If you get exact average on Step 1, what tier residency would you expect to match?

[profunda]

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If you get exact average on Step 1, what tier residency (please name some examples) would you expect to match?

 

[FZISHN]

Hi profunda!!!

Wuz up?

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

 

[oldandtired]

In a very complicated equation which varies based on the program. If you plan on "upper tier" better have something else going for you.

 

[profunda]

Hm...so what tier schools (and please examples) would that be?

See, this is what I dont understand. I cannot see how all these sdn allopaths are saying they score above 90th percentile and all these allopaths are going to the top tier residencies. This is why:

It is already an accomplish and difficult enough to get into medical school itself and become a medical student. The top 10% or 20% of any undergrad institution actually makes it to medical school, maybe less. To be an average medical student is already, I think, something to speak of. I mean, to be in the 90th percentile of all medical student means, out of 10, you are better than 9 MEDICAL STUDENTS. You would be like top 1% of a competitive undergrad university.

In this quote and some I've read, it appears as though being the average is actually a bad or underrated thing. I think that to make it to medical school, and then even "pass" Step 1 to enable yourself to be a doctor, is already a great accomplishment. If you can be an average medical student, which means of 10 medical student, you are doing better than 4 and the same as the 5th, isnt that deserving of an applause and a "good" residency spot? Please explain. Why is average on Step 1 so underrated?

Originally posted by oldandtired
In a very complicated equation which varies based on the program. If you plan on "upper tier" better have something else going for you.

 

[GeneralTso]

Originally posted by profunda
Hm...so what tier schools (and please examples) would that be?

See, this is what I dont understand. I cannot see how all these sdn allopaths are saying they score above 90th percentile and all these allopaths are going to the top tier residencies. This is why:

It is already an accomplish and difficult enough to get into medical school itself and become a medical student. The top 10% or 20% of any undergrad institution actually makes it to medical school, maybe less. To be an average medical student is already, I think, something to speak of. I mean, to be in the 90th percentile of all medical student means, out of 10, you are better than 9 MEDICAL STUDENTS. You would be like top 1% of a competitive undergrad university.

In this quote and some I've read, it appears as though being the average is actually a bad or underrated thing. I think that to make it to medical school, and then even "pass" Step 1 to enable yourself to be a doctor, is already a great accomplishment. If you can be an average medical student, which means of 10 medical student, you are doing better than 4 and the same as the 5th, isnt that deserving of an applause and a "good" residency spot? Please explain. Why is average on Step 1 so underrated?

Your premise is faulty in that getting into medical school in the US is not dependent on whether youre the top 10-20% of your class or that you scored several SDs above the mean on the MCATs. Helps greatly but doesnt guarantee anything except any interview.

Even though gas is less competitive than other residencies, you need stellar credentials to match at the top tier programs. Passing Step 1 or doing about average on the boards wont help your cause. if youre trying to score a residency in gas at MGH or Brigham, you have to bring alot more to the table to get a spot like that. More so if youre an FMG.

As for tiers, talking to your program director at your school might be the key to find out what programs you might be competitive for based on your credentials.

 

[R U SED 8]

profunda,

i agree that most people in med school are bright, were in the upper echelon of their undergrads, and are well-deserving of being accepted into medical school.

but what you might not be realizing is that once someone is accepted into medical school, he/she is now on the same playing field as *everyone else* in med school. granted, this person might be much brighter and more respected than an average joe. however, the top tier programs obviously can't give a spot to *everyone* bright enough to get into medical school; there just aren't enough seats! so what better a means to separate the men from the boys than with an objective usmle score.

as bleak as it may seem, the road to becoming a physician is one long competition....and seeking a residency position at a top-notch program is like most things in life...."survival of the fittest."

so in response to your post...just try to do the best you can....and be happy with whatever result comes your way. whether you end up at mass general or cornfield central, either way you'll receive a good training and go on to be a respected member of society. don't sweat it!

 

[profunda]

I didnt mean to say an average medical student deserves Brigham or MGH. That would be the top of the top tier, if not the top two residencies. I meant a "good" residency program.

I think R U SED kind of answered my question. I am just surprised it seems like everyone on SDN scores in the 90th percentile on Step I!!!! What happens to everyone else, the rest of the 90% of MEDICAL STUDENTS??? Better yet, since some 80th percentile actually do match to top tier residencies, what happens to 60% (60th percentile) of the medical students. Which hospitals are they looking at?

I hope you know now, I am not talking about top tier residency. Actually, that is exactly my question, which tier residency (any examples?) are the non-upper percentile med students looking at?

Originally posted by GeneralTso
Your premise is faulty in that getting into medical school in the US is not dependent on whether youre the top 10-20% of your class or that you scored several SDs above the mean on the MCATs. Helps greatly but doesnt guarantee anything except any interview.

Even though gas is less competitive than other residencies, you need stellar credentials to match at the top tier programs. Passing Step 1 or doing about average on the boards wont help your cause. if youre trying to score a residency in gas at MGH or Brigham, you have to bring alot more to the table to get a spot like that. More so if youre an FMG.

As for tiers, talking to your program director at your school might be the key to find out what programs you might be competitive for based on your credentials.

 

[R U SED 8]

profunda,

i'm not sure what lead you to believe that everyone on sdn is in the 90th+ percentile; isn't it statistically impossible for that to be the case???? plus, there are gobs of medical students/residents that never even visit this site, let alone post anything......

consider that there are something like 120 anesthesiology programs around the country. so for every person getting matched into MGH (or the like) there are maybe 20 or so people getting matched into the "less elite" programs. afterall, candidates filled just about every gas seat in the country through this year's match.

as far as which programs are the "less elite"...you'll have to figure that out through the various threads or by talking to your advisor. (no one is going to brag about their program being a less than stellar one). if it helps though, below is a copy of a posting which has popped up on numerous threads....good luck!


This is a previous poster's take on "top programs":
********************************************
********************************************
Academic anesthesiologists I have spoken to generally seem to stratify the outstanding programs into 3 tiers...

1) Best of the best: JHU, MGH, UCSF

2) Considered to be Elite programs: Alabama, Brigham, Columbia, Duke, Mayo, Michigan, Penn, Stanford, Wake Forest, U. Washington

3) Other excellent academic programs: Beth Israel, Cornell, Dartmouth, MC Wisconsin, Mt. Sinai, Northwestern, Penn State, UC Irvine, UCLA, UCSD, U. Chicago, U. Colorado, U. Florida, U. Iowa, UNC Chapel Hill, U. Pittsburgh, U. Rochester, U. Texas Galveston, Utah, UVA, Vanderbilt, Wash U, Yale
********************************************
********************************************

Most people I know who matched into these programs had a Step 1 above 215 and a mixture of A's and B's (Honors and High Passes) on their core third year rotations.

 

[Buela]

I've been curious how people figure out their percentile on the boards? I know we find out the mean, but I haven't seen anywhere that it gives you a percentile. The results on step 1 give you a two digit and three digit number along with pass/fail and it states both are grading systems used for Step I, but neither is a percentile.
I went and looked at this after a conversation I had with my advisor. He was noting that competitive students were getting a certain percentile. Is this just given to you on step 2 or is there a way to find this out for step 1?
Thanks....

 

[Gator05]

Not sure how much help this is, but according to one of our professors...

Presently, there are between 75-100 different versions of the USMLE Step 1. Thus, it is impossible to assign overall percentiles to scores. Percentiles applied usually use criteria from previous years where national percentiles were assigned.

 

[frotteurism]

If it makes you feel better, I had a below average step 1 score, was probably in the bottom third of my class my first two years at a mediocre med school, had no connections or famous letter writers whatsoever, basically took the fourth year off, got almost no honors third year, decided to do anesthesia at the last minute (and thus had no experience in the field), and assumed I was screwed.

I'm also not much to look at.

I ended up getting interviews at every program in NYC, Philly, and new jersey except one, every ultracompetitive transitional program except one, and ended up matching at Penn (my first choice) and a prelim year that advertises itself as filling with "mostly AOA."

Bottom line, I don't think these things are anywhere nearly as competitive as everyone says (based on personal experience, anyway). And god, no, I'm not in the 90th percentile on step 1.

Good luck to you!

 

[profunda]

Nice response frot. That is perfect, and congrats to you.
Hope to hear more experiences like these in the future. It gives hope and motivation.

Originally posted by frotteurism
If it makes you feel better, I had a below average step 1 score, was probably in the bottom third of my class my first two years at a mediocre med school, had no connections or famous letter writers whatsoever, basically took the fourth year off, got almost no honors third year, decided to do anesthesia at the last minute (and thus had no experience in the field), and assumed I was screwed.

I'm also not much to look at.

I ended up getting interviews at every program in NYC, Philly, and new jersey except one, every ultracompetitive transitional program except one, and ended up matching at Penn (my first choice) and a prelim year that advertises itself as filling with "mostly AOA."

Bottom line, I don't think these things are anywhere nearly as competitive as everyone says (based on personal experience, anyway). And god, no, I'm not in the 90th percentile on step 1.

Good luck to you!