MD I want to go to Harvard, but...low sGPA.

[Sutter]

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Hi, Sutter is my name, in hindsight I realize that it was stupid to use it as my username. Anyways, I graduated Cum Laude from a very unknown college in 2013 (Loved it still!). I just submitted an application to Medical School.

May, 2013: Graduated with an sGPA of 3.41, cGPA of 3.65, MCAT of 22.

• EC's in College: President of Biology Club, Newspaper Editor, Honor Council Member, Resident Advisor

Post-Graduate Year 1: After graduating, I worked at Booz Allen Hamilton as a Consultant. I concurrently took 32 credits of coursework at UDC, and raised my cGPA to 3.72, sGPA 3.60, MCAT 37 (13/12/12). I also started volunteering as an HIV/AIDS counselor, and researching at Georgetown Medical Center (Got two Publications). I left my job at Booz after a year, and traveled to India as an Cataract Surgery Volunteer.

Post-Graduate Year 2: This summer, I won a scholarship at Columbia, and in two months will be matriculating to Columbia's M.S. in Biomedical Engineering. I've just returned from India, and will be leaving soon to volunteer at a HIV/AIDS maternity clinic in South Africa. This is a 2-month appointment as a clinic head, through the organization I've worked for in D.C. for a year.

Research: I have (3) publications, 2 science, 1 education.


I know it's stupid, but I want to go to Harvard. It's my dream school. I was an unmotivated student in Undergrad, and then worked my tush off for a long time. Personally, I'd much rather pursue the MD/PhD program at HMS, but I feel like my chances are absolutely nil at that. Chances for regular MD? MD Schools over? I'm in-state for UNC, and would love to go there as well.

 

[Lawpy]

While adcoms will see your 22, it is viewed as an old score that has no bearing on your application. The 37 coupled with a very strong upward GPA trend (and good GPA and ok sGPA) set your foot in any medical school you want You also have good research.

Some questions

1. Do you have any clinical and volunteering exposure in the US?

2. Do you have any US shadowing?

3. Is your Columbia MS only 1 year? (Just making sure)

You can apply to Harvard but don't invest your hopes in that school since dozens of people with very strong apps get rejected. But you are good to go with MD schools if you apply broadly but smartly

 

[mw18]

Rule number one of the two rules I tell to people applying.

1. Don't have a dream school.

Every year they get about 7500 apps, and for many of them it's their dream school. They won't all have numbers like yours, but all but probably around 200 won't get an acceptance. I'm not an expert, but with your excellent mcat (presumably after dedicated study, as opposed to the first), your perseverance, and your dedication to the profession I would say you're an excellent candidate everywhere. Especially UNC, which is a very special place.

 

[Sutter]

While adcoms will see your 22, it is viewed as an old score that has no bearing on your application. The 37 coupled with a very strong upward GPA trend (and good GPA and ok sGPA) set your foot in any medical school you want You also have good research.

Some questions

1. Do you have any clinical and volunteering exposure in the US?

2. Do you have any US shadowing?

3. Is your Columbia MS only 1 year? (Just making sure)

You can apply to Harvard but don't invest your hopes in that school since dozens of people with very strong apps get rejected. But you are good to go with MD schools if you apply broadly but smartly

Hey, thank you for your response, I really appreciate it. It's 2:44 AM in my apartment in D.C., and I'm currently packing my stuff to move into my parent's for the summer. So I appreciate the nocturnal response, keeping my energy up!

1) I do have clinical and volunteering experience in the U.S.

• 1 Yr as an HIV/AIDS volunteer in D.C.
• ~300 Hrs as PEDS Volunteer, assisting psychiatrists that deal with postpartum depression
• Volunteered for BAH Food Pantry Initiative in D.C.

2) Yes, I shadowed an internist, and an ophthalmologist.

3). Yes, My Columbia M.S. is a research based Engineering Master's, only 1 year.

 

[Sutter]

Rule number one of the two rules I tell to people applying.

1. Don't have a dream school.

Every year they get about 7500 apps, and for many of them it's their dream school. They won't all have numbers like yours, but all but probably around 200 won't get an acceptance. I'm not an expert, but with your excellent mcat (presumably after dedicated study, as opposed to the first), your perseverance, and your dedication to the profession I would say you're an excellent candidate everywhere. Especially UNC, which is a very special place.

Yeah I'm crazy about UNC! Part of this confusion is because my fiancée is moving to Booz Offices in New York. I got admitted to Caltech's engineering program too, where I originally wanted to go, but long distance didn't sit well with either of us.

Anyways, if and when she does seek a transfer because of my medical school, the main offices are in Boston, D.C., basically metropolitan cities. Not much happening in Chapel Hill.

In the end, I can't imagine wanting a school more than Harvard, and secondly, UNC. Gah, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out! Haha just gotta keep telling myself that.

Thank you for your advice, I know it's pretty foolish to have my heart set on something. And, when I don't get an HMS interview, it'll be tough haha 🙁

 

[mw18]

Honestly, admissions is kind of a crapshoot. You just have to cast a wide net and fall in the love with the school that loves you.

 

[deleted393595]

Research: I have (3) publications, 2 science, 1 education.

A point to clarify: How significant was your authorship on those pubs?

 

[Banco]

22 --> 37 is an amazing MCAT increase.

While we can never say anything concrete about schools like harvard, I think you have a good chance of getting accepted somewhere.

 

[Sutter]

A point to clarify: How significant was your authorship on those pubs?

I've been on about 10 pubs, but only first authored 3. I think it's useless to mention the other 7 because I was just a lab assistant.

I will mention my research thesis at Columbia when I begin it.

 

[Sutter]

22 --> 37 is an amazing MCAT increase.

While we can never say anything concrete about schools like harvard, I think you have a good chance of getting accepted somewhere.

Thank you, I know a retake is bad, especially when the first score was so low. I definitely needed to learn how to study well to attain a 37, which is a lot harder, and a very serious test of human will.

It's weird. When I was in College, I'd do a lackluster amount of studying without much trouble because it was my job. But after I graduated, it became a great deal more difficult to motivate myself to study, to a greater degree than what I'd known before, and have a full-time job totally unrelated to my ambitions.

Booz was great though.

 

[Goro]

You're a research stud, that's for sure, and you've successfully reinvented yourself, and there are MD schools that rewarsd reinvention.

However, I simply don't know if Harvard is one of them.

But Columbia, UCSF, Duke, Case, and Vanderbilt are!

My advice: if you want to try Harvard, send them an app. But apply broadly and strategically. Definitely hit your state school.

Hi, Sutter is my name, in hindsight I realize that it was stupid to use it as my username. Anyways, I graduated Cum Laude from a very unknown college in 2013 (Loved it still!). I just submitted an application to Medical School.

May, 2013: Graduated with an sGPA of 3.41, cGPA of 3.65, MCAT of 22.

• EC's in College: President of Biology Club, Newspaper Editor, Honor Council Member, Resident Advisor

Post-Graduate Year 1: After graduating, I worked at Booz Allen Hamilton as a Consultant. I concurrently took 32 credits of coursework at UDC, and raised my cGPA to 3.72, sGPA 3.60, MCAT 37 (13/12/12). I also started volunteering as an HIV/AIDS counselor, and researching at Georgetown Medical Center (Got two Publications). I left my job at Booz after a year, and traveled to India as an Cataract Surgery Volunteer.

Post-Graduate Year 2: This summer, I won a scholarship at Columbia, and in two months will be matriculating to Columbia's M.S. in Biomedical Engineering. I've just returned from India, and will be leaving soon to volunteer at a HIV/AIDS maternity clinic in South Africa. This is a 2-month appointment as a clinic head, through the organization I've worked for in D.C. for a year.

Research: I have (3) publications, 2 science, 1 education.


I know it's stupid, but I want to go to Harvard. It's my dream school. I was an unmotivated student in Undergrad, and then worked my tush off for a long time. Personally, I'd much rather pursue the MD/PhD program at HMS, but I feel like my chances are absolutely nil at that. Chances for regular MD? MD Schools over? I'm in-state for UNC, and would love to go there as well.

 

[Lawpy]

I've been on about 10 pubs, but only first authored 3. I think it's useless to mention the other 7 because I was just a lab assistant.

I will mention my research thesis at Columbia when I begin it.

You should include all your 10 pubs. Remember, top schools are like hot women, and your research record will make them fall in love with you.

 

[mw18]

You should include all your 10 pubs. Remember, top schools are like hot women, and your research record will make them fall in love with you.

Hot women do love a good research record.

 

[Jepstein30]

While adcoms will see your 22, it is viewed as an old score that has no bearing on your application. The 37 coupled with a very strong upward GPA trend (and good GPA and ok sGPA) set your foot in any medical school you want You also have good research.

Some questions

1. Do you have any clinical and volunteering exposure in the US?

2. Do you have any US shadowing?

3. Is your Columbia MS only 1 year? (Just making sure)

You can apply to Harvard but don't invest your hopes in that school since dozens of people with very strong apps get rejected. But you are good to go with MD schools if you apply broadly but smartly

That is absolutely not true unless something has drastically changed in the year since I've applied.

Some schools will average all scores they will see. Others will take the most recent or best. Each have their own policies. Saying that an old score will have no effect on an application is far from true.

It may not hurt OP that much given his other credentials but should figure out each school's policies when applying.

 

[Lawpy]

Hot women do love a good research record.

Correct. Better research record means lots of grant money, and hot women always love guys with tons of money.

Now i escape before @DokterMom sees this and throws me out the window!

That is absolutely not true unless something has drastically changed in the year since I've applied.

Some schools will average all scores they will see. Others will take the most recent or best. Each have their own policies. Saying that an old score will have no effect on an application is far from true.

It may not hurt OP that much given his other credentials but should figure out each school's policies when applying.

It makes no sense for schools to average the scores given that a 37 was achieved long after a 22. And the very significant upward MCAT trend rejects the need to average.

 

[Jepstein30]

It makes no sense for schools to average the scores given that a 37 was achieved long after a 22. And the significant upward MCAT trend rejects the need to average.

That's not how it works. Schools don't pick and choose when to apply their own regulations.

Also, it was a year apart.. hardly "long after".

You can talk about what makes sense or not but it's irrelevant. Many schools average scores. That's just how they do it, right or wrong.

https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/faq/421668/how-are-multiple-mcat-scores-used.html

 

[Jepstein30]

Here's a few examples from google as to how schools handle multiple MCAT scores. Info is usually found in their FAQ or by contacting them directly.

Tufts: http://medicine.tufts.edu/Admissions/MD-Application-Process/MCAT

Multiple MCAT Scores

Many applicants to TUSM apply with more than one set of MCAT scores. Our policy is to consider the two most recent sets of scores and note the higher MCAT total of the two sets.

NYMC: https://www.nymc.edu/Academics/SchoolOfMedicine/Admissions/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.html

How are multiple MCAT scores viewed?

Many applicants take the MCAT more than once. This is not considered a liability. We attach greatest importance to the most recent scores, although we will review the most recent last two sets of scores.

Temple: http://www.temple.edu/medicine/admissions/faqs.htm#seven

Q: How do you evaluate multiple MCAT scores?


A: We consider the most recent MCAT results

 

[Lawpy]

That's not how it works. Schools don't pick and choose when to apply their own regulations.

Also, it was a year apart.. hardly "long after".

You can talk about what makes sense or not but it's irrelevant. Many schools average scores. That's just how they do it, right or wrong.

https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/faq/421668/how-are-multiple-mcat-scores-used.html

There was a thread that discusses the school policy and for the schools OP interested (the top tiers), the highest score is taken into account. This only makes sense especially when very significant MCAT trend is seen, so dismissing the 37 because of a previous 22 is only misleading.

Although this also means OP should not apply at the low and low-mid tier schools where averaging is ironically common (not that it matters because these schools aren't research focused)

 

[Jepstein30]

There was a thread that discusses the school policy and for the schools OP interested (the top tiers), the highest score is taken into account. This only makes sense especially when very significant MCAT trend is seen, so dismissing the 37 because of a previous 22 is only misleading.

Although this also means OP should not apply at the low and low-mid tier schools where averaging is ironically common (not that it matters because these schools aren't research focused)

And that may be the policy at those tier schools. My only point was making the statement that it won't matter at all was misleading. Never myself dismissed the OP's accomplishment. Great score, obviously.

I can't find any information on how Harvard views multiple scores. The OP should carefully look into each school's policy before applying as he will fare much better at schools that only view the most recent set of scores or at least heavily weight towards them.

 

[mw18]

Any school that has a hard and fast rule about averaging scores would seemingly take themselves out of the running for a number of very good applicants. If the MCAT is taken lightly, a poor score (OP's 22) will happen. However, averaging the score and treating OP's MCAT like it's a 29 or 30 obviously doesn't do justice to the type of applicant they could interview. A policy of noting both or all scores but emphasizing the most recent or highest score (I could see having your most recent score being lower as detrimental) seems to be the most pragmatic way of dealing with this. I understand that if someone gets a 28 and retakes and gets a 31 they may not be treated like all other 31s, but getting a 37 is almost two standard deviations above the mean and takes a great deal of effort and intelligence (Not at all that other scores don't require the same, my point is just that one does not trip into a 37).

 

[22031 Alum]

If I could give you one piece of advice, it's to open your mind to the idea of going somewhere not Harvard. Even with your stats, you simply may be one of the many qualified applicants who doesn't get in. Or, you may get in, but realize another school is your dream school. You'll be fine!

 

[Sutter]

Wow, thanks everyone for all of your advice. I'm going to not set my heart on Harvard, and try to be as open to the application process as I can be! I'll definitely be sure to update once I have a decision.

 

[ZedsDed]

There was a thread that discusses the school policy and for the schools OP interested (the top tiers), the highest score is taken into account. This only makes sense especially when very significant MCAT trend is seen, so dismissing the 37 because of a previous 22 is only misleading.

Although this also means OP should not apply at the low and low-mid tier schools where averaging is ironically common (not that it matters because these schools aren't research focused)

gyngyn has often pointed out that even if school X officially only takes the highest score into account, there is nothing to stop individual AdCom members from taking all scores into consideration, which they often do. Whether or not this is "fair" is irrelevant.

 

[deleted480308]

you did not raise a 3.4gpa to a 3.7 with 32 credits

 

[Lawpy]

gyngyn has often pointed out that even if school X officially only takes the highest score into account, there is nothing to stop individual AdCom members from taking all scores into consideration, which they often do. Whether or not this is "fair" is irrelevant.

I'm not talking fairness. I'm talking what makes sense. Of course all scores will be available, and of course adcoms will see them. So it's only reasonable to be amazed in an upswing from 22 to 37. What's irrational is throwing the 37 out the window because of a prior 22. The difference is too significant to be dismissed as random chance.

you did not raise a 3.4gpa to a 3.7 with 32 credits

What? He went from a 3.65 cGPA to a 3.72 cGPA. The 3.4 sGPA probably went to a 3.6 assuming OP wasn't a science major during college.

May, 2013: Graduated with an sGPA of 3.41, cGPA of 3.65, MCAT of 22...raised my cGPA to 3.72, sGPA 3.60,

 

[mathnerd88]

Something people have to realize about Harvard...they're very name heavy. It is pretty hard for a student that's not from a top 10 or 20 school to get into Harvard.

This is someone who speaks from experience and works with HMS doctors in research at Mass Gen. The ones I know who are in HMS either graduated from Harvard or Yale. It is pretty rare to hear from a student who got into HMS who wasn't from an amazing school.

 

[GrapesofRath]

That is absolutely not true unless something has drastically changed in the year since I've applied.

Some schools will average all scores they will see. Others will take the most recent or best. Each have their own policies. Saying that an old score will have no effect on an application is far from true.

It may not hurt OP that much given his other credentials but should figure out each school's policies when applying.

There is no question a 37 MCAT by itself is not in anyway viewed the same as a 37 with a 22 the first time. How differently they are viewed varies tremendously but the single strong showing is clearly much more favorable.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Any school that has a hard and fast rule about averaging scores would seemingly take themselves out of the running for a number of very good applicants. If the MCAT is taken lightly, a poor score (OP's 22) will happen. However, averaging the score and treating OP's MCAT like it's a 29 or 30 obviously doesn't do justice to the type of applicant they could interview. A policy of noting both or all scores but emphasizing the most recent or highest score (I could see having your most recent score being lower as detrimental) seems to be the most pragmatic way of dealing with this. I understand that if someone gets a 28 and retakes and gets a 31 they may not be treated like all other 31s, but getting a 37 is almost two standard deviations above the mean and takes a great deal of effort and intelligence (Not at all that other scores don't require the same, my point is just that one does not trip into a 37).

Taking the MCAT lightly is a good way to not get into med school. Regardless of what you do after its really poor decision making and that will be noted in someway.

gyngyn and others have said in the past that emphasizing the most recent score has different meanings to different schools. For example what gyngyn said is there are a number of schools who say they emphasize the most recent one but in reality what happens is they only use the higher score for calculating their class averages and still definitely consider the first poorer score.

 

[Jepstein30]

Any school that has a hard and fast rule about averaging scores would seemingly take themselves out of the running for a number of very good applicants. If the MCAT is taken lightly, a poor score (OP's 22) will happen. However, averaging the score and treating OP's MCAT like it's a 29 or 30 obviously doesn't do justice to the type of applicant they could interview. A policy of noting both or all scores but emphasizing the most recent or highest score (I could see having your most recent score being lower as detrimental) seems to be the most pragmatic way of dealing with this. I understand that if someone gets a 28 and retakes and gets a 31 they may not be treated like all other 31s, but getting a 37 is almost two standard deviations above the mean and takes a great deal of effort and intelligence (Not at all that other scores don't require the same, my point is just that one does not trip into a 37).

Taking the MCAT likely IS the very problem that policies like averaging scores are trying to detect. That's the point. It shows immaturity, recklessness, poor decision making or poor study habits. Things not commonly associated with success in medical school. For instance, you don't just get second chances as easily with Step 1 like you can on the MCAT. There's no time or room for foolishness.

Again, the 37 isn't being dismissed. It's being put into a context. It's likely better than scoring a 30-32 the first time around.. but maybe it's not as good as scoring a 35 the first time around. Schools that are taking people with such scores can afford to be picky so it definitely matters here.

Recovering from a 22 to a 37 answers many of the concerns raised above but doesn't remove them completely from consideration.

I'm not talking fairness. I'm talking what makes sense. Of course all scores will be available, and of course adcoms will see them. So it's only reasonable to be amazed in an upswing from 22 to 37. What's irrational is throwing the 37 out the window because of a prior 22. The difference is too significant to be dismissed as random chance.



What? He went from a 3.65 cGPA to a 3.72 cGPA. The 3.4 sGPA probably went to a 3.6 assuming OP wasn't a science major during college.

No-one has said they will dismiss the 37. They will view it context as having a previous poor score.

There will be benefits (look at how much they can recover from failure) and there will be drawbacks (look at how foolish they were the first time around).

Regardless, a 37 alone will always look better. How much a previous poor score will hurt you depends on the rest of your application, the school's policies and the person reading your application.

You keep talking about what makes sense TO YOU.. and I'm not sure why. An upswing from 22 to 37 is amazing, absolutely. It won't be looked at like a 37 alone will be (also, amazing) though. So advising someone that there application would be viewed as if they scored a 37 alone, as you did, is absolutely wrong.

Like I said, the OP should definitely apply to any school he wants.. I don't think the door is shut anywhere. But should be aware that his outcomes may vary based on their multiple MCAT policies. Specifically, I'd recommend he finds a half-dozen mid-tier schools that do NOT average MCAT scores to serve as good 'safety' schools.

 

[Lawpy]

No-one has said they will dismiss the 37. They will view it context as having a previous poor score.

There will be benefits (look at how much they can recover from failure) and there will be drawbacks (look at how foolish they were the first time around).

Regardless, a 37 alone will always look better. How much a previous poor score will hurt you depends on the rest of your application, the school's policies and the person reading your application.

Why are you arguing with me if we're ultimately agreeing on the same thing? Yes, all MCAT scores are seen and adcoms can make a decision based on that, but if anything, the benefits outweigh the risks. That cannot be disputed (unless adcoms seriously think a 22 is lethal and flat out ignore the trend), and OP will still be successful even with two scores.

You keep talking about what makes sense TO YOU.. and I'm not sure why.

Um no. I'm only discussing what is reasonable to anyone, not just me.

An upswing from 22 to 37 is amazing, absolutely. It won't be looked at like a 37 alone will be (also, amazing) though. So advising someone that there application would be viewed as if they scored a 37 alone, as you did, is absolutely wrong.

Again, the difference is very substantial that it is evident that a 22 in the first attempt was a fluke and poor decision making. Unless adcoms are desperate to trim their classes down and search for any excuse to reject applicants, OP will be fine. Obviously one score is better than two (because who wants to waste time and money dealing with a test twice?). From an outsider's perspective, the results are very similar.

Like I said, the OP should definitely apply to any school he wants.. I don't think the door is shut anywhere.

Then why are you arguing with me on a minor detail that has nothing to do with what OP wants?

But should be aware that his outcomes may vary based on their multiple MCAT policies. Specifically, I'd recommend he finds a half-dozen mid-tier schools that do NOT average MCAT scores to serve as good 'safety' schools.

Which is what I just said before.

Let's summarize this up. Yes one score is better than two scores, but punishing an applicant with a higher score because of a previous low score is irrational. Will adcoms view the applicant of being careless/apathetic etc. on the first score? Perhaps, but why would that matter if the applicant did substantially better in the recent/best attempt? It's equivalent to punishing an applicant for a poor start despite sustaining a massive upward GPA swing and ultimately applying with a competitive GPA.

We agree that OP should apply to medical schools that take the recent/highest score. For OP's concern, Harvard, UNC and others don't average under current policies. What is important is that OP will still be fine in applying wherever he goes despite the 22 setback long ago.

 

[Jepstein30]

Christ sake, no-one is arguing with anyone. It's called a discussion.

Don't blatantly say incorrect things in the future (such as having "no bearing") and we can avoid discussion.

Very glad to see you know how every adcom in the country operates though. What you aren't getting is that schools like Harvard can afford to look for any excuse to reject applicants.. such as a single instance of poor decision making.

That's the point.

 

[Lawpy]

Christ sake, no-one is arguing with anyone. It's called a discussion.

Don't blatantly say incorrect things in the future and we can avoid discussion.

Very glad to see you know how every adcom in the country operates though.

It's a discussion emerging from nitpicking. Not a good way to start.

And my case lies on the sole assumption that adcoms reasonably evaluate an application. From what I have seen, it is a valid assumption.

But we agree so the discussion can close.

 

[Jepstein30]

It's a discussion emerging from nitpicking. Not a good way to start.

And my case lies on the sole assumption that adcoms reasonably evaluate an application. From what I have seen, it is a valid assumption.

And your n =1 is outweighed by the experiences of many others and statements directly from adcoms. Your reasonable evaluation isn't the same as everyone's reasonable evaluation.

Again, schools like Harvard can afford to reject applicants for things like a single instance of poor decision making.

If you think that taking exception to blatantly incorrect statements like a previous poor sore having "no bearing" on an application is nitpicking, you really don't get how applications to elite institutions work. Hint: It's the very definition of nitpicking.

 

[Lawpy]

And your n =1 is outweighed by the experiences of many others and statements directly from adcoms.

Again, schools like Harvard can afford to reject applicants for things like a single instance of poor decision making.

If you think that taking exception to blatantly incorrect statements like a previous poor sore having "no bearing" on an application is nitpicking, you really don't get how applications to elite institutions work.

This isn't n=1. It's a standard premise for any application process. Adcoms don't sort through applications chaotically.

And schools like Harvard can reject flawless applicants because they are "simply too many good applicants". It's foolish to focus on only one school, and OP conceded that it's just his dream (and that's fine). But it's incorrect to say that schools like Harvard reject people who took the MCAT twice (the school-specific discussion forums address this).

I can't help it if you cherrypick and misinterpret what I said before. But now, you're just entertaining the "discussion" for no particular reason, when we and everyone else here agreed that OP will be fine if he applies smartly and avoids schools that average the scores.

 

[Jepstein30]

This isn't n=1. It's a standard premise for any application process. Adcoms don't sort through applications chaotically.

And schools like Harvard can reject flawless applicants because they are "simply too many good applicants". It's foolish to focus on only one school, and OP conceded that it's just his dream (and that's fine). But it's incorrect to say that schools like Harvard reject people who took the MCAT twice (the school-specific discussion forums address this).

I can't help it if you cherrypick and misinterpret what I said before. But now, you're just entertaining the "discussion" for no particular reason, when we and everyone else here agreed that OP will be fine if he applies smartly and avoids schools that average the scores.

No-one said that. I said they can afford to.. hence they look at subtle such things and consider them.

I'm not really misinterpreting anything either. You seem to have changed your stance on it having 'no bearing' though so agreed, discussion has passed its usefulness.

 

[Sutter]

you did not raise a 3.4gpa to a 3.7 with 32 credits

I was an Education major in College. As @Lawper stated, my cGPA increase was small, but my sGPA increase was pretty substantial.

 

[Sutter]

Something people have to realize about Harvard...they're very name heavy. It is pretty hard for a student that's not from a top 10 or 20 school to get into Harvard.

This is someone who speaks from experience and works with HMS doctors in research at Mass Gen. The ones I know who are in HMS either graduated from Harvard or Yale. It is pretty rare to hear from a student who got into HMS who wasn't from an amazing school.

Really? That's interesting to hear for sure.

 

[mathnerd88]

Really? That's interesting to hear for sure.

I'm not saying it is impossible, but they definitely favor students from top schools, and most of their class reflects that.

 

[mw18]

.

 

[ThHardToast]

Hi, Sutter is my name, in hindsight I realize that it was stupid to use it as my username. Anyways, I graduated Cum Laude from a very unknown college in 2013 (Loved it still!). I just submitted an application to Medical School.

May, 2013: Graduated with an sGPA of 3.41, cGPA of 3.65, MCAT of 22.

• EC's in College: President of Biology Club, Newspaper Editor, Honor Council Member, Resident Advisor

Post-Graduate Year 1: After graduating, I worked at Booz Allen Hamilton as a Consultant. I concurrently took 32 credits of coursework at UDC, and raised my cGPA to 3.72, sGPA 3.60, MCAT 37 (13/12/12). I also started volunteering as an HIV/AIDS counselor, and researching at Georgetown Medical Center (Got two Publications). I left my job at Booz after a year, and traveled to India as an Cataract Surgery Volunteer.

Post-Graduate Year 2: This summer, I won a scholarship at Columbia, and in two months will be matriculating to Columbia's M.S. in Biomedical Engineering. I've just returned from India, and will be leaving soon to volunteer at a HIV/AIDS maternity clinic in South Africa. This is a 2-month appointment as a clinic head, through the organization I've worked for in D.C. for a year.

Research: I have (3) publications, 2 science, 1 education.


I know it's stupid, but I want to go to Harvard. It's my dream school. I was an unmotivated student in Undergrad, and then worked my tush off for a long time. Personally, I'd much rather pursue the MD/PhD program at HMS, but I feel like my chances are absolutely nil at that. Chances for regular MD? MD Schools over? I'm in-state for UNC, and would love to go there as well.

UNC has to be the move bro. That's a great school, and it's super cheap for you. You are splitting hairs between HMS and UNC, and Boston is going to cost you way more. Who knows, maybe if you do well enough, you can get a residency at HMS afterward.

 

[Sutter]

UNC has to be the move bro. That's a great school, and it's super cheap for you. You are splitting hairs between HMS and UNC, and Boston is going to cost you way more. Who knows, maybe if you do well enough, you can get a residency at HMS afterward.

Yeah I've been thinking of that lately. Maybe I can just redeem myself with working hard in Medical School, and getting a dream school residency.

Boston is expensive, we want children within the year, and living near my family would be a Godsend for both of us when we do have kids.

Let me just say, college was a cakewalk, and life is complicated as heck bruh.

 

[Jepstein30]

A poor score does show that, but I think what it takes to improve that score 15 points to a very good score shows characteristics that more than compensate for the negative ones. That is probably five times the average improvement and it shows a level of commitment that is likely beyond that of someone who took the test once and did well. That person has never had their resolve tested and then fought through it. Whereas someone like OP has probably given thought to giving up, but showed resolve, learned a ton, fought through it and got a score that 98 people out of every 100 who take the test don't get to (and one many wouldn't get to even with his resolve.)

Oh, absolutely. I even said something similarly in one of my posts. There are both benefits (resolve/perseverance) and drawbacks (poor decison making/recklessness) involved. In most cases, the drawbacks far outweigh the benefits. Here, it's probably the best case scenario... and they probably cancel it out at most.

I don't think it more than compensates for the drawbacks though. End of the day, it's still a scar.. it's just healed really, really well. It doesn't suddenly disappear. Still there if you look hard enough.. and elite schools will look hard enough. It's more of a question as to whether the rest of his app will compensate and there's a strong argument but you never know.

I think many mid-tier schools will take a shot at OP purely because of what you've said. I just don't expect the elite institutions to be as open. Could he get in somewhere? Absolutely.. he has the stats and the experiences. It's just incredibly hard to get into one in the first place.. let alone with a slight scar.

 

[mw18]

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[deleted577188]

@Jepstein30

@Lawper loves to use his know-it-all mentality and n=1 experience when giving advice. Don't entertain him.

 

[jb94mg]

@Jepstein30

@Lawper loves to use his know-it-all mentality and n=1 experience when giving advice. Don't entertain him.

You can't understand physics without calculus, though! You just can't...at all! I don't even have to argue for the truth of that claim! 😉

 

[Lawpy]

@Jepstein30

@Lawper loves to use his know-it-all mentality and n=1 experience when giving advice. Don't entertain him.

You can't understand physics without calculus, though! You just can't...at all! I don't even have to argue for the truth of that claim! 😉

Yay! I'm popular!

I'm honored that physics is my batsignal, so thanks!

 

[Banco]

Yeah I've been thinking of that lately. Maybe I can just redeem myself with working hard in Medical School, and getting a dream school residency.

Boston is expensive, we want children within the year, and living near my family would be a Godsend for both of us when we do have kids.

Let me just say, college was a cakewalk, and life is complicated as heck bruh.

I think its important for you to realize that Harvard is one school, and there are many other schools of an equal or similar caliber that can provide your with the education, clinical training, and research opportunities that harvard can (most of the top 25 are amazing institutions, including UNC). Getting fixated on one school in this process is just unhealthy and a recipe for disappointment. And you don't need to "redeem" yourself if you don't get into harvard!