Identifying application challenges for a Social Justice candidate. Assistance?

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Syns

Syns

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Without getting into specifics about my qualifications or experiences, I have a deep rooted Social Justice lens that has been polished by a myriad of personal experiences. What hurdles does being too honest in my primary application produce?

To be clear, because I suspect it will come up, I do not believe to have any answers to the issues of health discrepancies. My desire is to learn from my mentors, peers and community at medical school. That training will shape my understanding of actionable effort within the realm of medical practice and community integration.

Listed below are suggestions identified so far:
(1) Experiences should be written to obviously buttress the social justice approach. @VitaminVater
(2) Avoid applying to medical schools who are not explicit in their favor for supporting undeserved populations. (mission statements) @VitaminVater
(3) Avoid failing to address how being a physician fits into your social justice motivations. @Holmwood
(4) Consider using secondaries as an opportunity to discuss social justice instead of the primary. @Holmwood
 
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Syns said:
What hurdles does being too honest in my primary application produce?
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Being too honest can sink an application, or it can make an application more interesting. It will all depend on the audience and the material.
 
Syns said:
Without getting into specifics about my qualifications or experiences, I have a deep rooted Social Justice lens that has been polished by a myriad of personal experiences. What hurdles does being too honest in my primary application produce?

To be clear, because I suspect it will come up, I do not believe to have any answers to the issues of health discrepancies. My desire is to learn from my mentors, peers and community at medical school. That training will shape my understanding of actionable effort within the realm of medical practice and community integration.
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate on what you mean by being too honest?
 
Syns said:
Without getting into specifics about my qualifications or experiences, I have a deep rooted Social Justice lens that has been polished by a myriad of personal experiences. What hurdles does being too honest in my primary application produce?
Click to expand...

Depends. How do you define Social Justice?

To be clear, because I suspect it will come up, I do not believe to have any answers to the issues of health discrepancies. My desire is to learn from my mentors, peers and community at medical school. That training will shape my understanding of actionable effort within the realm of medical practice and community integration.
Click to expand...

Excellent answer
 
I'm a bit confused...


There's more to the doctor's work than being a healer. You can be a teacher, researcher, activist, entrepreneur, administrator, etc.
If you're interested in public health policy or activism or something, your experiences have to show it. It's like if someone said they wanted to work in a disadvantaged community but never once worked with a disadvantaged community. What have you to show for it?
Edit:
What experiences drive your interest in social justice and what steps have you taken to work towards whatever goal you have relevant to social justice?

Is being trained as a doctor essential to your goals in social justice? What experiences have you had show that becoming a doctor is necessary for your goal? What sort of benefit does medical training afford that no other profession can for you goal in social justice?


Too many questions.
 
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At face value, I'm concerned being honest ("too honest") about my intent to service the disenfranchised populations of our nation will be seen negatively.

I do not believe that being a doctor and an activist are mutually exclusive.

I'd like to redirect the conversation to the challenges that an applicant is likely to face with a primary application focused on social justice.
 
Syns said:
At face value, I'm concerned being honest ("too honest") about my intent to service the disenfranchised populations of our nation will be seen negatively.

I do not believe that being a doctor and an activist are mutually exclusive.

I'd like to redirect the conversation to the challenges that an applicant is likely to face with a primary application with a social justice lens.
Click to expand...
you think wanting to work with poor people will be perceived negatively?
 
Syns said:
At face value, I'm concerned being honest ("too honest") about my intent to service the disenfranchised populations of our nation will be seen negatively.

I do not believe that being a doctor and an activist are mutually exclusive.

I'd like to redirect the conversation to the challenges that an applicant is likely to face with a primary application with a social justice lens.
Click to expand...

If one of the themes of your application is your desire to work with medically underserved populations, then most likely this will be seen as a huge plus by schools with that specific mission.
I would only be careful in not using up too much space on your PS to discuss the theory or historical background of why these populations are medically underserved, but rather talk about your personal experiences and how they inspired/drove you to want to work with these populations and address their unique problems.
 
@VitaminVater
I am more concerned about tone/perspective. How candid is appropriate?

Could I send you a paragraph to demonstrate?

EDIT:
Listed below are the challenges identified so far:
(1) Experiences should be written to obviously buttress the social justice approach. @VitaminVater
(2) Avoid applying to medical schools who are not explicit in their favor for supporting undeserved populations. (mission statements) @VitaminVater
(3) Avoid failing to address how being a physician fits into your social justice motivations. @Holmwood
 
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Syns said:
@VitaminVater
I am more concerned about tone/perspective. How candid is appropriate?

Could I send you a paragraph to demonstrate?

EDIT:
Listed below are the challenges identified so far:
(1) Experiences should be written to obviously buttress the social justice approach.
(2) Avoid applying to medical schools who are not explicit in their favor for supporting undeserved populations. (mission statements)
Click to expand...

I'm having a hard time imagining what you could say that would be problematic, so sure I'd welcome a paragraph as an example!
 
@sb247
There is a huge difference between expressing an interest in working with the underserved and that mantle defining your application -- or at least being a significant pillar of your application.
 
sb247 said:
You're either a troll or crazy, that's not an issue
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You know how alot of gunner premeds are now throwing in that "I am altruistic because I like disadvantaged people" shtick in their personal statements? That's why it's now necessary to demonstrate your genuine desire to help disadvantaged communities through your experiences rather than just pay lip service.

As an aside, you probably have personal reservations on that whole "compassionate physician" issue. I think you were one of the folks who advocated competence and high performance over the humanities qualities, right?
 
I'm not insane nor trying to troll anyone.
 
Syns said:
@sb247
There is a huge difference between expressing an interest in working with the underserved and that mantle defining your application -- or at least being a significant pillar of your application.
Click to expand...

What does this even mean? The more evidence you have to show your commitment to the underserved, the better.
 
I was a pretty damn social justicey applicant but I didn't exactly make that the focus of my PS. What I did was highlight the concrete things that I had done on order to show my personality. It's one thing to say you want to serve the oppressed, it's another thing to have evidence of that. A lot of people say what they think will sound good- that they are altruistic and blah de blah- I'd focus more of differentiating yourself from that group
 
northernlights15 said:
What does this even mean? The more evidence you have to show your commitment to the underserved, the better.
Click to expand...
@Syns Is it a question of politics? I know in my experience more liberal beliefs correspond to a greater diversity of compassion, but adcoms are overwhelmingly white and male.
 
@touchpause13

Why did you choose not to have social justice be a central message for your application? Did you not include it being it doesn't define your personality or because you feared the negative effects of having social justice serve as a central theme of your application? If the latter, please elaborate because that fear constitutes my concern.

@Cytokine2014

Maybe. If politics dictate which aspects of social determinates of health can be talked about openly in a primary application for medical school. I would what to know which to avoid.
 
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Syns said:
@toughpause13

Why did you choose not to have social justice be a central message for your application?

@Cytokine2014

Maybe. If politics dictate which aspects of social determinates of health can be talked about openly in a primary application for medical school. I would what to know which to avoid.
Click to expand...
It's a problem with length rather than content. You only have roughly 5000 characters to work with, and the concern is that you end up talking about your political ideals more than your personal experiences and qualities. The latter should be the primary focus of the personal statement. The personal statement functions as a way to introduce the kind of person you are and your potential for becoming a great doc.

If you have political goals, you could probably talk about it in the secondaries. There's usually a "how will you contribute to the diversity of our community" type questions. Great time to plug in your social justice background.
 
That makes sense Holmwood and I agree however that is not my concern. If the suggestion is to avoid politically charged topics, I need to know which specifically. I have no intention of discussing my political inclinations.

Example: Avoid discussion of white dominate culture.

Great, no problem! I hadn't intended on discussing white dominate culture in my application. I'll add it to the list.

Example: Avoid discussion agency development in medically underserved populations.

Yikes, really? Okay, let me make sure to avoid that topic. I'll add it to the list.

@Holmwood Great suggestion for a secondary response. added to list.
 
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Length was the biggest factor. I felt like I had a lot of things I needed to communicate about myself and I didn't want it to be completely tunnel vision. The only thing I left out of my app out of fear of retribution was the fact that I'm not straight (which I actually regret and wish I would have)
 
@touchpause13 I'm sorry to hear that. Are you using your experience to advise other non-straight pre-medical students?
 
touchpause13 said:
Length was the biggest factor. I felt like I had a lot of things I needed to communicate about myself and I didn't want it to be completely tunnel vision. The only thing I left out of my app out of fear of retribution was the fact that I'm not straight (which I actually regret and wish I would have)
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Nah, you did the right thing. Adcoms may be conservative, so you were just being cautious.
 
The central theme of my application is serving disadvantaged communities. My personal statement focused briefly on my own experiences with injustice and how that motivated me to become a physician and shaped my view of the type of physician I would like to be.

You have to be very careful to make sure you're answering "why medicine?", because there are much more effective ways to fight injustice than through medicine. Further, the connection between activism and medicine won't be clear to all adcoms, so you need to clearly define this connection, too.
 
Syns said:
@touchpause13

Why did you choose not to have social justice be a central message for your application? Did you not include it being it doesn't define your personality or because you feared the negative effects of having social justice serve as a central theme of your application?
Click to expand...

There are ways of talking about social justice without mentioning it.
 
ElCapone said:
How's Harvey taking the whole "I wanna go to med school now" thing?
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Lol! I actually was 2 days away from submitting my deposit for a JD/MPH when I decided I could serve communities better from a clinical role. If only I could submit my LSAT in lieu of my CARS score lol
 
From an Adcom perspective, we do want doctors who will be advocates for their patients. Serving the underserved is a very noble calling and entire medical schools have this as their mission.

Two things to consider: we're still interested in training doctors, not advocates per say. Meaning, if you want to to be an advocate, period, go to law school and get into politics. We want our grads to be doctors who advocate, not advocates who happen to be doctors.

Also, your PS is to answer two questions: "Who am I?" and "Why Medicine". It is not meant to be an essay on health disparities in the US, or why we need X system of health care or insurance. It's not meant to be a political manifesto either.

And words are easy, doing is hard. You can convince us of your passion to serve the underserved by actually doing volunteer work with the underserved. Walk the walk, instead of talking the talk.

ElCapone said:
There are ways of talking about social justice without mentioning it.
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
Two things to consider: we're still interested in training doctors, not advocates per say. Meaning, if you want to to be an advocate, period, go to law school and get into politics. We want our grads to be doctors who advocate, not advocates who happen to be doctors.
Click to expand...

This. A lot of people don't realize how much overlap there is between law and medicine but you also have to realize they each have very different roles in society. You really need to know the scope and limitations of each profession before you dedicate your life to one or the other.
 
rachiie01 said:
Lol! I actually was 2 days away from submitting my deposit for a JD/MPH when I decided I could serve communities better from a clinical role. If only I could submit my LSAT in lieu of my CARS score lol
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There's such a thing as JD/MPH? 😵

What newfangled thing are they going to come up with next? JD/MD?
 
ElCapone said:
There's such a thing as JD/MPH? 😵

What newfangled thing are they going to come up with next? JD/MD?
Click to expand...

Wait, seriously?
Guys, who do you think runs public health law? Remember when tobacco companies were ruined via litigation? Who do you think is most qualified to review malpractice cases? Those dual degrees have defined, purposeful roles lol.
 
LizzyM said:
LOL at some of the ideas here about adcoms. Last time I looked, white males were in the minority on the adcom at my school. And one of the few white male interviewers was gay. I don't buy this "conservative white men" thing.
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Conservative white male physicians are too busy to waste their valuable time being a member of an Adcom. Maybe a few interviews a year, if they're feeling generous.
 
Syns said:
@sb247
There is a huge difference between expressing an interest in working with the underserved and that mantle defining your application -- or at least being a significant pillar of your application.
Click to expand...
I disagree, many medical students have come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds and have personal experiences with the failure of modern healthcare to adequately or even properly serve that population. This is nothing new. It's also one of the reasons that medical student staffing at the local free clinic was always full.
Those that actually follow through after residency are a different story though.
 
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