I'm 38 and unhappy

[jcs007]

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So here I am. I'm married, 38, working as a RN, completing my FNP, and realizing that my ultimate goal many years ago was to be a MD.

Here's my question. My undergraduate years were scattered. I was married once before and so have three different names on my transcripts dating back to the 80s from 5 different schools (my spouse moved a lot for his job).

What are my chances of re-entering undergrad school, redoing the whole thing with a focus on pre-med, and applying to universities? Would I have to present my past history with an explanation or just send them the new transcripts?

Surely, they'll be able to do a quick check and see that I earned an RN/FNP. But would med schools be willing to accept a retake of my new undergraduate education and give me a chance to enter?

Just looking for opinions, bad or good. I'm realizing my dream now to make a change in my life.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Law2Doc]

So here I am. I'm married, 38, working as a RN, completing my FNP, and realizing that my ultimate goal many years ago was to be a MD.

Here's my question. My undergraduate years were scattered. I was married once before and so have three different names on my transcripts dating back to the 80s from 5 different schools (my spouse moved a lot for his job).

What are my chances of re-entering undergrad school, redoing the whole thing with a focus on pre-med, and applying to universities? Would I have to present my past history with an explanation or just send them the new transcripts?

Surely, they'll be able to do a quick check and see that I earned an RN/FNP. But would med schools be willing to accept a retake of my new undergraduate education and give me a chance to enter?

Just looking for opinions, bad or good. I'm realizing my dream now to make a change in my life.

Thanks in advance!

When applying to med school, you will be asked to provide copies of transcripts from ever college you ever attended, and so all these schools and GPAs will be part of your application. You may still be required to take/retake some things due to how long ago things were, but for MD schools, you don't get to replace old grades with new, they just average into the mix. For DO schools, a retake will replace a bad grade, so you can improve GPA faster in this path. Just bear in mind that it's going to be a long path and a lot of work, and that your past is part of your application record which sticks with you.

 

[njbmd]

Every course that you have taken since graduation from secondary school will be counted and scrutinized by any medical school that you apply to. Of course, you can start over and recent coursework if excellent will definitely work in your favor. What you have to ask yourself is why you are attempting to enter medicine? What will medicine offer you in terms of career and what do you have to offer medicine? You NEED to have solid answers to these questions because they will be asked of you at every step of this process.

Sit down and make yourself an Excel spreadsheet. Calculate your undergraduate GPA and your graduate GPA separately. Armed with this information, figure out what your uGPA will become once you have taken the pre-med coursework. Graduate coursework does not add to uGPA but post bacc (formal or informal) will boost your uGPA if excellent (no grade less than B+).

In addition to the pre-med courses, what additional coursework will you need such as math or genetics for the medical schools that you are interested in attending and applying. Check their websites for additional courses that they require.

Finally, realize that it take minimally two years to complete the pre-med coursework and somewhat longer if you are working full-time. If you are working full-time, don't load up with pre-med courses and wind up not having enough time to thoroughly master this material and do excellent in the classes. If you have uGPA "damage control", you have to take your time and do well. In addition, you have to do well on the Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT) which takes a thorough knowledge base that you can apply to problem-solving. Again, slow, steady and excellent work is the way to obtain and hone this knowledge base.

Being "unhappy" is not a compelling reason to undertake preparation for medicine. You may find that you have traded one unhappiness for a second type of unhappiness that is far more expensive. Be sure that you know every aspect of medicine and preparing for medical school because you have to meet and exceed every deadline and challenge in this process. If you have a genuine desire, a willingness to work hard and a very objective and clear perspective of what you want and what you are willing to do to obtain it, then medicine may be a better choice for you. Good luck!

 

[medmom]

I would say that honestly you need to sit down and figure out why you REALLY want to make the switch. Judging by your current successes I am guessing that this may be more of an ego issue. Unless you think with ABSOLUTE sureness that you want to go into something other than family med or peds I would strongly discourage you from making the switch. I LOVE what I am doing but it is a hard and expensive road. Honestly there are many times that I think I should have finished my nursing degree and just went with the FNP. In a couple of years you will happily be seeing patients and taking home a nice paycheck. If you switch you have another 7+ years of being stressed, still in school and still poor. Otherwise, if there is anyway you can be happy where you are, stay put. Enjoy your patients and life!

 

[saidel273]

At 38, one should realize that there is a finite amount of time left in one's life. A medical training will take a least a decade.... Are you willing to give up this much time of whatever you have left for an MD degree? Ater 32-33.. medical training does not make any sense. Look around harder and you will find tons of ways to make yourself happier...

 

[Nanon]

At 38, one should realize that there is a finite amount of time left in one's life. A medical training will take a least a decade.... Are you willing to give up this much time of whatever you have left for an MD degree? Ater 32-33.. medical training does not make any sense. Look around harder and you will find tons of ways to make yourself happier...

I'm 39 and applying to medical school right now. There are people on this board who started their surgical residencies in their 40's and 50's, and I work for a woman who started her surgical residency in her late 30's, and she is now an academic trauma surgeon doing amazing research. (She also advised me to go for it and apply, so at least she thinks this makes sense...)

So, in my experience, for some people, starting one's medical training after 32 or 33 has made perfect sense. But... I would also advise the OP to think very carefully about this decision, because it's a tough road to hoe. And with your current degrees, there are a lot of opportunities for autonomy in your career, and the pay doesn't suck, either.

JM.02

S.

 

[DrMidlife]

At 38, one should realize that there is a finite amount of time left in one's life. A medical training will take a least a decade.... Are you willing to give up this much time of whatever you have left for an MD degree? Ater 32-33.. medical training does not make any sense. Look around harder and you will find tons of ways to make yourself happier...

It might not make sense to you, and you can think whatever you like. But there's a vascular surgeon up above (njbmd) who started med school at 45, this former engineer is starting med school at 43, and there are at least a dozen others, just in the nontrad forum, starting over 40. We have a marathon-running mother of 3 (?) starting at 50 this week. And we certainly have older nontrads in residency et al who are not happy they chose medicine at all, just like lots of the kids who are looking for career changes OUT of medicine.

Compare a 20 year old's motivation to pursue medicine, which can only come from a shallow and naive understanding of how the world works, and from parental pressure, with a 40 year old's motivation, which comes from deep experience in at least one other career, a lifetime of met-or-dashed personal expectations, endless struggles against administrativia, decades of falling down and getting back up and paying taxes, and (one would hope) sufficient cynicism to avoid pursuing medicine for the false hope that it will bring instant bountiful happiness/fun/prestige/humanitarianism/satisfaction. The over-40 candidate actually knows what he/she is getting into - and still wants to get into it - this is a bonus, no? There will never be an abundance of over-40 med school candidates because most folks over-40 don't WANT this - but those of us who do want it don't fit in your partitioning system.

In other words, whatever your understanding of life over 50 is, you might want to expand it.

Best of luck to you.

 

[saidel273]

It might not make sense to you, and you can think whatever you like. But there's a vascular surgeon up above (njbmd) who started med school at 45, this former engineer is starting med school at 43, and there are at least a dozen others, just in the nontrad forum, starting over 40. We have a marathon-running mother of 3 (?) starting at 50 this week. And we certainly have older nontrads in residency et al who are not happy they chose medicine at all, just like lots of the kids who are looking for career changes OUT of medicine.

Compare a 20 year old's motivation to pursue medicine, which can only come from a shallow and naive understanding of how the world works, and from parental pressure, with a 40 year old's motivation, which comes from deep experience in at least one other career, a lifetime of met-or-dashed personal expectations, endless struggles against administrativia, decades of falling down and getting back up and paying taxes, and (one would hope) sufficient cynicism to avoid pursuing medicine for the false hope that it will bring instant bountiful happiness/fun/prestige/humanitarianism/satisfaction. The over-40 candidate actually knows what he/she is getting into - and still wants to get into it - this is a bonus, no? There will never be an abundance of over-40 med school candidates because most folks over-40 don't WANT this - but those of us who do want it don't fit in your partitioning system.

In other words, whatever your understanding of life over 50 is, you might want to expand it.

Best of luck to you.

You obviously know what is best for you and what will make you happy.

My point was that at the end of the day medicine is only a job. Overtime, a job becomes tedious due to the repetitive nature of your daily work, and whatever excitment one may have about a job will slowly wane down... There are exceptions of course as some people have deep affections to what they do.

As you know, medicine is a long and difficult path. And if you are older, it entails great sacrifices like living in poverty, less time with family, doing less for your kids.... But hey, if one is willing to go down this road later in life, then more power to you and I wish you nothing but success and happiness.

 

[Law2Doc]

...And if you are older, it entails great sacrifices like living in poverty, less time with family, doing less for your kids.... But hey, if one is willing to go down this road later in life, then more power to you and I wish you nothing but success and happiness.

I think you need to step back and realize that everyone comes from different paths, and your vantage point really isn't the norm. Living in poverty is frequently not the case for nontrads -- many have had prior successful careers and money in the bank, even more have spouses with successful careers. It is the young trads who are more likely subjected to poverty during the residency years, not the dual income or prior income crowd. Similarly in terms of time with family, you probably see far more folks with young kids in the under 35 crowd than the over 35.

Your 32 year old cut-off is sort of absurd, and certainly deemed so by every adcom in the nation. Folks work into their 70s these days. So we are talking about a 30 year post-residency career even if a 32 year old takes a decade to get educated. That is actually a longer career than folks had back in the day when it was common to retire at 55. I personally would say that the cut-off at which point medical training makes no sense is probably sometime in one's 50s-60s. These folks are a rarity in med school, both for self selection, and adcom selection reasons. But even these folks have more productive medical careers than the handful of trads who opt not to do a residency and try to use their degree for something else (there are a number of active threads on folks who want to do this on some of the other boards). To me, the young person who takes up a seat and never practices is far more of a problem for the profession than an older person who only has a 10 year post-residency career but benefits the profession during that short time.

 

[DrMidlife]

You obviously know what is best...

I think you need to step back...

In defense of saidel273, I still think that the best advice for ANYBODY who is thinking about a medical career is the old standard:

If there's anything else you could see yourself doing happily, for the love of all that's holy, do the other thing.

 

[engineeredout]

If there's anything else you could see yourself doing happily, for the love of all that's holy, do the other thing.

You know what, you're right. I'd be much happier drinking scotch right now than studying mcat. Thanks for the encouragement 👍

 

[take the shot]

At 38, one should realize that there is a finite amount of time left in one's life. A medical training will take a least a decade.... Are you willing to give up this much time of whatever you have left for an MD degree? Ater 32-33.. medical training does not make any sense. Look around harder and you will find tons of ways to make yourself happier...

Good thing no one ever told that to Dara Torres (41 yo who is on the Olympics swim team) or John McCain. Where does it say that age should prevent you from going after your dreams?

If you think of going into medicine as "just a job", you are missing the boat. I am an acute care nurse practitioner and take care of pts in the hospital. I want to go to med school as I hate the lack of knowledge base that keeps me from being the best clinician I can possibly be. I am also in my 40s and medicine burns inside me. I love it so much that going to work never feels like a job, just something I love to do. I am also your worse pre-med competition nightmare come true: I am the quiet, older one getting the top grades in the class in all of the prereqs. I am the one with more energy than anyone. I am the one the admissions committees said they thought was a "great candidate". Although I wish I had done this when I was in my 20s, I can tell you I would have made a horrible physician then as I was incredibly irresponsible and immature. Although I have surely met several awesome young med students/residents, there are also those who complain constantly about the challenges they face and say if they had to do it over they wouldn't. I KNOW what I am getting myself into.

I surely can appreciate your view as to be frank with you, I might have thought the same thing about a 40 year old candidate in my 20s. Unfortunately, different events in my life interfered with me doing this any earlier (death of my 1st husband from leukemia, raising a child as a single parent). But while the 20-30 something yr old med student/residents are looking for marriage, kids, houses and everything else they missed out during their medical training, I already have those things: grown children that I adore, great husband, beautiful home. My family really believes in me and supports me. I can be completely focused on studying as I am I dedicated to achieving this goal. I agree with the person who said most people in their 40s don't do this cause they don't want to put in the effort...it is incredibly intense. But I have never fit in with the 'ladies who lunch crowd'...I am deeply analytical, love biochemical mechanisms, and am incredibly healthy. I no longer want to go drink and play like I used to, feeling the need to prove myself interpersonally. It's about going after what you want in life, never ever having regrets.

 

[Nasem]

I don't really think there is anything wrong with switching from a nurse to MD (or DO) or whatever a person wishes…. Maybe it's a ego thing, maybe it's the more $$$ thing, maybe its just because the person wants to have more responsibilities than a nurse, whatever the reason is, its still a reason that drives the individual…. Who are the adcoms to judge and discriminate against someone's reason's…. Not every 22 year old who enters into medicine is a "oh I just wanna help others and save lives" (BULL$!!!!), adcoms know more than 90% of the younger pre-meds wanna go into medicine for the "wrong" reasons (if such really exists) and still accept them….

Every med student I talk to about their interview day tell me how to always "try" to sound like you like helping others when asked questions about why they want to go into medicine, even one of them treated me like I didn't know anything and told me "make sure you don't tell them your doing it for the money or anything shallow like that, or they will never accept you" lol…. I asked that same student what he wants to be when he finishes med school, here is what he said (I'll summarize his answer) "I just wanna go into a field that pays the most money and requires me to work the least amount, most likely, I'll end up in dermatology"…. I think some med students are just as shallow as their pre-med counter-parts

I am not gonna talk about the "reasons" for wanting to go to medicine, But I guarantee you, if medical doctors got paid the same amount as software engineers (like myself), you'd see a HUGEEE decline in number of applicants to medicine even if the tuition costs just as much as an engineering degree

 

[Law2Doc]

adcoms know more than 90% of the younger pre-meds wanna go into medicine for the “wrong” reasons (if such really exists) and still accept them….

I don't know what percentage of the applicant pool is in it for the wrong reasons, but fortunately the percentage of younger premeds who actually get into med school for the wrong reasons does not appear to be nearly that high. I suspect a large percentage of the folks with wrong reasons self select out before application time, and many who do apply end up in the 50% of applicants who don't get into med school.
Once in med school, you will meet tons of folks who are into the lesser paid specialties, and flock to those groups' meetings from the first week of school. There will be no shortage of folks who take options like tuition forgiveness in return for an obligation to work with the underserved. You will meet lots of people who are really into hanging out and rapping with the patients, not rushing through the exam. You will meet people who seem genuinely interested in various topics unrelated to "where it will get them". And many of those who flock to things like derm will do so for family planning reasons more than "the money". In truth, once you get into med school, you will have a very different view of salaries, because frankly you will become acutely aware of the long long long road of sub-minimum-wage you are going to go through before you have any sort of decent income. So anyone misguidedly in it for the money squelches these fruitless desires early on. So yeah, once you get to med school you will feel a renewed optimism for the profession and the ability of adcoms to do their job of weeding out the undesirables. I am often impressed by the quality of the trads my school has selected; much better focused and probably better people than I was at that age.

 

[QofQuimica]

I am often impressed by the quality of the trads my school has selected; much better focused and probably better people than I was at that age.

Agree.

Sure, there are always a few people (of all ages) in your class who make you wonder what the adcom was smoking when they got admitted. But on the whole, the trads are not your typical 22 or 23-year-olds. They are very bright, motivated, and highly accomplished people in their own right. Some have experiences that would easily put many nontrads to shame. If you don't understand what I mean yet, all I can say is prepare yourself to be amazed. 🙂

 

[Nasem]

Law2Doc,

I always enjoy reading your posts, and it is a little strange to me that your tone is so positive about the subject, maybe its the different schools / locations.... But I have talked to MANY med students (majority in person) from wayne state and MSUCHM, and I really didn't find anyone who shared the same perspective about this topic.... I am not even talking about students who just got accpeted, I been talking to students who were in thier first and 2nd years......

Perhaps, the "maturity" you speak off doesn't hit till the student enters into thier rotation years and in which case, there isn't much I can say, I don't know anyone whos in thier 3rd or 4th years

 

[Law2Doc]

Law2Doc,

I always enjoy reading your posts, and it is a little strange to me that your tone is so positive about the subject, maybe its the different schools / locations.... ...

Perhaps, the "maturity" you speak off doesn't hit till the student enters into thier rotation years and in which case, there isn't much I can say, I don't know anyone whos in thier 3rd or 4th years

It's not something I observed just in the clinical years, you see this early on in first year. I guess it's strange seeing me positive about folks motivations in med school because I am very hard on premeds with the wrong motivations. A lot of these premeds get eliminated early on in the process I suspect, or they wise up somewhere along the line. I personally think someone going to med school "for the money is a fool" -- there are much better and quicker ways to make a lot of money -- I certainly was successfully on such a path at one point. It got old for me. But fortunately most of the people I've met in med school seem genuinely into the subject matter and tasks involved, not the rewards they someday may glean. Perhaps once you see the long long road unfolding in front of you you revamp your motivations to something not so remote, I don't know. But you won't come across med students counting their future income the way folks seem to do in premed.
There are absolutely folks with screwed up motivations, but they seem to be a tiny tiny minority in med school, and I suspect those are the ones who end up coming back to SDN and whining about how things weren't what they expected. All I can say is I was pleasantly surprised by my traditional colleagues.

 

[lexrageorge]

To Law2Doc's point, the medical training process is long and arduous. Hell, even the application process requires a number of hoops to jump through. These facts do, I believe, tend to "weed out" those pre-meds who really aren't interested in doing the work it takes to be a doctor. Between vetting personal statements, interviews, and past experiences (clinical and non-clinical), the adcoms are also able to do a good job in the weed out process as well. That doesn't mean everyone in med school is a good person, or is there for the right reason, or will never eventually entertain changing their career (browse the residency forums for lots of stories about MD/DO's changing their minds later in life). Hey, life happens.

OTOH, you will find very few med students who would jump up in joy if told that, due to an act of Congress, doctor salaries will from now on be capped at $75K. In fact, I agree with Nasem that you would see lots of students jump ship fairly quickly, along with a lot of practitioners as well. That doesn't mean they are solely in it for the money. But, noone expects to go through this process so they can take a vow of poverty either. While the monetary rewards are certainly not the only motivating factor for most students, nor should they be (for lots of reasons), they certainly are a signifcant factor.

 

[take the shot]

OTOH, you will find very few med students who would jump up in joy if told that, due to an act of Congress, doctor salaries will from now on be capped at $75K. In fact, I agree with Nasem that you would see lots of students jump ship fairly quickly, along with a lot of practitioners as well. That doesn't mean they are solely in it for the money. But, noone expects to go through this process so they can take a vow of poverty either. While the monetary rewards are certainly not the only motivating factor for most students, nor should they be (for lots of reasons), they certainly are a signifcant factor.

I think it is unfortunate that salaries have dropped for physicians. The amount of work to achieve this goal is extraordinary, without compare in the business sector. Additionally, patients frequently make derogatory comments like, my doctor says I need surgery....guess he needs a new car. Historically, physicians were thought of as having a prestigious career with financial compensation that correlated. Things have really changed: some friends of mine who are new docs have received salary offers less than what I make as an NP.

Despite this, I still want to go to med school. This is where that issue of "medicine is just a job" plays in. As 'just a job', the hard work would not be worth it. I am going after what I am passionate about, what I haven't been able to stop dreaming about for the past 20 years. In reality, I will probably be losing money if I balance the salary I am giving up with how much it costs to go to med school and the relatively low salaries of residency. But you can't put a price on the cost to your soul when you don't follow your heart and go after what it has always wanted. So I would definitely not be one of the ones 'jumping ship'. Life is waaaay too short to spend time doing something just for money but that you don't really enjoy.

 

[Goobster20]

Sit down and make yourself an Excel spreadsheet. Calculate your undergraduate GPA and your graduate GPA separately. Armed with this information, figure out what your uGPA will become once you have taken the pre-med coursework. Graduate coursework does not add to uGPA but post bacc (formal or informal) will boost your uGPA if excellent (no grade less than B+).

If the graduate coursework is not factored into the uGPA, is there anywhere on the application where I can include the graduate GPA? I have a relatively low uGPA, but a nice graduate GPA.

 

[DrMidlife]

If the graduate coursework is not factored into the uGPA, is there anywhere on the application where I can include the graduate GPA? I have a relatively low uGPA, but a nice graduate GPA.

Sure, you're expected to list every college course you ever took, undergrad or grad, and submit every transcript.

But please pay attention to what's being said all over the place on SDN: your undergrad GPA and MCAT determine how you are compared to other applicants. A strong graduate GPA does not repair a weak undergrad GPA.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Goobster20]

Thanks, midlife. If uGPA and MCAT are pretty much 95% of your make-up and how your application is compared to others, then I don't understand why anyone would ever attend a graduate program to boost their application. I wish someone would have told me that when I was deciding what to do after graduation a couple of years ago.

 

[DrMidlife]

Thanks, midlife. If uGPA and MCAT are pretty much 95% of your make-up and how your application is compared to others, then I don't understand why anyone would ever attend a graduate program to boost their application. I wish someone would have told me that when I was deciding what to do after graduation a couple of years ago.

Yeah, sorry that happened. I don't understand how anybody got into med school before SDN.

There is a class of grad programs that are aimed at med school applicants, where you effectively take the first year of med school to prove you can handle it. There's a ton of info on these programs in the postbac forum.

 

[njbmd]

Thanks, midlife. If uGPA and MCAT are pretty much 95% of your make-up and how your application is compared to others, then I don't understand why anyone would ever attend a graduate program to boost their application. I wish someone would have told me that when I was deciding what to do after graduation a couple of years ago.

That is the idea. You attend graduate school because you WANT a GRADUATE degree and not because you are trying to do "damage control" to make yourself more competitive for medical school. The only graduate work that can help boost your competitiveness for medical school are grade-enhancing Special Masters Programs (SMPs) that are designed for that purpose.

In the case of the SMPs (expensive and very, very challenging), you generally take the same coursework as first-year medical students. If you perform very, very well in one of these programs, you can boost your competitiveness for entering medical school. If you don't perform well, and SMP is essentially a "kiss of death" where you end up with a non-thesis masters in Physiology.

Will your graduate degree hurt your chances? No, but you won't see the boost that you were expecting. At this point, apply with what you have (please be sure that your MCAT is very, very strong) and see what happens. You should apply broadly (MD and DO) and make sure that the rest of your application is very strong.

It's been said over and over, graduate school (with the exception of SMPs) does NOT offset a poor undergraduate GPA. You can raise your uGPA by doing post-bacc work, which is a slow and tedious process with limits too.

 

[karioka7007]

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If you have more questions email me 👍

 

[Old_Mil]

I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses to "can I get into medical school?" So I'll respond to your observation that you're unhappy.

"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without."

If you're unhappy as an RN, you'll be unhappy as an NP or an MD. It is an illusion to think that a different job (or a different house, or living in a different city, or driving a different car) can bring us happiness.

 

[chopstick1]

I am an RN and started med school at 33, my friend a LPN started at 35, my class has people that are are 40's and 50's. so don't worry about age. just get your pre reqs done and good luck on the mcat! 👍 feel free to PM me

 

[ExtremeUnderdog]

I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses to "can I get into medical school?" So I'll respond to your observation that you're unhappy.

"Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without."

If you're unhappy as an RN, you'll be unhappy as an NP or an MD. It is an illusion to think that a different job (or a different house, or living in a different city, or driving a different car) can bring us happiness.

Regardless of the amount of joi de vivre, or optimism (even Leibnitzian), or inner peace, or whatever other elements of happiness/enlightenment/higher consciousness, etc. one possesses, there are certain needs, which, if not met, will preclude a person from feeling happy/fulfilled in life (no matter how often we repeat any number of platitudes). A crude example of such a need is physical safety - a person who is being physically harmed cannot feel happy (no matter how much "peace" they possess "within"). A more abstract need is intellectual fulfillment - a person cannot feel fully happy if his/her mind is not engaged in a meaningful/fulfilling for him/her way. An even more abstract need is self-actualization - understanding one's own potential, identifying the path leading to the realization of that potential, and having the capacity and drive to reach fulfillment. Needless to say, in all cases one's ability to meet one's needs is dependent on the individual's personality, choices and actions (that's the part of happiness that comes from within and is determined solely by the individual), however, it is also dependent on the circumstances/events/reality that surround the individual and may be in part or in whole outside the individual's control.

If a person is unhappy being an RN, they may very well be quite happy as an MD. I certainly know that I would be equally unhappy as a plumber or an RN - this does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that I am an unhappy person, or that I would be unhappy as an MD and a poet/writer (unless I become one of those hungry poets 😉 ).

 

[Decepticon]

First step to become happy is to address the what's and why's.
What do you need?
-money
-degree
-status
-having accomplished something.
-something to do that is more fun

Then comes the question why. The reason you ask the question why, is to feel more confident in your needs, and to see if there is a way you might be able to change your needs, if they are destructive. It isn't always possible.
Why's:
- My self confidence has taken a dent. I had a boss who wouldn't ask me for help but asked a colleague instead, and it gave me the feeling that I was stupid, and by becoming a doctor, I will prove that I am not stupid, but someone worthy of respect.
- I had a teacher who didn't have any faith in me, and said to my face I wouldn't amount to anything, and I will show him that I am someone worthy of appraisal.
- I have never had people looking up to me in my life, and doctors are people that are well-looked upon in society.
- My parents-in-law are making spiteful comments that I have problems coping with, without looking like I am defending myself, and these remarks hurt.
- I have any other narcissistic need to be admired.
- I can't like myself, if I don't have a trait or a profession that is considered better than average.
- I can't face turning old and dying without having done anything of importance or anything that people will remember me for.
- I like the lab coat.
- I like to hit people repeatedly with a hammer, or stick my fingers up their a$ses.
- My identity is dependent on my work, and I like the doctor identity better than my current identity.
- I would like to hold a lecture, and be the showmaster on an international conference.
- I want the nobel price.
- I want more money.
[EDIT]

- I want more authority
- I like this [insert here] tv doc, and I am gonna be just like him/her.
- I want my name on a disease. Preferably an awful one.

Unlike many other [weasel word] on this board, I am gonna tell you that I think all of the above reasons are acceptable. Why should they not be acceptable? They are reasons, whether you accept them or not. If you can find a way that is sure to satisfy these needs, then go for it!! Nothing says you can't both fulfill those needs, and attenuate e.g the inferiority complexes simultaneously. But if what you think you need is a substitute for something else, than you are not very much likely to find happiness in pursuing a new goal, so then you should confront that "something else." And if your goals are too high to be accomplished, you try, and you fail, your self-worth might take another blow. So if there is no chance you can succeed, there would be a better option to find another way to deal with the origin of your needs. If you can. My 2cents.

 

[Discchic]

Maybe I'm naive but I find it a little funny that everyone always talks about the road to becoming an MD as a decade long (at least) adventure. But, don't you start getting paid, decently by most standards, as a resident? To me, title means nothing. If you are working and earning a paycheck then who cares how long it takes to complete your residency. I'm 28 and I guess I've never thought of 40 as being too old. I'm not in med school and I have had several careers. So I guess, it's confusing to me how the general view is that everyone that goes to med school will be poor for years and have huge student loans. There are a gazillion scholarships and grants available to most and I for one have an extremely supportive husband that will see me through it. The road doesn't seem that scary to me, just exciting.

 

[Discchic]

As a side note. It has always bothered me a little that at 18 kids have to basically choose a career path to follow. Seriously, at 18 do you really have a clue what that means? I understand some 18 year olds might but the majority are completely clueless and just doing what their parents want them to. This is the biggest reason I hate school. I sit in these classrooms with a bunch of kids that have no life experience and think they know everything. What's worse is that you have math teachers (and others) molding these juvenile minds and discussing politics rather than teaching. So now, we have a bunch of kids running around regurgitating what some professor said just because that is their biggest influence. It's very frustrating.

 

[DrMidlife]

Maybe I'm naive but I find it a little funny that everyone always talks about the road to becoming an MD as a decade long (at least) adventure. But, don't you start getting paid, decently by most standards, as a resident? To me, title means nothing. If you are working and earning a paycheck then who cares how long it takes to complete your residency. I'm 28 and I guess I've never thought of 40 as being too old. I'm not in med school and I have had several careers. So I guess, it's confusing to me how the general view is that everyone that goes to med school will be poor for years and have huge student loans. There are a gazillion scholarships and grants available to most and I for one have an extremely supportive husband that will see me through it. The road doesn't seem that scary to me, just exciting.

I have very much the same attitude: that it'll all work out. But a lot of that attitude (for me) is denial, because the real numbers really are scary. First year residents make $30k to $40k, which means you absolutely MUST have loan deferment, which is in constant federal jeopardy. Those loans? When newspapers lately are trying to make the debt sound scary they quote a number like $150k after graduation, but that averages in all the free ride folks who get military scholarships etc. $150k debt isn't representative: that number says you have no undergrad debt and went to an instate school and/or did med school for under $37,500 COA.

In my neck of the woods, only one out of six state residents who apply to our state school gets in. Instate COA for the state med school is $35k; 5 out of 6 of us need to go OOS and pay over $60k COA. Instate COA for undergrad at a state school is $19k. So if a premed doesn't screw up, and doesn't get any free money, when he/she becomes an instate-educated physician his/her debt is $216k as residency starts. The other 80% of us, with instate undergrad debt and OOS med school debt, are looking at well over $316k debt.

I can always go back to software to whittle down debt, but I think that a younger person who is looking at med school should be PLANNING on $300k debt. Free money along the way is GREAT, but I think supportive folks are considering amounts like $10k, $25k to donate to such a cause, not $100k.

My $.02.

 

[ManualEvac]

I think it is unfortunate that salaries have dropped for physicians. The amount of work to achieve this goal is extraordinary, without compare in the business sector. Additionally, patients frequently make derogatory comments like, my doctor says I need surgery....guess he needs a new car. Historically, physicians were thought of as having a prestigious career with financial compensation that correlated. Things have really changed: some friends of mine who are new docs have received salary offers less than what I make as an NP.

Despite this, I still want to go to med school. This is where that issue of "medicine is just a job" plays in. As 'just a job', the hard work would not be worth it. I am going after what I am passionate about, what I haven't been able to stop dreaming about for the past 20 years. In reality, I will probably be losing money if I balance the salary I am giving up with how much it costs to go to med school and the relatively low salaries of residency. But you can't put a price on the cost to your soul when you don't follow your heart and go after what it has always wanted. So I would definitely not be one of the ones 'jumping ship'. Life is waaaay too short to spend time doing something just for money but that you don't really enjoy.

True there are docs making less, but any physician I've met who is excited about what they do makes plenty, even in primary care for underserved (my area of interest). hell, the average salary for my profession is about 1/3 of what I make, so averages don't always mean much. Maybe motivation just plays a bigger role than it did in years past.

Also, as an NP switching gears, you have a special perspective on what physicians have to offer that NPs do not. People like you will be crucial in the fight to define roles and reimbursement in the future. Most Americans, including Congress, have no problem substituting mid-levels for MDs in primary care since they cost less and generally can handle the sniffs and bruises of day-to-day care, but the average person doesn't realize the vast differences in the training and expertise of these groups. The NP at my wife's OB practice was very nice and did a fine job for the routine care, but missed a sneaky (zebra) case of preeclampsia for several weeks because the only irregular lab she saw was +1 protein, but the OB caught it just by looking at her swollen face the first time he met with her and induced just in time to avoid what he said was days, if not hours from becoming eclampsia and kidney failure! Go ahead take the shot, take the shot! Sounds like it will be a good fit for you and for your patients.

 

[odamae]

I started med school at 35 back in 1992- in my class, there were only a handful of us nontraditional students- most were highly competitive gunners right out of pre-med (many ivies I might add). As an older student you bring maturity and perspective- there certainly were challenges but there were also rewards. I would say you need to do some soul-searching and ask why you want to leave nursing to be an MD. There was a CRNA in my class who traded up to anesthesiology so it made sense for her. But make no mistake, it is a long journey and it requires a focused determination to get through it. There were divorces in my class as well- you need to make sure your family is willing to make the time/energy sacrifice as well. As far as your academic record, I would say take or re-take the pre-med classes (bio, chem, organic chem, physics, maybe also psych and a writing course) at a good school and do well on the MCATs. If you show that you can do well as an older student, this will prove to admissions committees that you are serious about this endeavor and you were young, immature, and unfocused earlier in life accounting for the mediocre academic performance. Trust me, if you can ace these courses and the MCAT, you can redeem yourself- I too had a very lackluster undergraduate record. But I went back and smashed the courses and the MCAT. Would I do it again as an older student? Oh probably 🙂

 

[DrJosephKim]

Medical schools have more and more non-trad students these days. The opportunities are there, but you have to invest yourself. You can never get that time back.

 

[NTF]

I won't go into any advice about whether you should or shouldn't go this route. The above posts give some great advice about that and I'm assuming given your current healthcare career you've investigated the nitty gritty of becoming a doctor.

As far as the advice about the route to medical school, it's hard to give specific advice about your path, until we know what we're talking about. What was your undergrad GPA? scGPA? What kind of ECs do you have now? The reason I ask is because where you stand now will have a serious impact on how long your path to application is. It may not be necessary to "redo" your undergrad. Two years (or even less) of A's on difficult science coursework may be enough.

As great as SDN is, and there is a wealth of knowledge and wisdom here, at some point as soon as possible (may have to wait until the downseason) you should set up meetings with your undergrad pre-health advisors and your local medical school admissions office. Go prepared with a CV, unofficial transcript, and maybe even a PS draft. I've found adcom people very accomodating to looking at your present applicant snapshot and giving you the skinny on improvements you need.