I took the MCAT 3 times and demonstrated poor judgement. How will this affect me?

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WhyDidIRetake

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My college's premed advisor never told me that retaking a good MCAT score was a bad thing. I just thought the higher the better. It was only once I started reading SDN that I realized I made a huge mistake.

I originally took the MCAT and scored a 519. I was unhappy because I was scoring much higher on practice tests so I stupidly signed up again and took it a month later without studying. I got a 516 the second time. Then I tried to "fix" my score by studying hardcore and taking it a third time. I got a 522 the third time.

How bad does this look?
 
WhyDidIRetake said:
My college's premed advisor never told me that retaking a good MCAT score was a bad thing. I just thought the higher the better. It was only once I started reading SDN that I realized I made a huge mistake.

I originally took the MCAT and scored a 519. I was unhappy because I was scoring much higher on practice tests so I stupidly signed up again and took it a month later without studying. I got a 516 the second time. Then I tried to "fix" my score by studying hardcore and taking it a third time. I got a 522 the third time.

How bad does this look?
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Who retakes a 519?! :wtf:

I definitely would not be surprised if you were rejected for retaking very good unexpired MCAT scores. It's a little hard to say where you'll get IIs but if you apply to the typical schools with 33-35 median MCATs you'll probably get into a few of those.
 
Some potential thoughts that could come to mind from someone who reads your application and see this.

1) They have no idea what they are doing: They dont know what you need to get into medical school or anything about this process in the slightest. They have no idea what a 519 means or where it stands. Not favorable for someone actually applying.

2) They're narcissists: 98th percentile isnt good enough because 99>98. They bath in their ego. Not ideal for a field built around sacrifice and service to others

3) They let others influence them too easily: maybe their buddy got a 522 and they wanted to prove they were smarter them despite only getting a 519. Maybe their parents demanded a 99th percentile no matter what. Maybe they take input from random people who have no idea what they talking about. Doesnt speak well to maturity.

4) They dont think rationally: Get too attached to only a few top schools. Freak out when they see WashU or Penn's median is 38. Cant focus on the big picture in general at all. Maybe they have other extreme/unreasonable interpretations or views. No consistency or structure to their logic/thought process. If you were to make a list of top 10 worst characteristics in a future doctor, all of these would show up in some way or another.

How many if any of these things get associated with you is about as variable as it gets from evaluator to evaluator. All you can do is apply: generally speaking apply broadly enough someone will value the aptitude shown scoring this high over potential concerns they might have about what the retakes say. How you can alleviate potential concerns such as these in interviews and other parts of your app is important.
 
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I cant imagine ever thinking that I'd need a score over an initial 98th percentile. You better have a really good answer lined up because it will be brought up.
 
doctorleospaceman said:
I cant imagine ever thinking that I'd need a score over an initial 98th percentile. You better have a really good answer lined up because it will be brought up.
Click to expand...

Maybe one could say they wanted to get as high of a score as possible so they can earn more merit scholarships...
 
GrapesofRath said:
Some potential thoughts that could come to mind from someone who reads your application and see this.

1) They have no idea what they are doing: They dont know what you need to get into medical school or anything about this process in the slightest. They have no idea what a 519 means or where it stands. Not favorable for someone actually applying.

2) They're narcissists: 98th percentile isnt good enough because 99>98. They bath in their ego. Not ideal for a field built around sacrifice and service to others

3) They let others influence them too easily: maybe their buddy got a 522 and they wanted to prove they were smarter them despite only getting a 519. Maybe their parents demanded they retake because they are perfectionists and 99th percentile is required to them. Maybe they listened to some other random people who have no idea what they are talking about. Doesnt speak well to maturity.

4) They take the idea of being neurotic to a whole other level: they cant let a 519/37 go because it's only one point above average for top schools and they think it's better to be 90th percentile for those schools. Again not ideal for a rigorous and lengthy training process in this field where you wont be perfect, will make mistakes, and have to accept the fact you cant correct or change everything or close to everything you want.

Some people who read your app might think all 4 of these things. Some none. Some might mildly think 1 or 2 of these: some might strongly associate you with one or two of these and it will preclude you from getting a II. All you can do is apply: generally speaking if you apply broadly enough somebody will put more weight in the aptitude it takes to score this high over potential concerns that arise from the decision making from it.
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They may also think "this is going to be THAT guy that tries to get points back on a test."
 
A few people I know who retook very, very good MCAT scores were MCAT tutors. Getting as high of a score as possible will help build your clientele. Maybe if you say you wanted to work for an MCAT test prep company or become an independent MCAT tutor, they might be slightly more understanding.
 
gyngyn said:
If I hadn't seen it so many times, I'd think so too...
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It's kind of amazing this doesnt happen more often when you think about it.

The person who gets a 37 is 0ften the type who's never been average or below average at anything in their life. Go through MSAR, see all these 37 medians and even WashU spotting that big fat 38 and suddenly the thought of "Im below average" come into their head for the first time ever. Nothing good comes from there and retake is the most natural reaction
 
starspells said:
A few people I know who retook very, very good MCAT scores were MCAT tutors. Getting as high of a score as possible will help build your clientele. Maybe if you say you wanted to work for an MCAT test prep company or become an independent MCAT tutor, they might be slightly more understanding.
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If you are taking the MCAT for some purpose other that applying to medical school, take it as many times as you like. The limit is 7 now...
 
gyngyn said:
If you are taking the MCAT for some purpose other that applying to medical school, take it as many times as you like. The limit is 7 now...
Click to expand...

The MCAT can be useful in more ways than one. You could use to get into medical school and become a tutor. I know someone who got a 525 and he charges 150 bucks per hour...
 
I would perceive you as a perfectionist and/or someone with a great deal of hubris. I agree with the learned gyngyn that the MCAT ****** like WashU will hand you IIs. Getting accepted, though, will be 100% on you.




WhyDidIRetake said:
My college's premed advisor never told me that retaking a good MCAT score was a bad thing. I just thought the higher the better. It was only once I started reading SDN that I realized I made a huge mistake.

I originally took the MCAT and scored a 519. I was unhappy because I was scoring much higher on practice tests so I stupidly signed up again and took it a month later without studying. I got a 516 the second time. Then I tried to "fix" my score by studying hardcore and taking it a third time. I got a 522 the third time.

How bad does this look?
Click to expand...
 
starspells said:
The MCAT can be useful in more ways than one. You could use to get into medical school and become a tutor. I know someone who got a 525 and he charges 150 bucks per hour...
Click to expand...

Kaplan starts hiring at 33. Others will hire with lower scores. TPR you are often eligible if you have a 12 subsection.

I get what you are saying in theory a 525 could make you more money than a 519 but let's be real almost nobody who retakes a 519 is doing so because they are worried theyll only get $70/hour tutoring instead of say $100
 
GrapesofRath said:
Kaplan starts hiring at 33. Others will hire with lower scores. TPR you are often eligible if you have a 12 subsection.

I get what you are saying in theory a 525 could make you more money than a 519 but let's be real almost nobody who retakes a 519 is doing so because they are worried theyll only get $70/hour tutoring instead of say $100
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with you. I just feel like it's a better excuse and could actually be believable and understandable. Also certainly sounds better than saying they simply wanted a 99th percentile score instead of 98th percentile score....
 
While I think you're crazy for retaking a 519, I think some of the criticism you've received is a bit harsh. So what if you're a perfectionist? Shouldn't we all strive for the best? Oh wait, I forgot our world marginalizes those who try to be the best these days. Still, I think you're crazy for retaking.
 
redferrari said:
While I think you're crazy for retaking a 519, I think some of the criticism you've received is a bit harsh. So what if you're a perfectionist? Shouldn't we all strive for the best? Oh wait, I forgot our world marginalizes those who try to be the best these days. Still, I think you're crazy for retaking.
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Though it's ok to call them crazy, right? :laugh:
 
Would it look better had he got a 522 the second time? Good judgment?
 
People study hundreds of hours for the MCAT and still never break 508 (old 30). Your priorities have to be seriously screwed up if you retook a 519, not once, but twice. A lot of people, especially from poor families, barely have the time to dedicate months to take this test even once. If I was an adcom I would be questioning a lot of things about your background (family life, personality, maturity, etc... Think of all the extracurriculars you could have been investing in instead of taking this test...

Edit: this is a troll thread lol
 
AirplaneFruit said:
Are they known for wanting high MCATs?
Click to expand...
They (and Penn) have the highest 10th percentile of any school (a 34 / 94th percentile) and sport the same accepted median (37) as places like Harvard and Hopkins. I've heard they offer a scholarship for most of tuition to most admitted students, imo they're trying to throw some money around and play stats to establish themselves up among the big dogs. (Interestingly Vandy undergrad has been doing similarly)

For all you in disbelief of someone retaking a 37, I'll point out something even crazier: in 2011-2013, five people retook scores of 39+ / 100th percentile within the same year! What?? And also 61 people like OP that retook 36-38s.

K6O1ru0.png
 
efle said:
For all you in disbelief of someone retaking a 37, I'll point out something even crazier: in 2011-2013, five people retook scores of 39+ / 100th percentile within the same year! What?? And also 61 people like OP that retook 36-38s.

K6O1ru0.png
Click to expand...

I bet a bunch of them were retaking expired scores.
 
If it comes up in an interview you could just say you had a bet with an intellectual opponent and the only cost to you was your time, "so why not?"
You've consistently done well - this may come off as a little eccentric but might help you dodge the "poor judgement/has no idea what they are doing" card.
-SOB
 
In my personal opinion, getting a higher MCAT score is not something worthwhile at face value. A 522 over a 519 or a 519 over a 516 will not offer you as much of a benefit as will other things that you could have done with your time. Just like anything else, it is a matter of a judgement call requiring a cost and benefit analysis.
 
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The poor judgement in this case isn't that you took the MCAT multiple times. The bad judgement is that you took it the second time without studying.
 
I'm going to take the opposite side of things. Why frame it in the negative? Maybe your hobby is test-taking, you enjoy the thrill and stress of a high stakes exam. Through 3 exams you have shown you consistently score in the top percentages. You put in the work and took an exam most people only take one. All the power to you... There's definitely ways to frame this because a poor lack in judgement. If you were confident you were going to score better then money and time aside, why not try?
 
huskies403 said:
I'm going to take the opposite side of things. Why frame it in the negative? Maybe your hobby is test-taking, you enjoy the thrill and stress of a high stakes exam. Through 3 exams you have shown you consistently score in the top percentages. You put in the work and took an exam most people only take one. All the power to you... There's definitely ways to frame this because a poor lack in judgement. If you were confident you were going to score better then money and time aside, why not try?
Click to expand...

There is nothing gain from retaking a super high score, but certainly something to lose if you don't do as well on the second go. That is why you should not try.
 
redferrari said:
While I think you're crazy for retaking a 519, I think some of the criticism you've received is a bit harsh. So what if you're a perfectionist? Shouldn't we all strive for the best? Oh wait, I forgot our world marginalizes those who try to be the best these days. Still, I think you're crazy for retaking.
Click to expand...
Self improvement is valuable, not perfectionism. OP could have used the time he wasted retaking an excellent score (twice!), to do something actually useful.
Perfectionism is among the traits that we are looking to avoid.
 
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Med Ed said:
There is nothing gain from retaking a super high score, but certainly something to lose if you don't do as well on the second go. That is why you should not try.
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We don't interview applicants who re-take (unexpired) scores this high, no matter what they score on the re-take.
 
StraightOuttaBrooklyn said:
If it comes up in an interview you could just say you had a bet with an intellectual opponent and the only cost to you was your time, "so why not?"
You've consistently done well - this may come off as a little eccentric but might help you dodge the "poor judgement/has no idea what they are doing" card.
-SOB
Click to expand...

huskies403 said:
I'm going to take the opposite side of things. Why frame it in the negative? Maybe your hobby is test-taking, you enjoy the thrill and stress of a high stakes exam. Through 3 exams you have shown you consistently score in the top percentages. You put in the work and took an exam most people only take one. All the power to you... There's definitely ways to frame this because a poor lack in judgement. If you were confident you were going to score better then money and time aside, why not try?
Click to expand...

Ah... The Trumpian double-down.
(Never mind that it's not true that these were your reasons)

Edit: Bottom line, you'll have to either admit to foolishness, confess to hubris, or attempt to deflect with even more hubris. At 22, foolishness is, I think, more forgivable.
 
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Lawper said:
What about for an applicant who went from a 517 to a 527? Still red flag for retaking? Even if the 517 has a score breakdown of 132/132/121/132 (121 is in biology)
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If I recall, Canadian MD applications requires a pretty high Verbal to be competitive, so people would sometimes need to retake mid-30s due to a weaker verbal. Exceptions to every rule!
 
desiredmembername123 said:
If they retook a 121 I cant imagine anyone blaming them.
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efle said:
If I recall, Canadian MD applications requires a pretty high Verbal to be competitive, so people would sometimes need to retake mid-30s due to a weaker verbal. Exceptions to every rule!
Click to expand...

Meaning that there is a valid reason to retake a mid-30s score: a very low subsection score. If the AAMC eliminates the need for subsection scores and reports only the cumulative score in terms of percentiles, retaking an 80th-percentile score would be prohibited. This would make the MCAT a one-shot deal like the USMLEs
 
DokterMom said:
Ah... The Trumpian double-down.
(Never mind that it's not true that these were your reasons)

Edit: Bottom line, you'll have to either admit to foolishness, confess to hubris, or attempt to deflect with even more hubris. At 22, foolishness is, I think, more forgivable.
Click to expand...

You know what, you're absolutely right. I should not be encouraging dishonesty on a medical school application - the suggested was only half-hearted, but given that this is the internet and inflection/cadence can be interpreted differently in the written, I take back what I said - lying on a medical school application = no bueno.
 
Lawper said:
If the AAMC eliminates the need for subsection scores and reports only the cumulative score in terms of percentiles
Click to expand...
But it's probably good that a 14/6/14 breakdown and 12/10/12 can be distinguished
 
efle said:
But it's probably good that a 14/6/14 breakdown and 12/10/12 can be distinguished
Click to expand...

Is that really important? The USMLE scores that the adcoms love comparing MCAT scores to aren't broken down into subsection scores. If adcoms are using MCAT scores to make such comparisons as well as making them a one-shot deal, it's only reasonable to report said scores only as cumulative percentiles to minimize variability.

The only subsection score that seems to matter is the biology score, given its rather high correlation to medical school performance. Curiously, interview performance is better correlated to clinical success than the verbal scores, according to a survey provided by UMiami Med. Subsections provide more variation than necessary, which allows test takers to retake mid-30s scores that wouldn't be necessary in the first place.
 
Lawper said:
Is that really important? The USMLE scores that the adcoms love comparing MCAT scores to aren't broken down into subsection scores. If adcoms are using MCAT scores to make such comparisons as well as making them a one-shot deal, it's only reasonable to report said scores only as cumulative percentiles to minimize variability.

The only subsection score that seems to matter is the biology score, given its rather high correlation to medical school performance. Curiously, interview performance is better correlated to clinical success than the verbal scores, according to a survey provided by UMiami Med. Subsections provide more variation than necessary, which allows test takers to retake mid-30s scores that wouldn't be necessary in the first place.
Click to expand...

The difference between a 12 and a 14 is pretty negligible and can be just due to variation of content on test date. However, a 6 and a 10 are significantly different. If we didn't look at subsections, high scores in one area could completely cover up deficiencies in others.

This is coming from a guy who scored 512: 128/124/129/131. I always knew I would score worse in CARS though based on my FLs, so I am planning to keep this score.

My 99th percentile 131 P/S seriously carried my total score (Biospych major). If I had 1-2 more questions correct I would have had another full point from the jump to the 100th percentile.

To be honest I would have much rather had a 512: 128/126/129/129. I hope you're right though about the biology section being the most important.
 
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Lawper said:
What about for an applicant who went from a 517 to a 527? Still red flag for retaking? Even if the 517 has a score breakdown of 132/132/121/132 (121 is in biology)
Click to expand...
This would be a vanishingly rare distribution.
 
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