I Wish....

[MADD!!!]

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That if MD students want to apply for DO residencies, then programs can also have the option to say "We only accept COMLEX scores." So if an MD really wants to enter a DO program, they would also feel the need to take both the COMLEX and USMLE to be most competitive for AOA residencies.

Thoughts? Possibilities? Just an idea... 😛

 

[AlteredScale]

That if MD students want to apply for DO residencies, then programs can also have the option to say "We only accept COMLEX scores." So if an MD really wants to enter a DO program, they would also feel the need to take both the COMLEX and USMLE to be most competitive for AOA residencies.

Thoughts? Possibilities? Just an idea... 😛

Meh, "most competitive" for AOA residencies is null for MD students anyways haha. But I totally get where you going with this 😛

 

[MADD!!!]

Meh, "most competitive" for AOA residencies is null for MD students anyways haha. But I totally get where you going with this 😛

In other words, I hope our Derm, Ortho, and other competitive specialty residencies do stay coveted!!!! loll

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

In other words, I hope our Derm, Ortho, and other competitive specialty residencies do stay coveted!!!! loll

Yeah I hope so too, although I don't think they will. At least not to the extent they are currently obviously. I will say though that I really don't think that these programs will get all these stellar MD apps that everyone seems to talk about. Or if they do I doubt they will be ranked that highly. The only MD students I know that are saying they are excited to apply to these spots are the ones with like a 220 step 1 that think they will get an AOA ortho spot. I also think some of these MD applicants are discounting how good some of the top DO applicants are for these specialties. A current resident in the ortho forums has said that at his program they literally have more than one resident with 260 step, one intern even with a 270.

Bottom line, if you want a competitive spot then be competitive. I really think the only big thing that will change is that auditions won't save someone with average or poor stats anymore. You have to be able to audition AND have the CV.

 

[MADD!!!]

Yeah I hope so too, although I don't think they will. At least not to the extent they are currently obviously. I will say though that I really don't think that these programs will get all these stellar MD apps that everyone seems to talk about. Or if they do I doubt they will be ranked that highly. The only MD students I know that are saying they are excited to apply to these spots are the ones with like a 220 step 1 that think they will get an AOA ortho spot. I also think some of these MD applicants are discounting how good some of the top DO applicants are for these specialties. A current resident in the ortho forums has said that at his program they literally have more than one resident with 260 step, one intern even with a 270.

Bottom line, if you want a competitive spot then be competitive. I really think the only big thing that will change is that auditions won't save someone with average or poor stats anymore. You have to be able to audition AND have the CV.

I think auditions will still go a long way. Stats aren't everything, even though it's the biggest factor.

By this, I mean I do think some students with average/low scores but with good auditions and really connecting with a PD will still be ranked well. But obviously don't depend on it

 

[IslandStyle808]

Unfortunately the USMLE (COMLEX for AOA programs) will open far more doors than an audition rotations ever will. Auditions pretty much can move you up a notch or take you down several. This is probably more true on the ACGME side than AOA (referring to the take you down several part).

 

[DrBowtie]

The AOA programs could have instituted an effectively similar hurdle by applying for osteopathic distinction but we know not many have. What they do require unofficially is up to them similar to ACGME programs.

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

LOLOLOLOL at the OP
I have friends at MD schools in Chicaho who are salivating over the chance of applying to the competitive DO programs in town.
Matching into derm, ortho, gen Surg, uro, etc will be next to nill in 4-5 years for DOs.

 

[holdthemayo]

LOLOLOLOL at the OP
I have friends at MD schools in Chicaho who are salivating over the chance of applying to the competitive DO programs in town.
Matching into derm, ortho, gen Surg, uro, etc will be next to nill in 4-5 years for DOs.

I agree that it is wishful thinking that MD students won't rank former AOA programs or that the programs won't rank MD students. I also can't imagine the AOA programs are going to stop ranking top DO students just because they can have MDs now. No one knows how the merge will go for the DO match, but it's unlikely to be extreme in either direction. Probably there will continue to be a negative DO bias in ACGME programs that have one now and there will be a positive DO bias in the former AOA spots.

 

[SurgDoc95]

I agree that it is wishful thinking that MD students won't rank former AOA programs or that the programs won't rank MD students. I also can't imagine the AOA programs are going to stop ranking top DO students just because they can have MDs now. No one knows how the merge will go for the DO match, but it's unlikely to be extreme in either direction. Probably there will continue to be a negative DO bias in ACGME programs that have one now and there will be a positive DO bias in the former AOA spots.

This would be a good turnout from the merger!

 

[Marrowist]

All of this is pure speculation and anyone that says otherwise is ill informed. Half the people that spout off about the merger are either premeds, accepted students or current students who have no direct experience with any of these matters. Who knows what the landscape will look like in 2021. Whichever poster above that mentioned competitive residencies will be impossible for DO's in 4-5 years is just ignorant.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

LOLOLOLOL at the OP
I have friends at MD schools in Chicaho who are salivating over the chance of applying to the competitive DO programs in town.
Matching into derm, ortho, gen Surg, uro, etc will be next to nill in 4-5 years for DOs.

Lol.

I agree that it is wishful thinking that MD students won't rank former AOA programs or that the programs won't rank MD students. I also can't imagine the AOA programs are going to stop ranking top DO students just because they can have MDs now. No one knows how the merge will go for the DO match, but it's unlikely to be extreme in either direction. Probably there will continue to be a negative DO bias in ACGME programs that have one now and there will be a positive DO bias in the former AOA spots.

Yeah, it is totally my opinion but I also know a good amount of MD students and none of them are salivating over former AOA spots. And I can definitely say the ones who plan on ranking these programs highly are not the cream of the crop MDs like some people seem to believe. I am with you that there probably won't be a dramatic shift in either direction.

 

[Goro]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

That if MD students want to apply for DO residencies, then programs can also have the option to say "We only accept COMLEX scores." So if an MD really wants to enter a DO program, they would also feel the need to take both the COMLEX and USMLE to be most competitive for AOA residencies.

Thoughts? Possibilities? Just an idea... 😛

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Based purely on speculation, I believe many former AOA programs will continue to have DO residents make up at least 85% of their residents. To them, they have been training DOs for years, and suddenly they think bringing in MDs will somehow validate their programs? I also believe, again on speculation, that for every MD that takes up a DO spot in an AOA residency, that a DO will take a spot in a MD residency (maybe not the same specialty of course, but that point is that I think with the merger that many more ACGME PDs will be more comfortable at ranking and considering DOs then say 5 years ago).

Ultimately, I think the overall effect will be small to moderate in the grand scheme of things. I trust that the AOA and AOA PDs are rational decision makers and stakeholders, and want to continue offering DOs as much of a chance at certain specialties. Time will tell--until then I think frequent speculation is an act of futility to be frank. Let the process play out, but certainly let our voices be heard through SOMA and other avenues.

 

[JB50]

All of this is pure speculation and anyone that says otherwise is ill informed. Half the people that spout off about the merger are either premeds, accepted students or current students who have no direct experience with any of these matters. Who knows what the landscape will look like in 2021. Whichever poster above that mentioned competitive residencies will be impossible for DO's in 4-5 years is just ignorant.

I love you

 

[JB50]

Meh, "most competitive" for AOA residencies is null for MD students anyways haha. But I totally get where you going with this 😛

Do DO residencies salivate at a 200 step 1 MD or

 

[JB50]

In other words, I hope our Derm, Ortho, and other competitive specialty residencies do stay coveted!!!! loll

You can RIP knowing that previously DO spots aren't going to suddenly nut hug on MD's and top applicants are still going to match ortho, derm, etc regardless of what SDN says. It's a fact.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I think this thread is hilarious. There is no way a competitive DO residency will pick an MD student who barely broke a 230 over a DO who has a 260 USMLE and 700 COMLEX score. Remember the bias works both ways.

 

[JB50]

I think this thread is hilarious. There is no way a competitive DO residency will pick an MD student who barely broke a 230 over a DO who has a 260 USMLE and 700 COMLEX score. Remember the bias works both ways.

Welcome to SDN

 

[IslandStyle808]

Welcome to SDN

But we haven't reached the point where we all think this matching bias is a conspiracy by the government, I can't call this SDN level neuroticism just yet....

 

[CCmetal94]

If MD PDs can filter out DO apps can DO PDs filter out MD apps?

 

[Mad Jack]

That if MD students want to apply for DO residencies, then programs can also have the option to say "We only accept COMLEX scores." So if an MD really wants to enter a DO program, they would also feel the need to take both the COMLEX and USMLE to be most competitive for AOA residencies.

Thoughts? Possibilities? Just an idea... 😛

I wish the COMLEX were just an add-on to the USMLE that tested osteopathic principles and practices.

 

[Marrowist]

I wish the COMLEX were just an add-on to the USMLE that tested osteopathic principles and practices.

It will be one day.

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

I think this thread is hilarious. There is no way a competitive DO residency will pick an MD student who barely broke a 230 over a DO who has a 260 USMLE and 700 COMLEX score. Remember the bias works both ways.

ACGME is imposing new research requirements for DO programs.
If I was a DO PD, I'd take the MD with the heavy research experience but lower step score knowing they have experience in research and I won't have to deal with the ACGME headache of being on probation when my residents do no research and have no publications.
This was something that was told to me by a PD literally 6 days ago.

 

[Marrowist]

ACGME is imposing new research requirements for DO programs.
If I was a DO PD, I'd take the MD with the heavy research experience but lower step score knowing they have experience in research and I won't have to deal with the ACGME headache of being on probation when my residents do no research and have no publications.
This was something that was told to me by a PD literally 6 days ago.

Good thing you aren't a DO PD lolz...

 

[JB50]

ACGME is imposing new research requirements for DO programs.
If I was a DO PD, I'd take the MD with the heavy research experience but lower step score knowing they have experience in research and I won't have to deal with the ACGME headache of being on probation when my residents do no research and have no publications.
This was something that was told to me by a PD literally 6 days ago.

Ok dude totes legit.