what an applicant has already done, not what they promise to do...