IM= lifestyle specialty? & Hard to get Cards & GI fellowship as a DO?

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submarinegunner

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I know IM isnt hard to match, but would it be difficult to get a Cardiology or GI fellowship as a DO? Is it just based on board scores and pedigree or just being likeable by attendings/hospital?

Also Im hearing alot of things about IM being a good lifestyle specialty nowadays with 250k, 7 days on/7 days off schedule a pretty good work life balance? working 2 weeks a month full time salary doesnt seem half bad
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Cards much easier to get into than GI for anyone, including DOs. To improve your odds at matching for fellowship you want to secure a spot in a university (usually allopathic) IM residency that has in-house fellowships. To get those residencies you need board scores, research and the other usual things. I can't say anything about attending lifestyle but I agree that it seems like a good work/life balance if you can stomach the social work and mundane aspects of the job.
 
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Hospitalist work is grueling, there’s a fair amount of scut (calling consults, dealing with social services, etc). 7 on 7 off would be rough IMO. Some people love it though, to each his own I suppose.

Cards and GI make $$$ but they’re not lifestyle specialties. The cardiologist I work with hates his life. He admits the pay is phenomenal, but he’d tell you he wonders if it’s worth it. GI doesn’t seem much better IMO.
 
W19 said:
Board score, pedigree, and research...


Hospitalists make 225k-275k/yr... Not sure most would consider working 7 days on/ 7 days off schedule good lifestyle when shifts tend to be 12 hrs/day.
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I dunno man... my personal friend just signed a contract for a general hospitalist gig at 300k+ starting, a great benefits and retirement package, and they stagger it at 4 on 3 off to avoid working 7 days in a row... partner track at a group that staffs a level 2 trauma center..
SLC said:
GI doesn’t seem much better IMO
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From what I've seen is it depends on your practice model. Some guys come in and do easy scopes all day with little call and basically print money all while being home by 5. Other's I've seen take a good chunk of call and do more complex stuff that takes more time.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
I dunno man... my personal friend just signed a contract for a general hospitalist gig at 300k+ starting, a great benefits and retirement package, and they stagger it at 4 on 3 off to avoid working 7 days in a row... partner track at a group that staffs a level 2 trauma center..


From what I've seen is it depends on your practice model. Some guys come in and do easy scopes all day with little call and basically print money all while being home by 5. Other's I've seen take a good chunk of call and do more complex stuff that takes more time.
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
I dunno man... my personal friend just signed a contract for a general hospitalist gig at 300k+ starting, a great benefits and retirement package, and they stagger it at 4 on 3 off to avoid working 7 days in a row... partner track at a group that staffs a level 2 trauma center..


From what I've seen is it depends on your practice model. Some guys come in and do easy scopes all day with little call and basically print money all while being home by 5. Other's I've seen take a good chunk of call and do more complex stuff that takes more time.
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That’s a hell of a gig for IM. I’m curious what state is your friend working in? Location could be a huge factor here but hey I’ll be very happy working low stress IM and 300 than take more income & liability in higher up specialties
 
submarinegunner said:
That’s a hell of a gig for IM. I’m curious what state is your friend working in? Location could be a huge factor here but hey I’ll be very happy working low stress IM and 300 than take more income & liability in higher up specialties
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It's a mountain west state, so yeah I'm sure location is playing a role. It is a pretty good gig admittedly, one that isn't the norm. All of the attendings at his program told him to take it when he asked them for advice on the offers he was considering.
 
I still can't figure out how people think 7 on 7 off is a good lifestyle. These are usually 12 hour shifts. The week you're on sucks. It's nearly impossible to maintain a normal life exercising, cooking, spending time with family, keeping up with hobbies for the week you're on unless you function fine on 5 hours of sleep. And you're working half the weekends every year. You're not exactly half time either, it's 42hrs per week averaged. Not bad for a doc but something you can also find in the outpatient world.
 
I don't consider 7on/7off to be a lifestyle. It does lend itself to travel more than that M-F, as I usually do 14on/14off.

If you have kids. . . you care kind of stuck with working around their schedule anyways. (mine are still small so it doesn't matter yet).

I am not required to be in house, so its more like 8-5 with phone calls till 8pm. Often 8-1 on the weekends. The median hospitalist is like $275k-$280k. Lots of people make north of $400k, but you work for it.

EDIT: is outpatient PCP considered a lifestyle specialty now? I sure don't consider Cards or GI to be lifestyle specialties.
 
To those complaining about 7 12s have you ever had a job before med school? Lol. Like a real job.

Worked 20 days in a row before as a nurse on 12s it’s not that bad. Different jobs and not as mentally exhausting I’m sure but having those days off rocks.

But this is sdn and anything more than 9-2 four days a week is barbaric slavery


TLDR- if you have never had a real job it’s hard to take somebody serious when they are like “zomg 7 days of twelllvv hours 2 harddd must werkles” not explicitly pointing to people in this post but in others on sdn I mean anything more than lifting a potato chip is hard work
 
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alprazoslam said:
To those complaining about 7 12s have you ever had a job before med school? Lol. Like a real job.

Worked 20 days in a row before as a nurse on 12s it’s not that bad. Different jobs and not as mentally exhausting I’m sure but having those days off rocks.

But this is sdn and anything more than 9-2 four days a week is barbaric slavery


TLDR- if you have never had a real job it’s hard to take somebody serious when they are like “zomg 7 days of twelllvv hours 2 harddd must werkles” not explicitly pointing to people in this post but in others on sdn I mean anything more than lifting a potato chip is hard work
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Yep. I didn't say its awful but it's not ideal. There's better lifestyles in medicine. And plenty of better schedules with more hours worked.
 
It also depends on what the 12 hours look like. A good friend of mine said right out of residency he took a job because of great salary and he had loans to repay (roughly 6-8 years ago). They had no census cap per hospitalist so he was working hard, hard. He said that he was chasing his tail for the entire 12 hours. He has changed to a better gig where he caps at 25 and is loving life.
 
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Neither GI or cards are easy to get into. Especially as a DO. Neither are impossible, but don't go into IM if you absolutely must be one of those two subspecialties or you could be in for a rough time (same as how pre-meds shouldn't go to medical school if they only want to be orthoradermatologists).

I'm planning on going for the hospitalist life, but I don't know that I'd call it a lifestyle specialty. It's not 8-5 with Lamborghini money.
 
I just don’t get the whole hospitalist, gi, cards appeal. Not a lifestyle by any means. I can’t imagine eating the sh** sandwich that is IM residency just for the chance (not guarantee) of 3 more years of training so then I can live in the hospital and get called by the ER at all hours of the night forever.

Also, what’s the appeal of hospitalist from a financial POV? You can work outpatient for marginally less money and a much better lifestyle. If you really need that extra coin, you can always moonlight on the side.
 
DO2015CA said:
It also depends on what the 12 hours look like. A good friend of mine said right out of residency he took a job because of great salary and he had loans to repay (roughly 6-8 years ago). They had no census cap per hospitalist so he was working hard, hard. He said that he was chasing his tail for the entire 12 hours. He has changed to a better gig where he caps at 25 and is loving life.
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Lol, cap at 25 and loving life. Sounds like a sh*tty gig to me
 
My internal med rotation was insane. The doc had to cover the entire med floor + ICU. Regularly 6 ICU patients + 30 on the floor. They were miserable. It kind of turned me off that career path.
 
ortnakas said:
Neither GI or cards are easy to get into. Especially as a DO. Neither are impossible, but don't go into IM if you absolutely must be one of those two subspecialties or you could be in for a rough time (same as how pre-meds shouldn't go to medical school if they only want to be orthoradermatologists).

I'm planning on going for the hospitalist life, but I don't know that I'd call it a lifestyle specialty. It's not 8-5 with Lamborghini money.
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You say it well... People should not go into IM with the idea they want cardio/GI since these are not easy fellowships to get. I know one individual who did a chief year and still did not match cardio.
 
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NotYou20 said:
I still can't figure out how people think 7 on 7 off is a good lifestyle. These are usually 12 hour shifts. The week you're on sucks. It's nearly impossible to maintain a normal life exercising, cooking, spending time with family, keeping up with hobbies for the week you're on unless you function fine on 5 hours of sleep. And you're working half the weekends every year. You're not exactly half time either, it's 42hrs per week averaged. Not bad for a doc but something you can also find in the outpatient world.
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You get used to it. plus if your not the guy on admits sometimes you get to leave early. It doesn't sound great but its actually pretty alright. Also having caps on the service helps. My buddy has his service capped at 17 patients with a 265 base with additional 30K bonus. On a coastal city in west Florida. Its not Derm, but its pretty dang good for a guy who only did a 3 year residency. Hes got a house on the intercoastal waterway and is looking for a boat.

If you can get that in a relatively popular place, I am sure you can do 50k more in the boonies.
 
W19 said:
You say well... People should not go into IM with the idea they want cardio/GI since these are not easy fellowships to get. I know one individual who did a chief year and still did not match cardio.
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We're saying the same thing, I think?

I'm not arguing don't go to IM and WANT cardio/GI. I'm saying don't go into IM if you will be devastated if you find yourself in general IM (outpatient, hospitalist, or whatever) or another subspecialty, because there's no guarantee of cardio.
 
ortnakas said:
We're saying the same thing, I think?

I'm not arguing don't go to IM and WANT cardio/GI. I'm saying don't go into IM if you will be devastated if you find yourself in general IM (outpatient, hospitalist, or whatever) or another subspecialty, because there's no guarantee of cardio.
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I was agreeing with you... I guess I did not get my message across good enough.
 
What about medical oncology? how competitive is it compared to say GI and cards? GI>Cards?heme/onc?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt interventional cards 3 years IM + 3 years general cards fellowship + 1-2 years of interventional fellowship? Long road..
NicMouse64 said:
What about medical oncology? how competitive is it compared to say GI and cards? GI>Cards?heme/onc?
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Heme onc is more "middle of the road." Not as competitive as cards or GI. Good shot as a DO if you play your cards right and work hard.
 
workaholic181 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt interventional cards 3 years IM + 3 years general cards fellowship + 1-2 years of interventional fellowship? Long road..


Heme onc is more "middle of the road." Not as competitive as cards or GI. Good shot as a DO if you play your cards right and work hard.
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Eh I am a MD 🙂. Just trying to get a feel for how hard I need to work in medical school lmao.
 
Ho0v-man said:
Also, what’s the appeal of hospitalist from a financial POV? You can work outpatient for marginally less money and a much better lifestyle. If you really need that extra coin, you can always moonlight on the side.
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I don't think it's the money aspect for most, it's likely because it's inpatient medicine and for some people people outpatient medicine makes them want to put bamboo shoots under their finger nails.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
I dunno man... my personal friend just signed a contract for a general hospitalist gig at 300k+ starting, a great benefits and retirement package, and they stagger it at 4 on 3 off to avoid working 7 days in a row... partner track at a group that staffs a level 2 trauma center..
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If someone could guarantee me this job I might convince myself to fall in love with IM rather than just considering it like I am now...
 
Not seeing how either in or outpatient is that bad but honestly haven’t done anything total awful besides obgyn lol. Family med isn’t even that bad. Boring but sometimes boring is nice.

Honestly wish we had a survey of “OMS1s and what they expect after residency in a job” assuming it would be 500k min potential of 2mil in a coastal city working 36 hours a week and no call weekends or nights.

Actually that’s what it would be bc every post bac student I talked to in anatomy lab back in OMS1 wanted derm or ortho but couldn’t even get in med school without a post bac lmao
 
I can assure you 7/7 is not lifestyle although most of my experience comes from working in the ED. Most Internalists don’t seem to hate life to be honest.
Even if it is a leisure 7/7 you are going to struggle with family, gym, etc etc
I can see the 4/3, 3/4 being super chill.
 
Blanky said:
I can assure you 7/7 is not lifestyle although most of my experience comes from working in the ED. Most Internalists don’t seem to hate life to be honest.
Even if it is a leisure 7/7 you are going to struggle with family, gym, etc etc
I can see the 4/3, 3/4 being super chill.
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For treefriddy you can buy a bow flex and get a 16 pack and Arnold arms in six weeks as per commercials
 
NotYou20 said:
I still can't figure out how people think 7 on 7 off is a good lifestyle. These are usually 12 hour shifts. The week you're on sucks. It's nearly impossible to maintain a normal life exercising, cooking, spending time with family, keeping up with hobbies for the week you're on unless you function fine on 5 hours of sleep. And you're working half the weekends every year. You're not exactly half time either, it's 42hrs per week averaged. Not bad for a doc but something you can also find in the outpatient world.
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5 hours of sleep sounds lovely right about now... current OMS1 here
 
Blanky said:
I can assure you 7/7 is not lifestyle although most of my experience comes from working in the ED. Most Internalists don’t seem to hate life to be honest.
Even if it is a leisure 7/7 you are going to struggle with family, gym, etc etc
I can see the 4/3, 3/4 being super chill.
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I do 4/3, with an occasional weekend of hospitalist coverage. Usually twice a month.

It’s pretty nice TBH.
 
SLC said:
I do 4/3, with an occasional weekend of hospitalist coverage. Usually twice a month.

It’s pretty nice TBH.
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My FM docs had amazing 4 day workweeks seeing 25-30 patients a day. 8-5.

3 day weekends forever. You wouldn't even need to use any vacation weeks for a year or two to stack some cash if you plan properly.

FREAKING GOALS.

If IM has the same schedule, that would be a really tough decision whether to pursue IM or FM.
 
QueenJames said:
My FM docs had amazing 4 day workweeks seeing 25-30 patients a day. 8-5.

3 day weekends forever. You wouldn't even need to use any vacation weeks for a year or two to stack some cash if you plan properly.

FREAKING GOALS.

If IM has the same schedule, that would be a really tough decision whether to pursue IM or FM.
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Yeah, except for primary care IM is a fast track to becoming a geriatrician. Not that there’s anything wrong with taking care of the elderly, but IM guys don’t have a lot to offer younger people over FM.

I’m not gonna lie, part of what I like about what I do is that I have a young patient base. I end up doing way more women’s health, and way more peds as a result.
 
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SLC said:
I’ve been at it for 5 months and I’ve done $153k so far.
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1415820825tumblr_n4ex35m3gx1rcjhkko1_500.gif


I LOVE IT.
 
alprazoslam said:
To those complaining about 7 12s have you ever had a job before med school? Lol. Like a real job.

Worked 20 days in a row before as a nurse on 12s it’s not that bad. Different jobs and not as mentally exhausting I’m sure but having those days off rocks.

But this is sdn and anything more than 9-2 four days a week is barbaric slavery


TLDR- if you have never had a real job it’s hard to take somebody serious when they are like “zomg 7 days of twelllvv hours 2 harddd must werkles” not explicitly pointing to people in this post but in others on sdn I mean anything more than lifting a potato chip is hard work
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Haha, exactly what I was thinking. I used to work at FedEx as a package handler while in undergrad. I was lifting packages anywhere from 30 to 150 lbs off a moving belt nonstop for 8 hours (up to 10 hours during the holidays). I'm pretty sure I can handle 12hrs a day in a Hospital.

Edit: worked there for 7 years after immigrating to the U.S. all while also keeping up with 12 to 18 credit hours of school as a ESL student without taking any hit to my gpa (3.7+).

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile
 
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