Ignorance

[Trexate]

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Last week's thread surge of reasons why we should/should not go into medicine raised a rather interesting point. We, as pre-meds, have NO idea of what practicing medicine is really like. We discuss, at length, topics such as "Why do you like medicine?", or our opinions of a physician's career. All the while we chastize people who have actually been there when they come to the board and tell us how much it sucks for them. Clearly they have a better perspective on it than we do. Should they be whining on a pre-med forum if they aren't pre-meds? No, but they do anyway.

The point is, we are giving our opinions on something that we are inherently ignorant about. However, it seems as though we are almost required to do this throughout our lives. When you're entereing college and you have to declare a major, how do you decide? You decide based on ignorance. You may have some inkling as to what interests you, but in the end you have no way of knowing what your major will translate to in the real world.

I recently filled out a secondary that asked the old "Where are you in 10 years" question. I responded to it, honestly, suggesting where I saw myself in my medical career 10 years from now. But really, there is no way for me to know what I'll be interested in 10 years from now, or even 5 years from now. Granted, my resolve toward my end goal is driven by something different than most but still, people and their interests change.

I imagine that such a question is just to give ADCOMs another view point of who we see ourselves as. Sadly, this just perpetuates the initial problem of making decisions, assumptions, and forming opinions based on ignorance. It's inevitable that we will continue to do this, as it seems to be part of our nature at this point. Perhaps being aware that we are predisposed to making ignorant decisions will decrease the frequency with which we make them.

Just a thought.

 

[runrunrudolph1]

I think ignorance implies lacking knowledge and making an uneducated decision. I can't speak for everyone else but I would like to think that my decision to be a doctor came from more than watching Grey's Anatomy and House, but rather hours of reading, research🙂love:sdn) and hard work. I also think that grueling school work, long hours of volunteering and research, clinical work, MCAT prep, shadowing all go towards helping us realize what this career is going to be like therefore allowing us to make an educated decision of what we claim to pursue.

My 2 cents.

 

[shiftingmirage]

Although I agree that many of us do not know fully what we are getting our selves into, how can we? There is no chance for us to play 'doctor for a day' and for good reasons. (I assume) None of us know what it's like to be up for 38 hrs and have a patient code knowing you are the sole person who can determine whether one lives or dies. Or to be 5 hrs into open heart surgery with your hands clamping because you've been holding your instruments so long. We may take steps to expose ourselves to the field, but we can never know what it is really like.

This ignorance, as you call it, is not limited to medicine. Everything one does for the first time is a new experience, and they wont know exactly what they are getting themselves into. Thankfully, one can do a lot win an MD degree from clinical medicine, to research, to health reform politics, teaching, administrative positions at hospitals and medical schools.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

I would agree that the typical premed is an ignorant kid who can't see beyond his or her nose when it comes to viewing reality. Instead solace is found in academics and touting GPAs.

 

[Trexate]

I understand that we have to experience things and make decisions without prior knowledge. My point was to bring this to people's attention as something to think about, in hopes that we can decrease the amount that we do it unnecessarily. It was supposed to be more of a philosophical stance. The whole "the more you learn, the more you realize how little you know" thing. Not really medically centric.

 

[scotsdoc54]

Regardless of the career, you will never "know" what it is like until you actually do it. You won't know what engineering is like until you work as an engineer. You won't know what being a research PI is like until you have your own lab and are running it (notably, after 5-6 years of a PhD and several more as a post-doc). You won't know what its like to be a policeman or a fireman until you've done it. It's a leap of faith that many people take when getting into a career in which they've not done in the past.

That's why it is so important to medical schools that you research the career and understand the ups and the downs associated with it. That's the best we can do really. Ultimately, you just make the jump or stand back looking over the edge.

 

[ensuii]

Last week's thread surge of reasons why we should/should not go into medicine raised a rather interesting point. We, as pre-meds, have NO idea of what practicing medicine is really like. We discuss, at length, topics such as "Why do you like medicine?", or our opinions of a physician's career. All the while we chastize people who have actually been there when they come to the board and tell us how much it sucks for them. Clearly they have a better perspective on it than we do. Should they be whining on a pre-med forum if they aren't pre-meds? No, but they do anyway.

You also have to keep in mind that the only people that are going to make a thread such as the ones you are referring to are those that are extremely displeased with there choice. Honestly, it's to be expected given the immensity of the profession. I think for those of you making the choice, it's a good idea to get the perspective of a wide range of physicians rather than dwelling on one unhappy/happy person. Don't let their perspectives alter your actions too much tho. With everything, your experience is determined by your unique approach. If you go into your family medicine practice thinking: "I'm not going to do this ****, the pay sucks balls" then obviously you won't like it.

 

[Quadratic]

The bottom line is that everyone bitches. Bitching provides relief and in some ways a sense of accomplishment. For instance, as an undergraduate pre-med student it's easy for you to crush some high school student who wants to become a physician. Why? Because very few are ambitious enough to seek out and know the requirements ahead of time. And thus their view of themselves in a decade is dramatically different from the reality should they pursue a career in medicine. In the same manner that you can crush a high school student, med students, residents, and attendings can crush you. Why? Because being a doctor doesn't change the fact that you're human.

 

[xmsr3]

Let me share an analogy/personal story with you. Back in 8th grade, middle school, this high school teacher showed up and gave us advice about enrolling in high school classes.

I remember signing up for as many AP classes as possible because I wanted to save money and I figured I could cut a semester off of college. BUT I was really concerned about the work load. I remember telling myself that if I had to do nothing but eat, sleep and study I would do it.

Every year from then on, and ever semester in college I would sign up for the courses I needed to help on the pre-med path and I would worry about the work load.

But you know what? After the first 2-3 weeks, in which the excitement/fear of the new wears off, I would fall into a nice groove and somehow always find enough time to get all my work done, but also some time for R&R.

A couple months back my 11 year old sister, who is worried about starting middle school next year, asked me how I can stand the work load senior year of college, especially when its all science classes and involves lots of writing?

I told her, you just take it one day at a time and you somehow adapt. She dosn't believe me and thinks I am some kind of super geek who can bend time to suit my study needs.

So it is with med school and residency. From our limited pre-med perspective, when all we have to go on is limited snippets of doc shadowing and hospital volunteering and word of mouth from anonymous internet forums, (and as someone mentioned Greys Anatomy and House) med school sounds overwhelming, like your hardest semester of undergrad but *2.

Yet the failure rate for med students is 3%, so somehow they all cope and thrive. When we think about residency it sounds even more hellish. 80 hour work weeks where you are sometimes up 48 straight hours? How can anyone even stand up after that much less save lives? Yet how many people wash out of residency?

Looking back on the road that has lead us to this moment, applying to med schools or just about to, we have already done more acedemically than most people do their entire lives and for that we should be proud and amazed. I, for one, have no idea how I managed to do as well as I did and I honestly tell my friends so when they ask me for my study and time management secrets.

So my point is, fearful and ignorant that we may be about what exactly lies ahead in med school, residency and attending life, lets not forget that the 3% failure rate for med students pretty much means that anyone who gets into med school deserves to be there and can handle whatever gets thrown at them.

So just take things one step at a time, recall all the great academic feats you have already accomplished to get this far and enjoy the thrill of the challenge that lies ahead on the long road that leads to becoming a doctor.

Though the path be long, it is a very scenic and interesting route, to be sure.

 

[ensuii]

Let me share an analogy/personal story with you. Back in 8th grade, middle school, this high school teacher showed up and gave us advice about enrolling in high school classes.

I remember signing up for as many AP classes as possible because I wanted to save money and I figured I could cut a semester off of college. BUT I was really concerned about the work load. I remember telling myself that if I had to do nothing but eat, sleep and study I would do it.

Every year from then on, and ever semester in college I would sign up for the courses I needed to help on the pre-med path and I would worry about the work load.

But you know what? After the first 2-3 weeks, in which the excitement/fear of the new wears off, I would fall into a nice groove and somehow always find enough time to get all my work done, but also some time for R&R.

A couple months back my 11 year old sister, who is worried about starting middle school next year, asked me how I can stand the work load senior year of college, especially when its all science classes and involves lots of writing?

I told her, you just take it one day at a time and you somehow adapt. She dosn't believe me and thinks I am some kind of super geek who can bend time to suit my study needs.

So it is with med school and residency. From our limited pre-med perspective, when all we have to go on is limited snippets of doc shadowing and hospital volunteering and word of mouth from anonymous internet forums, (and as someone mentioned Greys Anatomy and House) med school sounds overwhelming, like your hardest semester of undergrad but *2.

Yet the failure rate for med students is 3%, so somehow they all cope and thrive. When we think about residency it sounds even more hellish. 80 hour work weeks where you are sometimes up 48 straight hours? How can anyone even stand up after that much less save lives? Yet how many people wash out of residency?

Looking back on the road that has lead us to this moment, applying to med schools or just about to, we have already done more acedemically than most people do their entire lives and for that we should be proud and amazed. I, for one, have no idea how I managed to do as well as I did and I honestly tell my friends so when they ask me for my study and time management secrets.

So my point is, fearful and ignorant that we may be about what exactly lies ahead in med school, residency and attending life, lets not forget that the 3% failure rate for med students pretty much means that anyone who gets into med school deserves to be there and can handle whatever gets thrown at them.

So just take things one step at a time, recall all the great academic feats you have already accomplished to get this far and enjoy the thrill of the challenge that lies ahead on the long road that leads to becoming a doctor.

Though the path be long, it is a very scenic and intereting route, to be sure.

👍

 

[runrunrudolph1]

Let me share an analogy/personal story with you. Back in 8th grade, middle school, this high school teacher showed up and gave us advice about enrolling in high school classes.

I remember signing up for as many AP classes as possible because I wanted to save money and I figured I could cut a semester off of college. BUT I was really concerned about the work load. I remember telling myself that if I had to do nothing but eat, sleep and study I would do it.

Every year from then on, and ever semester in college I would sign up for the courses I needed to help on the pre-med path and I would worry about the work load.

But you know what? After the first 2-3 weeks, in which the excitement/fear of the new wears off, I would fall into a nice groove and somehow always find enough time to get all my work done, but also some time for R&R.

A couple months back my 11 year old sister, who is worried about starting middle school next year, asked me how I can stand the work load senior year of college, especially when its all science classes and involves lots of writing?

I told her, you just take it one day at a time and you somehow adapt. She dosn't believe me and thinks I am some kind of super geek who can bend time to suit my study needs.

So it is with med school and residency. From our limited pre-med perspective, when all we have to go on is limited snippets of doc shadowing and hospital volunteering and word of mouth from anonymous internet forums, (and as someone mentioned Greys Anatomy and House) med school sounds overwhelming, like your hardest semester of undergrad but *2.

Yet the failure rate for med students is 3%, so somehow they all cope and thrive. When we think about residency it sounds even more hellish. 80 hour work weeks where you are sometimes up 48 straight hours? How can anyone even stand up after that much less save lives? Yet how many people wash out of residency?

Looking back on the road that has lead us to this moment, applying to med schools or just about to, we have already done more acedemically than most people do their entire lives and for that we should be proud and amazed. I, for one, have no idea how I managed to do as well as I did and I honestly tell my friends so when they ask me for my study and time management secrets.

So my point is, fearful and ignorant that we may be about what exactly lies ahead in med school, residency and attending life, lets not forget that the 3% failure rate for med students pretty much means that anyone who gets into med school deserves to be there and can handle whatever gets thrown at them.

So just take things one step at a time, recall all the great academic feats you have already accomplished to get this far and enjoy the thrill of the challenge that lies ahead on the long road that leads to becoming a doctor.

Though the path be long, it is a very scenic and interesting route, to be sure.

excellent post 👍

 

[Hoody]

Advise from Docs I know....Pick your specialty wisely. The option to switch after residency is next to none. Definitely do not pick Primary Care/Family Medicine if you're not in it pretty much solely for the patients, the heartache/headache there is pretty overwhelming right now (hopefully that changes in the future).

99% of Docs I know say they would do it all over again, even with the current state of health care. However, 100% of them say they were extremely naive going into the whole process and wish they knew more, or knew what they know now, then. About 50% of them would be in different specialties. I also know of three foreign medical grads who completed residencies and practiced in their respective countries only to come to the US and complete a US residency in a completely different specialty. So don't be closed minded about where you'll end up.

Lastly, just enjoy this time and the time that is to come (med school, residency, etc...) for it will pass too quickly in the end. 🙂

 

[Trexate]

No one is seeing the point. Please, just let this thread die.

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

Just because people aren't seeing your "point", doesn't mean good things can't come from other people stemming from your thread. Take a chill pill.

 

[Hoody]

No one is seeing the point. Please, just let this thread die.

🙁

I agree we cant be a doctor for a day, but that holds true for all professions. you never know until you're waist deep. maybe its for the best.

 

[futureboy]

Regardless of the career, you will never "know" what it is like until you actually do it. You won't know what engineering is like until you work as an engineer. You won't know what being a research PI is like until you have your own lab and are running it (notably, after 5-6 years of a PhD and several more as a post-doc). You won't know what its like to be a policeman or a fireman until you've done it. It's a leap of faith that many people take when getting into a career in which they've not done in the past.

That's why it is so important to medical schools that you research the career and understand the ups and the downs associated with it. That's the best we can do really. Ultimately, you just make the jump or stand back looking over the edge.

Very true. My field, law, is the same way. You don't really know what it's like until you stand up to make your legal arguments in front of a real judge representing a real client sitting at the trial table.

 

[niranjan162]

Let me share an analogy/personal story with you. Back in 8th grade, middle school, this high school teacher showed up and gave us advice about enrolling in high school classes.

I remember signing up for as many AP classes as possible because I wanted to save money and I figured I could cut a semester off of college. BUT I was really concerned about the work load. I remember telling myself that if I had to do nothing but eat, sleep and study I would do it.

Every year from then on, and ever semester in college I would sign up for the courses I needed to help on the pre-med path and I would worry about the work load.

But you know what? After the first 2-3 weeks, in which the excitement/fear of the new wears off, I would fall into a nice groove and somehow always find enough time to get all my work done, but also some time for R&R.

A couple months back my 11 year old sister, who is worried about starting middle school next year, asked me how I can stand the work load senior year of college, especially when its all science classes and involves lots of writing?

I told her, you just take it one day at a time and you somehow adapt. She dosn't believe me and thinks I am some kind of super geek who can bend time to suit my study needs.

So it is with med school and residency. From our limited pre-med perspective, when all we have to go on is limited snippets of doc shadowing and hospital volunteering and word of mouth from anonymous internet forums, (and as someone mentioned Greys Anatomy and House) med school sounds overwhelming, like your hardest semester of undergrad but *2.

Yet the failure rate for med students is 3%, so somehow they all cope and thrive. When we think about residency it sounds even more hellish. 80 hour work weeks where you are sometimes up 48 straight hours? How can anyone even stand up after that much less save lives? Yet how many people wash out of residency?

Looking back on the road that has lead us to this moment, applying to med schools or just about to, we have already done more acedemically than most people do their entire lives and for that we should be proud and amazed. I, for one, have no idea how I managed to do as well as I did and I honestly tell my friends so when they ask me for my study and time management secrets.

So my point is, fearful and ignorant that we may be about what exactly lies ahead in med school, residency and attending life, lets not forget that the 3% failure rate for med students pretty much means that anyone who gets into med school deserves to be there and can handle whatever gets thrown at them.

So just take things one step at a time, recall all the great academic feats you have already accomplished to get this far and enjoy the thrill of the challenge that lies ahead on the long road that leads to becoming a doctor.

Though the path be long, it is a very scenic and interesting route, to be sure.

I read this and also think youre a super geek.

The other threads were not about how the path is so impossible. Since these people are bitching about residency, we can assume they made it through med school and what not.

The point of those threads was that they thought medicine would be great and it wasnt. Im sure they did all the same pre-med crap we did before getting to medschool.

trexate I get what youre saying. These people who obviously know more about whats its like to be a resident etc. come in and tell us their opinion of it and people (pre-meds) tell said resident how full of **** they are and how theyre a baby, when they have never been through a residency themselves.

 

[xmsr3]

I read this and also think youre a super geek.

The other threads were not about how the path is so impossible. Since these people are bitching about residency, we can assume they made it through med school and what not.

The point of those threads was that they thought medicine would be great and it wasnt. Im sure they did all the same pre-med crap we did before getting to medschool.

trexate I get what youre saying. These people who obviously know more about whats its like to be a resident etc. come in and tell us their opinion of it and people (pre-meds) tell said resident how full of **** they are and how theyre a baby, when they have never been through a residency themselves.

niranjan, the point I was trying to make is that we can learn from their mistakes which was to expect happiness.

I don't, just like in my past when I expected school to be nothing but a study filled hell, that is what I expect in med school. I estimate I will have time only for eating, sleeping, studying and working out an hour/day, (gotta stay in shape for military). I estimate that once I get into med school my life will suck and suck harder than I can ever imagine.

Residency will be shear agony and I will be miserable the entire time. I will rue the day I accepted my spot in medical school and probably contemplate suicide many times.

That is what I expect, a life of anguish, misery and endless toil that leaves me begging for death.

Should conditions prove any less extreme than those I just described I shall be in for a pleasent surpirse and will actually enjoy myself.

THAT is the point of my story. If you view medicine as something that is meant to bring you happiness then you are setting yourself up for a disappointment.

But if you expect it to be hell itself, then perhaps you can not just survive, but thrive and step through the gates of hades with a smile on your face.

Besides, what do you think should be the response of pre-meds to the complaints of residents? Quit our years long journey into medicine and go for what? Law? Business? Finance? Teaching? Dance? The doctors of today were warned by their elders that medicine sucked and now we are being warned by residents and I am sure we will be warning pre-meds within a few years of the same. Its part of the circle of life and can't stop pre-meds from going into medicine or there would be no doctors left.

Name me the profession where people don't bitch about working conditions and stress.

There hasn't been a career invented where the people going in went through the process to get trained and came out saying, "that was exactly as fulfilling as I had hoped".

Heck, most sex can't even claim that😉

 

[Doodl3s]

Ironically, I decided this was too much to read at 4 a.m... so i remain 'ignorant' of the threads meaning =/

However in all those threads I wanted to say... The grass is always greener...

People, Just LIVE your F"KING life... don't read what other people write. Honestly, I want to be ignorant about it. yes WANT to be. I've shadowed, done SOME stuff, and i liked it so far. I KNOW its gonna be hard, but so was high school (back then), and so was college (which just seems easy now too) life gets harder and harder...

we adapt. We learn from mistakes. bottom line, stop reading others opinions and stick to your guns. I've wanted to do medicine since i was like 3... yes three... lol
And to be honest, other than I've always had the need to help people, I don't even know why!! but i know I love the field and thats all that matters.. nite peepz

 

[Excelsius]

Last week's thread surge of reasons why we should/should not go into medicine raised a rather interesting point. We, as pre-meds, have NO idea of what practicing medicine is really like. We discuss, at length, topics such as "Why do you like medicine?", or our opinions of a physician's career. All the while we chastize people who have actually been there when they come to the board and tell us how much it sucks for them. Clearly they have a better perspective on it than we do. Should they be whining on a pre-med forum if they aren't pre-meds? No, but they do anyway.

The point is, we are giving our opinions on something that we are inherently ignorant about. However, it seems as though we are almost required to do this throughout our lives. When you're entereing college and you have to declare a major, how do you decide? You decide based on ignorance. You may have some inkling as to what interests you, but in the end you have no way of knowing what your major will translate to in the real world.

I recently filled out a secondary that asked the old "Where are you in 10 years" question. I responded to it, honestly, suggesting where I saw myself in my medical career 10 years from now. But really, there is no way for me to know what I'll be interested in 10 years from now, or even 5 years from now. Granted, my resolve toward my end goal is driven by something different than most but still, people and their interests change.

I imagine that such a question is just to give ADCOMs another view point of who we see ourselves as. Sadly, this just perpetuates the initial problem of making decisions, assumptions, and forming opinions based on ignorance. It's inevitable that we will continue to do this, as it seems to be part of our nature at this point. Perhaps being aware that we are predisposed to making ignorant decisions will decrease the frequency with which we make them.

Just a thought.

Not all premeds are in the same boat. I wouldn't say that all of us have "no idea" about what medicine is like. This is why you shadow doctors, which should allow you to see everything the doctor does - calls to the insurance, business management, patient management, etc. If you have no idea, then you either did not shadow or did not shadow properly. And if you think that the only way someone can truly understand medicine is by practicing it, then surprise - medical students and residents have no idea what it is either. This is not the case.

 

[Excelsius]

...
So my point is, fearful and ignorant that we may be about what exactly lies ahead in med school, residency and attending life, lets not forget that the 3% failure rate for med students pretty much means that anyone who gets into med school deserves to be there and can handle whatever gets thrown at them.
...

That's a fallacy. Being able to handle the workload says nothing about deserving to become a doctor. By your argument then anyone who graduates medschool deserves to be a doctor. There are a LOT of crappy doctors out there and some of them come from high ranking schools. Given the difficulty of finding a good doctor, my small sample size says that perhaps as many as 50% of all doctors do not deserve their title. Some of the main categories of disqualification are 1.not really caring about the well-being of your patient and just doing your job and 2.lacking cognitive abilities to look beyond a textbook case disease. I don't know if this can be said any more softly, but there are a lot of *******es who are doctors. This very same trend is apparent in the allo forum right here on SDN as well. For me, one of the biggest advantages of becoming a doctor is going to be the ability to know who's who among doctors and prevent my friends/family members from visiting some of the so called doctors. I am sure that some of you had the same experience as well - you look at some of the posts of a given medstudent or even a premed and are really afraid from the prospect that the same person might one day be your doctor. Any advice given by these people falls on deaf ears, including "don't go into medicine because it is harder than quantum chromodynamics."

 

[Kaustikos]

No one is seeing the point. Please, just let this thread die.

Hey, no one understood salvadore dali's art when he first displayed it. I agree with you, somewhat, but disagree with you as well.

 

[jkurtz02]

People are only going to post if they are extremely upset (or maybe extremely happy, but my guess is a resident who is extremely happy isn't spending their limited free time on SDN). This is the same for reviews you see of anything, people only take the time if they are really upset with it and SDN is an even smaller sample than general reviews. Did you notice that all SDN seems to have get into medical school and have 3.8+, 35+ so I wouldn't worry at all about the fact so many people complain on SDN. My guess is if they didn't spend all this time on SDN that alone would make them happier because they would have an actual social life.

 

[Trexate]

Just because people aren't seeing your "point", doesn't mean good things can't come from other people stemming from your thread. Take a chill pill.

Because clearly, I am furious.

Ironically, I decided this was too much to read at 4 a.m... so i remain 'ignorant' of the threads meaning =/

Thank you for admitting this.

Not all premeds are in the same boat. I wouldn't say that all of us have "no idea" about what medicine is like. This is why you shadow doctors, which should allow you to see everything the doctor does - calls to the insurance, business management, patient management, etc. If you have no idea, then you either did not shadow or did not shadow properly. And if you think that the only way someone can truly understand medicine is by practicing it, then surprise - medical students and residents have no idea what it is either. This is not the case.

*slams head on desk, repeatedly*
Kudos to quoting me out of context. You'll have a bright future as a pastor. I'm not saying pre-meds don't know what medicine is like. We all know what a doctor does. What we don't know is what it is like actually practicing medicine. A third person perspective is no substitute for the real thing.

Hey, no one understood salvadore dali's art when he first displayed it. I agree with you, somewhat, but disagree with you as well.

Fair enough.


Follow me on this one. This thread had almost NOTHING to do with medicine. I was using examples from the forum to illustrate a point. The point being, in life we are forced to make ignorant decisions, statements, etc. However, the more we do this the more it becomes second nature. By being aware that we are doing this perhaps we can decrease the amount of ignorant decisions, statements, etc. that we make UNNECESSARILY. Of course I expect the general sentiment to be somewhere along the lines of "I don't make unnecessary ignorant decisions or statements."

The more you think you know, the less you really do.

 

[jaxasp]

trexate, i hate your picture so badly and you are posting like 20 times a day, is that on topic?
JUNE 18 MCAT gods please release your score to me already

 

[futureboy]

Because clearly, I am furious.


*slams head on desk, repeatedly*
Kudos to quoting me out of context. You'll have a bright future as a pastor. I'm not saying pre-meds don't know what medicine is like. We all know what a doctor does. What we don't know is what it is like actually practicing medicine. A third person perspective is no substitute for the real thing.



Fair enough.


Follow me on this one. This thread had almost NOTHING to do with medicine. I was using examples from the forum to illustrate a point. The point being, in life we are forced to make ignorant decisions, statements, etc. However, the more we do this the more it becomes second nature. By being aware that we are doing this perhaps we can decrease the amount of ignorant decisions, statements, etc. that we make UNNECESSARILY. Of course I expect the general sentiment to be somewhere along the lines of "I don't make unnecessary ignorant decisions or statements."

The more you think you know, the less you really do.

I don't understand why you are so upset. This is an open forum, and you can't (and shouldn't expect to) control what responses you get.

Regarding your point, there is always a degree of ignorance in decision making because we simply cannot know the future (unless you build a time machine out of a DeLorean). We just have to do our due diligence and make the best decision we can with the information available to us at the time.

Life is difficult and unpredictible, and there is almost always something unexpected that happens along the way. Also, your perspective often changes as you get older. Things that are important to you at 22 may not be so important to you at 42 (my age next month), and vice versa. Maybe when you're 42 you will look back and think your decision to go to medical school was a good decision, maybe you'll think it wasn't. You won't know until you get there.

In the mean time, relax, and enjoy the journey!

 

[Kaustikos]

Follow me on this one. This thread had almost NOTHING to do with medicine. I was using examples from the forum to illustrate a point. The point being, in life we are forced to make ignorant decisions, statements, etc. However, the more we do this the more it becomes second nature. By being aware that we are doing this perhaps we can decrease the amount of ignorant decisions, statements, etc. that we make UNNECESSARILY. Of course I expect the general sentiment to be somewhere along the lines of "I don't make unnecessary ignorant decisions or statements."

The more you think you know, the less you really do.

I understand your point. My conclusions are derived from years of research dealing with people complaining about their situations. I may be ignorant (I might even read these posts 5 years and say 'damn, shut this stupid person up') but I'll take the risk. I've tried to be resistant and hesitant and allow them the opportunity to present their arguement. But, in the end, it seems that their complaints are sourced from entities that are found everywhere in the workplace. I'm hearing the same argument from the cook at McDonalds for christ sake.

 

[Trexate]

trexate, i hate your picture so badly and you are posting like 20 times a day, is that on topic?
JUNE 18 MCAT gods please release your score to me already

QQ

I'm not upset. I actually find it interesting the different tangents people go on. It speaks volumes about their mindsets.

But, in the end, it seems that their complaints are sourced from entities that are found everywhere in the workplace. I'm hearing the same argument from the cook at McDonalds for christ sake.

QFT

 

[futureboy]

I've tried to be resistant and hesitant and allow them the opportunity to present their arguement. But, in the end, it seems that their complaints are sourced from entities that are found everywhere in the workplace. I'm hearing the same argument from the cook at McDonalds for christ sake.

Yes, people in all fields complain about their jobs.

 

[Mombosuthu]

Because clearly, I am furious.



Thank you for admitting this.



*slams head on desk, repeatedly*
Kudos to quoting me out of context. You'll have a bright future as a pastor. I'm not saying pre-meds don't know what medicine is like. We all know what a doctor does. What we don't know is what it is like actually practicing medicine. A third person perspective is no substitute for the real thing.



Fair enough.


Follow me on this one. This thread had almost NOTHING to do with medicine. I was using examples from the forum to illustrate a point. The point being, in life we are forced to make ignorant decisions, statements, etc. However, the more we do this the more it becomes second nature. By being aware that we are doing this perhaps we can decrease the amount of ignorant decisions, statements, etc. that we make UNNECESSARILY. Of course I expect the general sentiment to be somewhere along the lines of "I don't make unnecessary ignorant decisions or statements."

The more you think you know, the less you really do.

I agree a lot with what you said. I know that a lot of Pre-Meds have shadowed, researched and stuff, but that does not give them the necessary knowledge to argue with someone who has done it, and says it sucks or something. You can choose not to believe them and form your own opinions based on other things, but you can't argue that the residents/med students do not know what they're saying.

 

[niranjan162]

niranjan, the point I was trying to make is that we can learn from their mistakes which was to expect happiness.

I don't, just like in my past when I expected school to be nothing but a study filled hell, that is what I expect in med school. I estimate I will have time only for eating, sleeping, studying and working out an hour/day, (gotta stay in shape for military). I estimate that once I get into med school my life will suck and suck harder than I can ever imagine.

Residency will be shear agony and I will be miserable the entire time. I will rue the day I accepted my spot in medical school and probably contemplate suicide many times.

That is what I expect, a life of anguish, misery and endless toil that leaves me begging for death.

Should conditions prove any less extreme than those I just described I shall be in for a pleasent surpirse and will actually enjoy myself.

THAT is the point of my story. If you view medicine as something that is meant to bring you happiness then you are setting yourself up for a disappointment.

But if you expect it to be hell itself, then perhaps you can not just survive, but thrive and step through the gates of hades with a smile on your face.

Besides, what do you think should be the response of pre-meds to the complaints of residents? Quit our years long journey into medicine and go for what? Law? Business? Finance? Teaching? Dance? The doctors of today were warned by their elders that medicine sucked and now we are being warned by residents and I am sure we will be warning pre-meds within a few years of the same. Its part of the circle of life and can't stop pre-meds from going into medicine or there would be no doctors left.

Name me the profession where people don't bitch about working conditions and stress.

There hasn't been a career invented where the people going in went through the process to get trained and came out saying, "that was exactly as fulfilling as I had hoped".

Heck, most sex can't even claim that😉

That sounds pretty horrible. Life is a journey not a destination. If you look at everything as some sort of life sucking, ball crushing endeavor, youre gonna miss the journey.

There is nothing where people dont bitch about. However, my point is that pre-meds shouldnt rip apart residents when they are complaining about being residents.

First, the pre-meds have no idea to very little idea whats its like to be a resident.

second, its the guys opinion of residency. Maybe if these people had some frame to repudiate with their own opinion, but they dont. Its like me reviewing a movie without seeing it.

Third, when the people who are ahead of us see how much we dont listen or even chastize, they are less likely to come to the pre-allo and give us information. Just because people say things you dont like to hear, doesnt mean its not useful. No, dont form your opinion on what one person says; but if no one will come talk to you, you cant build up a consensus.

The difference between medicine and most other jobs, is that most people just do the job to earn a living and support themselves. For some reason most pre-meds forget this. Its nice to like your work. I for one expect to have some good days, but i kno that most of the days will probably be unenjoyable.

 

[niranjan162]

I say we all revive this post in five years and give our opinions from now and then. Maybe that will help other potential pre-meds.

This will be the time capsule of threads.

 

[275079]

Let me get this straight: you don't know what something's like until you do it?

My God that's profound.

Thanks for the gem OP. Please continue blessing the forums with any further insights that are borne from your gifted mind.

 

[Trexate]

Let me get this straight: you don't know what something's like until you do it?

My God that's profound.

Thanks for the gem OP. Please continue blessing the forums with any further insights that are borne from your gifted mind.

Will do. Reading comprehension FTL.

 

[275079]

Will do. Reading comprehension FTL.

I like your avatar. So even if your post was stupid, and it was, that redeems you in my mind.

Truce.

 

[Trexate]

I like your avatar. So even if your post was stupid, and it was, that redeems you in my mind.

Truce.

Agreed.