If I were to be CA resident when I enter med school, but not when I apply

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zmfhtps

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1. Can I apply as in-state when I apply to the UCs?

I came to the U.S. (in California) when I was young on a visa. I lived in California for 7 years, then at age 18 I got my U.S. permanent residency. (I got my driver license & SSN in CA) However, then I entered college in the East coast, leaving California.

I will be taking a gap year after graduation and will be working in California for a year, applying for CA residency. However, I will be making applications before I get my residency. Can I apply as in-state?


2. How does In-state friend work? I understand UCs are in-state friendly, but is that because of tuition?
 
gyngyn said:
CA is one of the worst states from which to apply. We are the largest exporter of pre-meds in the US! If you have the option of another state, which would it be?
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Really? I did not know that. I don't think I am currently any state resident.
 
Is being a CA resident not advantageous? When I look at MSAR, CA residents have twice higher acceptance rate to the UCs.
 
zmfhtps said:
Is being a CA resident not advantageous? When I look at MSAR, CA residents have twice higher acceptance rate to the UCs.
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The reason is that there are waaay to many qualified applicants with great scores, research etc due to the large state population, large asian population, good quality schools, favorable in-state tuition, great weather, and more. That's why the UCs don't need to accept too many out of state applicants and why you'll see a bunch of california residents in med schools all over America.
 
CA and WA are some of the worst states to be from. They have some of the highest matriculant medians.
 
Similar situation here but with New York State. Answers to OPs question would be much appreciated.
 
LonelyBoi said:
Similar situation here but with New York State. Answers to OPs question would be much appreciated.
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A large part of this depends on if you are competitive enough.
If you are an applicant who is competitive for the state where you want to matriculate and you want to stay it is completely fine taking your chances in that state.
However, if you are a borderline applicant or are not competitive for that home state and you have been in another state for some duration and would be able to get the instate advantage in that state it is preferable to apply to schools in that state.

Here is a table that compares the average MCAT /GPA to give an idea of the competition by state. Life if you have been living in WVA and have residence there and have a 505 mcat it would be idiotic to move back to CA and apply as a CA resident.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321502/data/factstablea20.pdf
 
libertyyne said:
A large part of this depends on if you are competitive enough.
If you are an applicant who is competitive for the state where you want to matriculate and you want to stay it is completely fine taking your chances in that state.
However, if you are a borderline applicant or are not competitive for that home state and you have been in another state for some duration and would be able to get the instate advantage in that state it is preferable to apply to schools in that state.

Here is a table that compares the average MCAT /GPA to give an idea of the competition by state. Life if you have been living in WVA and have residence there and have a 505 mcat it would be idiotic to move back to CA and apply as a CA resident.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321502/data/factstablea20.pdf
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.
 
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LonelyBoi said:
I’m a resident of a state where average accepted MCAT to its flagship medical school is a ~504 with an acceptance rate near 45%. I have a 3.95, 521, and go to school in NYC. I’m planning on working in NYC during my gap year next year. Let’s say I apply as a resident for the state I currently am already a resident, and gain admission to both my current state school and a New York State school. Can I apply for NY residency after gaining admission to the NY school so I can avoid paying OOS tuition?
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This depends on every state and how they treat domicile in IS status which is usually based on state law. Every state is different. Do some research on what it requires to gain domicile in NYC and what is required to IS tuition . If you have a 3.9 521 i would stay in what ever state you want as long as you get IS tuition.
 
LonelyBoi said:
I’m a resident of a state where average accepted MCAT to its flagship medical school is a ~504 with an acceptance rate near 45%. I have a 3.95, 521, and go to school in NYC. I’m planning on working in NYC during my gap year next year. Let’s say I apply as a resident for the state I currently am already a resident, and gain admission to both my current state school and a New York State school. Can I apply for NY residency after gaining admission to the NY school so I can avoid paying OOS tuition?
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The only school with that acceptance rate/avgs in the US is UMMC, correct?
 
I always hear California is the worst state to be from, but it's hard to believe when you can get preference and IS tuition from amazing schools like UCLA, UCSF, UCSD, and the list goes on. As libertyyne pointed out, it all just depends on where you fall on the competitiveness spectrum
 
gyngyn said:
CA is one of the worst states from which to apply. We are the largest exporter of pre-meds in the US! If you have the option of another state, which would it be?
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I believe that I currently don't have any state residency as I just received my permanent residence in the U.S. a couple years ago. My mom and my brothers live in California but they also received permanent residence the same time. Our address is California, yes, (and my address school dorm lol) but I heard that doesn't make us California resident.
 
libertyyne said:
This depends on every state and how they treat domicile in IS status which is usually based on state law. Every state is different. Do some research on what it requires to gain domicile in NYC and what is required to IS tuition . If you have a 3.9 521 i would stay in what ever state you want as long as you get IS tuition.
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In this case above ^, do I fall into legal resident not in the U.S. or unknown???

Also if you were to choose, since my school is in Maryland, would you choose MD or CA?
 
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theKingLT said:
I always hear California is the worst state to be from, but it's hard to believe when you can get preference and IS tuition from amazing schools like UCLA, UCSF, UCSD, and the list goes on. As libertyyne pointed out, it all just depends on where you fall on the competitiveness spectrum
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Blessing and a curse. I'm at a top 5, and turned down a t20 full merit scholarship, and I didn't even get an interview to UCLA or UCSF. I thought I was pretty hot shizz and my own state schools humbled me good.

Edit: As a bonus anecdote my old dorm R.A. was also Californian and his dream school was UCSF. He got the big R there too despite getting into HMS. With these places it's tough odds anywhere on the competitiveness spectrum
 
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libertyyne said:
You have to look at the individual state requirements.
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Right. The problem is that I looked, and there is no way I can declare California residence nor Maryland residence. So technically I am a permanent resident in U.S. without a state residency. Is there a category for us? lol.
 
zmfhtps said:
In this case above ^, do I fall into legal resident not in the U.S. or unknown???

Also if you were to choose, since my school is in Maryland, would you choose MD or CA?
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What was the address (state) on your permanent resident card? You also have a CA driver’s license. Just because you went out of state for college doesn’t automatically make you a resident in that state (unless you applied for it—got a license there, government health benefits, etc).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If you graduated from a California high school you will qualify for a tuition waiver at UCs (meaning that you pay in-state tuition even though you will likely be considered OOS at least initially). After at least a year of school you can then apply to be reclassified as in-state.
 
Naruhodo said:
If you graduated from a California high school you will qualify for a tuition waiver at UCs (meaning that you pay in-state tuition even though you will likely be considered OOS at least initially). After at least a year of school you can then apply to be reclassified as in-state.
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I don’t believe that is the case. Typically you have to be in the state for reasons other than to get an education. A few will grant you in-state residency after a year of studies, but I do not believe CA is one of those few.

OP-I don’t know about your particular situation since you weren’t a permanent resident at the time. But going to school out of state does not change your residency. Still, if you got your DL in CA and lived there prior to going to college in the East coast, that might be enough to claim residency. Did your folks pay CA taxes? Did they pay CA utility bills? There’s probably a website (maybe the one linked above) that specifically lays out CA residency requirements. If not, find a lawyer and ask them.

I maintained CA residency while out of state for med school, but I then did residency out of state as well-at which point I was no longer able to maintain CA residency. Of course, the only benefit to maintaining CA residency while in med school was that I didn’t have to change my car registration and drivers license.
 
RangerBob said:
I don’t believe that is the case. Typically you have to be in the state for reasons other than to get an education. A few will grant you in-state residency after a year of studies, but I do not believe CA is one of those few.

OP-I don’t know about your particular situation since you weren’t a permanent resident at the time. But going to school out of state does not change your residency. Still, if you got your DL in CA and lived there prior to going to college in the East coast, that might be enough to claim residency. Did your folks pay CA taxes? Did they pay CA utility bills? There’s probably a website (maybe the one linked above) that specifically lays out CA residency requirements. If not, find a lawyer and ask them.

I maintained CA residency while out of state for med school, but I then did residency out of state as well-at which point I was no longer able to maintain CA residency. Of course, the only benefit to maintaining CA residency while in med school was that I didn’t have to change my car registration and drivers license.
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hopefulCAdoc said:
There is no such thing. You established residency in CA as soon as you came here whether you got permanent residence or not. I was in your situation so I know.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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So when you apply to medical schools, you don't have to show some sort of a document proving you are CA resident?
 
zmfhtps said:
So when you apply to medical schools, you don't have to show some sort of a document proving you are CA resident?
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It was quite a while ago, but I don’t recall having to show anything. I listed my home address in the application, which was in CA.

You may need to show some proof of residency upon matriculation perhaps-someone who went to a UC could probably answer that better
 
Sorta like @efle I was offered merit scholarships at 4 T20s, but was rejected W/O interview at UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, UCD (and USC, FWIW). Not much of an advantage being IS for this CA res.

With respect to the high school thing @Naruhodo mentioned. It's called a "AB 540 Exemption" (AB 540 nonresident tuition exemption | UC Admissions). It does protect you from nonresident tuition if you meet the requirements - but yeah, you gotta get in first.....
 
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theKingLT said:
I always hear California is the worst state to be from, but it's hard to believe when you can get preference and IS tuition from amazing schools like UCLA, UCSF, UCSD, and the list goes on. As libertyyne pointed out, it all just depends on where you fall on the competitiveness spectrum
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California has approximately 12% of the U.S. population and about 7% of the MD & DO seats combined. This is the primary reason that California stinks as a place to call home if you are trying to get into medical school. Nobody should ever move to California if they want to go to med school.
 
zmfhtps said:
I believe that I currently don't have any state residency as I just received my permanent residence in the U.S. a couple years ago. My mom and my brothers live in California but they also received permanent residence the same time. Our address is California, yes, (and my address school dorm lol) but I heard that doesn't make us California resident.
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For U.S. legal purposes state residency is any place you intend to remain indefinitely. However, each state will have its own criteria with respect to residency status for admissions preferences and tuition.

Where are you filing a state income tax return? Where is your car registered? Where are you paying rent? Where are you registered to vote? If the same answer comes up every time, generally that's where you will be a state resident.
 
Add "where is your driver's license from" to the list above and you've got all the questions you'll probably be asked when they are making a residency determination. It sucks when you've got those things scattered across different states, but once you've got in mind where you'd like to/ are most likely to matriculate you can start getting your ducks in order to have them all align for then same state (where you will likely be considered a resident when you have lived there at least 12 months).
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
California has approximately 12% of the U.S. population and about 7% of the MD & DO seats combined. This is the primary reason that California stinks as a place to call home if you are trying to get into medical school. Nobody should ever move to California if they want to go to med school.
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That's way too simplistic of an analysis to apply it to everyone because it assumes that everyone is interested in every school. If you're a top-tier applicant from a state with one or two low-tier public schools that do not interest you at all, then what good is your in-state status there? It does nothing for you. In that case the state would hold exactly 0% of the MD/DO seats that you would be applying to. Meanwhile you're interested in UCLA, UCSD, UCSF, UCI, etc. and even if as in-state the chances would still be low of gaining admissions, it would be preferable to the 0 benefit that you receive from a supposedly "better" state with a higher seat:applicant ratio but only undesirable schools.
 
theKingLT said:
That's way too simplistic of an analysis to apply it to everyone because it assumes that everyone is interested in every school. If you're a top-tier applicant from a state with one or two low-tier public schools that do not interest you at all, then what good is your in-state status there? It does nothing for you. In that case the state would hold exactly 0% of the MD/DO seats that you would be applying to. Meanwhile you're interested in UCLA, UCSD, UCSF, UCI, etc. and even if as in-state the chances would still be low of gaining admissions, it would be preferable to the 0 benefit that you receive from a supposedly "better" state with a higher seat:applicant ratio but only undesirable schools.
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See this table:
https://www.aamc.org/download/321442/data/factstablea1.pdf

This table is also presented as an EXCEL file. If you classify every institution as state owned, private, military, in Puerto Rico or for profit and then classify the students as instate vs non resident you will see that 47% of all allopathic first year medical students last fall went to a state owned institution in their home state. 83% of the seats in Puerto Rico's medical schools went to residents of Puerto Rico and 32% of private medical school seats went to instate residents. In all 60% of first year allopathic medical students went to med school in their home state.

Anyone who looks down his/her nose at an instate allopathic medical school these days is a fool. If you look at the match lists of the state medical schools with the lowest LizzyM score averages you will see that the best students at those schools can match into the most difficult fields.

Even some people with great stats get rejected everywhere they apply. See this table:
https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

Last fall 12% of the people with a 3.8 or above and a 518 or above got rejected EVERYWHERE THEY APPLIED. I don't know if you've been accepted yet. If you haven't been accepted, you need to check your elitism at the door. Good luck.
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
See this table:
https://www.aamc.org/download/321442/data/factstablea1.pdf

This table is also presented as an EXCEL file. If you classify every institution as state owned, private, military, in Puerto Rico or for profit and then classify the students as instate vs non resident you will see that 47% of all allopathic first year medical students last fall went to a state owned institution in their home state. 83% of the seats in Puerto Rico's medical schools went to residents of Puerto Rico and 32% of private medical school seats went to instate residents. In all 60% of first year allopathic medical students went to med school in their home state.

Anyone who looks down his/her nose at an instate allopathic medical school these days is a fool. If you look at the match lists of the state medical schools with the lowest LizzyM score averages you will see that the best students at those schools can match into the most difficult fields.

Even some people with great stats get rejected everywhere they apply. See this table:
https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

Last fall 12% of the people with a 3.8 or above and a 518 or above got rejected EVERYWHERE THEY APPLIED. I don't know if you've been accepted yet. If you haven't been accepted, you need to check your elitism at the door. Good luck.
Click to expand...

No elitism here. I applied to MD schools ranging from the top of the top to unranked by USNWR (including my state schools), and I would be happy to attend any one of them (not to say I don't have preferences). I would have applied DO as well had my application been less competitive. However, I've also been accepted to Baylor which not only fits my preferences better than my state schools (curriculum, location, career goals, clinical opportunities etc.), but is also cheaper than my state schools. I'm still waiting to hear back from my state schools on the off-chance I get a large merit scholarships, but historically those odds are very low. I'm also waiting to hear back from 8 other T20 schools, making the odds of a state school being my top choice in April even lower. Even if I get rejected from all of them I still have Baylor which means my in-state status at this point means basically nothing for me, and therefore yes, I would rather have residency in California where the schools which I really like have been dead silent. I understand I don't represent the majority, but there are plenty of people every year on the "help me decide" threads who have great cycles (often with scholarships to top schools) that make their state schools rather meaningless to them. For this reason I stand by my assertion that a broad analysis of the seat : applicant ratio in a given state does not tell you which state would be preferred FOR EVERYONE. It really depends on the individual applicant.

Also if you read the posts of high-stat re-applicants, the vast majority had a significant flaw in their app that could have been fixed by applying smarter or waiting a year (ie. applied late, narrow/top-heavy school list, lack clinical experience, etc.). If you do all those rather simple parts correctly, I would imagine (although based on only anecdotal evidence) that the chances of gaining at least one acceptance for the 3.8+ 518+ group goes up significantly.
 
theKingLT said:
No elitism here. I applied to MD schools ranging from the top of the top to unranked by USNWR (including my state schools), and I would be happy to attend any one of them (not to say I don't have preferences). I would have applied DO as well had my application been less competitive. However, I've also been accepted to Baylor which not only fits my preferences better than my state schools (curriculum, location, career goals, clinical opportunities etc.), but is also cheaper than my state schools. I'm still waiting to hear back from my state schools on the off-chance I get a large merit scholarships, but historically those odds are very low. I'm also waiting to hear back from 8 other T20 schools, making the odds of a state school being my top choice in April even lower. Even if I get rejected from all of them I still have Baylor which means my in-state status at this point means basically nothing for me, and therefore yes, I would rather have residency in California where the schools which I really like have been dead silent. I understand I don't represent the majority, but there are plenty of people every year on the "help me decide" threads who have great cycles (often with scholarships to top schools) that make their state schools rather meaningless to them. For this reason I stand by my assertion that a broad analysis of the seat : applicant ratio in a given state does not tell you which state would be preferred FOR EVERYONE. It really depends on the individual applicant.

Also if you read the posts of high-stat re-applicants, the vast majority had a significant flaw in their app that could have been fixed by applying smarter or waiting a year (ie. applied late, narrow/top-heavy school list, lack clinical experience, etc.). If you do all those rather simple parts correctly, I would imagine (although based on only anecdotal evidence) that the chances of gaining at least one acceptance for the 3.8+ 518+ group goes up significantly.
Click to expand...

Congrats on getting into Baylor. Well done. You, however, don't represent the average applicant. Your experience doesn't apply to most applicants. Most people need to stare at the numbers and recognize that the schools in their state represent their best chance of becoming a physician. 60% of allopathic students stay home. The differences in average MCAT scores by state among matriculating students don't lie. Read 'em and weep.

The son of a friend of mine had great stats, great volunteering experience, great this and great that. He has terrific interpersonal skills. He applied to 20 schools. Some middling and some top tier. He only got into his state school.
 
RangerBob said:
I don’t believe that is the case. Typically you have to be in the state for reasons other than to get an education. A few will grant you in-state residency after a year of studies, but I do not believe CA is one of those few.
Click to expand...

Actually, it is - at least at the UC I attend. They advertise the fact that you can apply for IS tuition after MS1 and have workshops to assist those who are interested in doing so. It involves things like getting a CA driver’s license and registering to vote here.

RangerBob said:
It was quite a while ago, but I don’t recall having to show anything. I listed my home address in the application, which was in CA.

You may need to show some proof of residency upon matriculation perhaps-someone who went to a UC could probably answer that better
Click to expand...

When you are accepted, there is an online form you have to fill out that asks how long you’ve been in CA, if you have a license here, if you went to hs here, etc. They then verify this information and use it to determine whether or not you qualify as IS.
 
differentiating said:
When you are accepted, there is an online form you have to fill out that asks how long you’ve been in CA, if you have a license here, if you went to hs here, etc. They then verify this information and use it to determine whether or not you qualify as IS
Click to expand...

Yup, and this has to be in for me by April which is 3 months before I matriculate. Either way, my school is really chill about things like this and I suspect that it would depend on how much lenience each school gives. Before applying, just give each school a call and explain your situation and see what they say.
 
Wow, it's nuts how low some of these numbers are. E.g. only 12/172 successful Arkansas applicants left the state. 5/53 left North Dakota, 17/153 left West Virginia, etc. Didn't realize the in-state schools in places like this constituted such a huge supermajority of their docs.
 
gyngyn said:
OP wants to establish residency in CA, however.
It is one state where more successful candidates matriculate OOS than in: https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstablea5.pdf
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Moving to California is still a dumb move if you want to go to medical school. The reason more matriculate "out than in" is that California has 12% of the population and only about 7% of the medical school seats. Look at the average MCAT score among people who matriculate from California.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321502/data/factstablea20.pdf
Only Connecticut and Massachusetts have matriculants with a higher MCAT average. Those two states have California's problem. Lots of kids with parents who are university types and a small state medical school in each. It stinks to be them.
If someone is going to move to get into medical school, I would suggest the Midwest. You would never move out of the south.
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
Moving to California is still a dumb move if you want to go to medical school. The reason more matriculate "out than in" is that California has 12% of the population and only about 7% of the medical school seats. Look at the average MCAT score among people who matriculate from California.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321502/data/factstablea20.pdf
Only Connecticut and Massachusetts have matriculants with a higher MCAT average. Those two states have California's problem. Lots of kids with parents who are university types and a small state medical school in each. It stinks to be them.
If someone is going to move to get into medical school, I would suggest the Midwest. You would never move out of the south.
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You wouldn't recommend Texas?! It's like the land of opportunity for medical school
 
efle said:
Wow, it's nuts how low some of these numbers are. E.g. only 12/172 successful Arkansas applicants left the state. 5/53 left North Dakota, 17/153 left West Virginia, etc. Didn't realize the in-state schools in places like this constituted such a huge supermajority of their docs.
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These states have a large number of seats relative to their population of competitive applicants. West Virginia has three state owned medical schools, including a DO school, because they want to get their own kids into medical school. That's the only way these states will have a sufficient number of physicians in the future.
 
theKingLT said:
You wouldn't recommend Texas?! It's like the land of opportunity for medical school
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I don't know for sure but if somebody walked into an interview at Texas Tech med school with a Texas driver's license and a Brooklyn, NY accent, I would think the adcoms would smell a rat. Maybe not. Who knows. Michigan and Ohio would be much better place to move in my opinion.
 
gyngyn said:
This is why I was gently suggesting another state of residence, if possible.
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As a CPA I had business clients for 25 years and always spoke to them as clearly as possible. Almost all of them appreciated it. Speaking in riddles on these boards doesn't do anyone any good.
 
efle said:
Wow, it's nuts how low some of these numbers are. E.g. only 12/172 successful Arkansas applicants left the state. 5/53 left North Dakota, 17/153 left West Virginia, etc. Didn't realize the in-state schools in places like this constituted such a huge supermajority of their docs.
Click to expand...
That's why we call them lucky states. They highly favor the home team
 
Is West Virginia in-state more favorable than Vermont, since it has two public MD schools and 1 DO? Additionally, if you were to establish residency in WV, does the one-year domicile begin from the time you set up your address there, or when you start employment? And when you establish employment during September or something, and submitted your app in June, would you still not satisfy the 1 year requirement, despite continuing to live there, pay taxes...
 
No idea about WV specifically, but generally yes, residency counts from the time that you establish residency (not job start). Hold onto things like moving receipts, rental agreements, utility bills, and immediately switch car registration, voting registration, and driver's license to your new state of residence. Beware some states have rules like you can't leave to another state for a duration longer than 2 weeks, so be careful how long you spend out-of-state, if there's any chance they could claim a 3 week trip over Christmas to visit family means that location is your permanent residence.

AMCAS will not do anything to verify your state of residence, but the school that ultimately accepts you will. So look at when medical school starts at the places you are considering and make sure your move date is 1 year in advance of that. Good luck!
 
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