IMG in this year's match.

[deleted310399]

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Hey fellows,

My situation is that I am an IMG who needs visa and has applied to psychiatry programs for a residency position. I applied to 80 programs and received only 5 I/V s and two applications waitlisted at the University of Florida and CASE western ( metrohealth)

I think I am a fairly competitive applicant with 1 year of psychiatry work experience in home country, 5 months of working with psychiatrists in the US and getting 4 uslor's from them and above all a genuine desire to pursue psychiatry.
My scores are 246 (1), 240 ( ck), ECFMG certified, Graduated in 2009. Giving step 3 in January.

Red flags- one attempt in CS ( DID NOT PREPARE ADEQUATELY), need VISA ( A major pain in the ASS), applied on OCT 15 after getting certified on Oct 14.

MY QUESTION IS-
Should I wait for more I.Vs now or is it pretty much over for this season. All my rejections have been from high end programs that rarely accept IMG applications. The programs where I think I have a realistic chance ( mid tier ones) are still silent despite Emails from my end. This wait is really frustrating.

Any opinions on this matter.

 

[nitemagi]

Hey fellows,

My situation is that I am an IMG who needs visa and has applied to psychiatry programs for a residency position. I applied to 80 programs and received only 5 I/V s and two applications waitlisted at the University of Florida and CASE western ( metrohealth)

I think I am a fairly competitive applicant with 1 year of psychiatry work experience in home country, 5 months of working with psychiatrists in the US and getting 4 uslor's from them and above all a genuine desire to pursue psychiatry.
My scores are 246 (1), 240 ( ck), ECFMG certified, Graduated in 2009. Giving step 3 in January.

Red flags- one attempt in CS ( DID NOT PREPARE ADEQUATELY), need VISA ( A major pain in the ASS), applied on OCT 15 after getting certified on Oct 14.

MY QUESTION IS-
Should I wait for more I.Vs now or is it pretty much over for this season. All my rejections have been from high end programs that rarely accept IMG applications. The programs where I think I have a realistic chance ( mid tier ones) are still silent despite Emails from my end. This wait is really frustrating.

Any opinions on this matter.

Not sure what you're proposing as an alternative to waiting? Drop out entirely?

 

[deleted310399]

I get your point. There is nothing else I can do of course. I was just asking whether the remaining programs will respond at this stage or has everything been decided already, that's all.

 

[mgdsh]

I get your point. There is nothing else I can do of course. I was just asking whether the remaining programs will respond at this stage or has everything been decided already, that's all.

It's possible that you could get more invites at this point in time. Interview season goes through January.

You're taking all the right steps meanwhile by taking Step 3 in January.

 

[deleted310399]

the match can be an extremely demoralising process for IMGs - it certainly has been for me! Remember the majority of applications for psychiatry come from IMGs at many programs and one of the easiest ways of getting numbers down is to just reject all the IMGs unless the program is reliant on a certain number of IMGs to fill the spots.

Your scores and US experience alone unfortunately do not make you 'fairly competitive'. I hope you have applied to mostly less competitive programs and you didn't just waste money applying to places like MGH etc. My experience has been the system is based on connections and the large proportion of my interviews have been based on either knowing someone in the program, faculty from my med school knowing someone, and in some cases I have been my own advocate and got in touch with the program director and explained why I love the program and what I would bring to the program. I have also attended grand rounds, resident didactics, met with faculty and c/l rounds at some of the local programs to show my face.

don't give up just yet - I suspect that many people have overestimated how many interviews they can go on and there will be cancellations as the season winds down. If possible find someone to advocate on your behalf, but also be your own advocate! If you can come up with specific reasons why you are interested in a specific program and what you would bring you may be surprised at how effective it is. If you cannot be a successful advocate for yourself then how can you expect others to take you seriously? Good luck and stay strong.

How do you suggest I get in touch with the program directors. Calling and Emailing are two conventional options but they seem a little desperate. And yes, I have applied to programs where I would have a realistic chance barring a few of course. I also applied pretty late, maybe that could be a reason.

And you think that I am not even "fairly competitive", wow that's demoralising in itself. LOL.

 

[deleted310399]

And you think that I am not even "fairly competitive", wow that's demoralising in itself. LOL.[Unfortunately your scores and USCE DO NOT make you fairly competitive]

 

[digitlnoize]

And you think that I am not even "fairly competitive", wow that's demoralising in itself. LOL.[Unfortunately your scores and USCE DO NOT make you fairly competitive]

See, I was thinking the opposite. Your scores are far above the averages for psych (even for "independent applicants") and your good LORs from US doctors can't hurt either.

5 is actually a pretty good number. As long as you interview fairly well, I'd say you have a decent chance of matching at one of those 5. Looking at the match stats, most people who match get one of their top 2 spots, and pretty much everyone who matches get's one of their top 4.

How many do you "need" to match? You never really know. I'd say 5 is probably the minimum to be "safe" but 10 makes it more of a "you're 100% safe" type of thing.

Also, if those 2 programs have you waitlisted, what are the chances they'll rank you highly? I'm also wait listed at a program, although I have tons of interviews at other, more competitive places, so I wouldn't read too much into those wait lists. It can just be the random nature of this whole process. Total crap shoot.

If anything was holding you back, it might be your CS failure or Visa issues...

 

[BritTrooper]

I think it very much depends on the competitiveness of the programs that you are applying to, in programs who can cherry pick internationally trained candidates your scores are about average. Scores however are often supplemented by publications, prizes and other scholarly activities. Some programs would view a cs failure particularly harshly especially for a non-US applicant, this unfortunately applies irrespective of the reason for the failure. Good Luck.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Just being honest here, but you have a lot of red flags. A failed cs, no step 3, and being IMG already makes things tough. Add on no visa and you are in a bind.

I'm at a non-top 25 program by research/academic standards - if anyone cares. We used to take IMGs that had all steps completed + visa completed. This year - no IMGs will be interviewed regardless of step score.

Competition is getting tougher yearly. Definitely clear up those red flags ASAP.

If you didn't apply to many lower tier programs, you made a mistake.

 

[pysch4sure]

It sounds like this person is an FMG and not an IMG, where an IMG is an American who didn't get into a medical school in the US, but instead went to the Caribbean.

My (limited) understanding is that the lack of American citizenship puts you at even more of a disadvantage compared to the already handicapped IMGs.

I hope you find something. Good luck

 

[quiong]

Like others have said you have a couple of red flags. However you also already have 5 I/V. This is 5 more than some IMGs have. For FMG/IMGs, it can be frustrating to apply to dozens of programs and only receive I/Vs in the single digits, whereas AMGs in a field like psychiatry will typically get invited by something like 60-90% of their applications. I think there's no need to be defeatist however... even if you receive no more I/Vs the entire season, you'll likely have around 50% chance of matching this year (http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf page 242). Just keep doing what you're doing, ace your interviews, and pass step 3 in January.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Just being honest here, but you have a lot of red flags. A failed cs, no step 3, and being IMG already makes things tough. Add on no visa and you are in a bind.

I'm at a non-top 25 program by research/academic standards - if anyone cares. We used to take IMGs that had all steps completed + visa completed. This year - no IMGs will be interviewed regardless of step score.

Competition is getting tougher yearly. Definitely clear up those red flags ASAP.

If you didn't apply to many lower tier programs, you made a mistake.

does that include caribbean students too?

 

[TexasPhysician]

does that include caribbean students too?

Generally it is easier for Carib students from the US because visas/English are not an issue. Still, it is getting harder for Carib grads as well.

My program has a couple Carib grads that are PGY-3s. This application year no Carib grads are being interviewed regardless of strength.

Obviously not all programs are cutting out Carib grads. I'm just demonstrating that it is getting more competitive by the year.

 

[belle54321]

I guess exceptional IMG students are still getting interviews. I have met carib students at duke and yale. I also met IMG (both doing research at yale) from other countries at columbia. I have found duke and yale to be particularly friendly to IMGs-possibly due to where they are located (not NYC or boston).

 

[Ron Mexico]

Generally it is easier for Carib students from the US because visas/English are not an issue. Still, it is getting harder for Carib grads as well.

My program has a couple Carib grads that are PGY-3s. This application year no Carib grads are being interviewed regardless of strength.

Obviously not all programs are cutting out Carib grads. I'm just demonstrating that it is getting more competitive by the year.

i am a caribbean student and i applied nearly everywhere in texas but have not had any rejections from there yet. just as knowledge for me, if i haven't gotten a rejection from somewhere yet, does that mean they're still considering me if some interviews are cancelled? i guess you can't speak for all programs but even some insight into how your program operates would be very helpful. thanks in advance.

i guess i thought i'd have way more rejections by now from places where the caribbean students don't make the cut offs...or maybe they have rejected me and just haven't told me yet.

 

[TexasPhysician]

i am a caribbean student and i applied nearly everywhere in texas but have not had any rejections from there yet. just as knowledge for me, if i haven't gotten a rejection from somewhere yet, does that mean they're still considering me if some interviews are cancelled? i guess you can't speak for all programs but even some insight into how your program operates would be very helpful. thanks in advance.

i guess i thought i'd have way more rejections by now from places where the caribbean students don't make the cut offs...or maybe they have rejected me and just haven't told me yet.

I'm not sure how all programs work. Some may still consider you when cancellations occur. I don't think TX programs send any rejection letters this early.

My program has dozens of American graduates that won't be getting interviews either. We overbooked too and unless numerous people cancel, there are no more invitations from here.

 

[deleted310399]

I know things are hard. In fact I have noticed a major change in the last few years. If you look at any FMG forums from 2006-2008, you'll see that getting I/V s was much easier. A CS attempt is a handicap, no doubt about it, but a bigger handicap in my opinion is needing a work visa and not having any contacts at FMG friendly programs. I do not know how selections for I/Vs are made and what exactly defines a competitive applicant and maybe I'll never know. All I know is that I have a real passion for Psychiatry and there is nothing else I would rather be doing professionally and until I make that happen, I am not going to stop.

 

[splik]

sorry dude but facts are failing CS is a big red flag, needing a visa is not. Now I may not have got as many interviews as US seniors, but I have been fortunate enough to get some interviews at some really great programs despite needing a visa. In fact the programs have made a point of telling me that needing a visa is not really an issue for them and they would sponsor a H1 visa for me. One program also told me they would sponsor me for a green card so I could apply for a K award following residency should I end up there and do good work.

don't give up just yet and hopefully you will have more success in the coming weeks but a CS failure is hurting you the most (assuming there is nothing else you haven't disclosed).

 

[deleted310399]

All right dude, you are obviously the big expert here, good luck hot shot.

 

[lash]

Hey ,

I was just wondering whether Psychiatry programs send out Interview Invitations in the month of December/Jan, or have they sent out all their invitations already? I have a few IVs and was wondering whether to expect more. In addition, I have not heard back from a lot of programs.

Thanks

 

[deleted310399]

Hi there, I am pretty much in the same situation. Still waiting to hear from 55-60 programs and not sure if I'll get anymore invites. Programs do send invites in Dec/Jan but I guess only if cancellations occur.

 

[Ron Mexico]

yup, i'm waiting on about 75 programs which I have yet to hear from. 2 interviews so far.

 

[deleted310399]

I called Temple University today and they said that my application was on hold because of one reason only- the one failure in CS. So I guess that SPLIK guy was right after all because this was exactly the reason given by University of Florida in Gainesville. They liked everything else but that one failure was making them reluctant in inviting me.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I called Temple University today and they said that my application was on hold because of one reason only- the one failure in CS. So I guess that SPLIK guy was right after all because this was exactly the reason given by University of Florida in Gainesville. They liked everything else but that one failure was making them reluctant in inviting me.

A failed cs is tough. An AMG classmate of mine was AOA with 250+ board scores. He applied EM and got interviews at all top programs like Stanford, Harvard, etc. Then he failed cs, and he had chosen to automatically send score reports to programs.

He ended up matching EM at his last choice program - our home program. Without a home program, he wouldn't have matched do to a failed cs.

Just 1 example though. Lesser known programs may not have cared.

 

[Ron Mexico]

i should be getting my cs score next week. i just hope i pass...it's the only major exam i've had to worry about.