Impact of Covid-19 on upcoming application cycle

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

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Thought it would be interesting to start a discussion on what the impact of the coronavirus will be on students applying to residency or medical school this cycle. Does anyone think the cycle will end up being significantly delayed due to prometric closures and social distancing guidelines? Or will PDs be more lenient with incomplete apps? I can't even imagine a scenario where CS testing locations open within the next 6 months considering the nature of the exam. Same goes for the MCAT/step 1/2 CK with prometric centers being closed indefinitely in many states. I predict this will be the most forgiving/easiest cycle ever to apply to medical school or residency. In the case of medical school, it seems that fewer people than ever will want to apply to medical school or have the credentials needed in time. In the case of residencies, since basically few to no FMGs will be able to apply, many more programs will go unfilled than in past years leaving open spots in even the more competitive specialties. Anyone have any thoughts?

Edit: Forgot to mention audition rotations. I know its been discussed elsewhere but incoming MS4s are now all but screwed out of something that could have really improved their connections with specific programs. Especially if they have low scores and/or are applying for specialties with little to no exposure in MS3 year (Path, ENT, neuro, rads, etc)

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Who knows. One thing is certain, it won't be a normal cycle and it is going to be crazy. I also don't see a world where CS/PE can be taken in a timely manner, and CK will probably take on an even lower role than previously with people having to take it later. I suspect it will come down a lot to what you already have on paper which will favor those with good on paper apps.

 

[Dr. Death]

Thought it would be interesting to start a discussion on what the impact of the coronavirus will be on students applying to residency or medical school this cycle. Does anyone think the cycle will end up being significantly delayed due to prometric closures and social distancing guidelines? Or will PDs be more lenient with incomplete apps? I can't even imagine a scenario where CS testing locations open within the next 6 months considering the nature of the exam. Same goes for the MCAT/step 1/2 CK with prometric centers being closed indefinitely in many states. I predict this will be the most forgiving/easiest cycle ever to apply to medical school or residency. In the case of medical school, it seems that fewer people than ever will want to apply to medical school or have the credentials needed in time. In the case of residencies, since basically few to no FMGs will be able to apply, many more programs will go unfilled than in past years leaving open spots in even the more competitive specialties. Anyone have any thoughts?

Why won't they be able to apply? I think you're overestimating the number of competitive spots these individuals are taking up

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

Why won't they be able to apply? I think you're overestimating the number of competitive spots these individuals are taking up

Visas will no doubt be harder to get over the coming year(s). And programs will likely be less willing to sponsor them. I guess it more applies to less competitive specialities where FMGs are more common and will probably not affect the super competitive specialties, but more competitive specialties (anesthesia, radiology, surgery) will be more likely to go unfilled (probably for the first time for many programs) since 10-30% of spots are filled by FMGs and the number of them applying later in the year will no doubt at least be cut in half.

****This is just be own personal prediction/perspective. I have no idea how it will all pan out but this seems like the most likely outcome to me.

 

[NicMouse64]

Visas will no doubt be harder to get over the coming year(s). And programs will likely be less willing to sponsor them. I guess it more applies to less competitive specialities where FMGs are more common and will probably not affect the super competitive specialties, but more competitive specialties (anesthesia, radiology, surgery) will be more likely to go unfilled (probably for the first time for many programs) since 10-30% of spots are filled by FMGs and the number of them applying later in the year will no doubt at least be cut in half.

****This is just be own personal prediction/perspective. I have no idea how it will all pan out but this seems like the most likely outcome to me.

Or IMGs that are less qualified will be more likely to match because they are US citizens.

 

[libertyyne]

Its a little weird to say that FMGs are going to magically get locked out. When you are a program that has tradationally taken FMGs , albiet ones who rotated with you, You are not going to have the luxury of not taking FMGs, you will rely more upon paper compared to previous years, but your applicant pool/ matriculant will remain somewhat similar.

IMGs will have the same issue that FMGs will have with the lack of rotations.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

Say you are a rising MS4 and you want to go into neurology or radiology, how are you going to get a LOR now with no chance of doing an elective before September?

 

[Particularlobster3]

Or IMGs that are less qualified will be more likely to match because they are US citizens.

Why are you assuming all US-IMGs are less qualified? There are a ton who have stellar applications and still haven’t matched.

 

[LutGholein]

Say you are a rising MS4 and you want to go into neurology or radiology, how are you going to get a LOR now with no chance of doing an elective before September?

Hopefully, before VSAS reopens(?) there will be a COVID-19 specific-response from these fields like other fields have. Wondering the same about PM&R--no one is really rotating through that until 4th year.

 

[libertyyne]

Why are you assuming all US-IMGs are less qualified? There are a ton who have stellar applications and still haven’t matched.

on average US-IMGs have the lower step 1 scores compared to FMGs and AMGs,and have poorer rotations etc.

 

[libertyyne]

Say you are a rising MS4 and you want to go into neurology or radiology, how are you going to get a LOR now with no chance of doing an elective before September?

you go to your home program and ask for a letter. If you do not have a home program it becomes a little more difficult.

 

[efle]

My current predictions:

1) ERAS gets pushed back by ~6 weeks to the end of Oct/start of Nov. Match date and residency beginning are unchanged (still March and July).
2) No travel this interview season. Lots of awkward Zoom interviewing, and lots of trying to determine where you will be happy for the next 3-7 years based on websites. Large spike in home-matching, and probably a very generous match rate in surgical subspecialties because so many people will be taking a gap year to dodge COVID disruptions.
3) Step 2 CS will still be required to be licensed, but will be pushed back. There's zero chance they keep current requirements since nobody can take it and there will be months and months of backlog. PDs will just have to accept that many will still be missing this by rank time. We will probably still have to take it but now, maybe just by the start of residency or early on during residency.

A speculative 4) some method of addressing the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 CK cancellations and backlog. A few solutions include letting Prometric competitors proctor the test (contract problems), letting schools proctor the test (security problems), or advancing the Pass/Fail conversion to this year (makes students angry on reddit and SDN). But don't worry, the NBME will tell us whether they prefer the rock or the hard place by June 30.

Bonus: And then next year I predict an absolutely brutal match cycle with some record high SOAP rates.

 

[libertyyne]

My current predictions:

1) ERAS gets pushed back by ~6 weeks to the end of Oct/start of Nov. Match date and residency beginning are unchanged (still March and July).
2) No travel this interview season. Lots of awkward Zoom interviewing, and lots of trying to determine where you will be happy for the next 3-7 years based on websites. Large spike in home-matching, and probably a very generous match rate in surgical subspecialties because so many people will be taking a gap year to dodge COVID disruptions.
3) Step 2 CS will still be required to be licensed, but will be pushed back. There's zero chance they keep current requirements since nobody can take it and there will be months and months of backlog. PDs will just have to accept that many will still be missing this by rank time. We will probably still have to take it but now, maybe just by the start of residency or early on during residency.

A speculative 4) some method of addressing the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 CK cancellations and backlog. A few solutions include letting Prometric competitors proctor the test (contract problems), letting schools proctor the test (security problems), or advancing the Pass/Fail conversion to this year (makes students angry on reddit and SDN). But don't worry, the NBME will tell us whether they prefer the rock or the hard place by June 30.

Bonus: And then next year I predict an absolutely brutal match cycle with some record high SOAP rates.

I think this year is going to be a blood bath in the surgical subspecialties and smaller fields.

 

[Mass Effect]

Why are you assuming all US-IMGs are less qualified? There are a ton who have stellar applications and still haven’t matched.

Caribbean students shouldn't match, imo, certainly not before US students. The whole Caribbean med school market needs to be shut down.

 

[Doggeronie]

Caribbean students shouldn't match, imo, certainly not before US students. The whole Caribbean med school market needs to be shut down.

As a US MD student, I agree that Caribbean schools are pretty much scams and diploma mills, and I'm vehemently against anyone attending a Caribbean medical school.
That being said, I've had preceptors who were Caribbean grads, and they were clearly very intelligent and knowledgeable. In fact, I was surprised to find out that our regional Peds clerkship director was a Caribbean grad. At the end of the day, if you pass your boards and make it through residency, you are qualified to be a practicing physician.
Even at US schools, I think that most learning is self-driven. Doing uworld questions and watching online med ed isn't really something that involves my school.

 

[DameJulie]

Bonus: And then next year I predict an absolutely brutal match cycle with some record high SOAP rates.

Would you say for current M1s, the next few years of match list that we look up to are not going to be too representative and applicable to our class?
Class of 2020 - first MD/DO merger match
Class of 2021 - Delayed ERAS, Zoom interviews, etc
Class of 2022 - Disrupted Step 1 exam dates

 

[Particularlobster3]

Caribbean students shouldn't match, imo, certainly not before US students. The whole Caribbean med school market needs to be shut down.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to US-IMGs vs NonUS-IMGs aka FMGs. You can be a US IMG and still go to the same medical schools as the non-US IMGs aka FMGs. A US IMG is someone that is a US citizen who went to medical school internationally whether that’s an Indian medical school or Caribbean medical school or European medical school or etc. A non- US IMG aka FMG are non US citizens who went to the schools I listed above. So when you are ok with an FMG with good credentials matching here in America then you should be ok with an US IMG who might have attended the same school or has the same credentials. I agree with you that US grads should get the first picks because they did graduate in the country regardless of their scores/credentials, and I think US citizens should get the next pick because America is their home country and their life IS in America and they always end up paying taxes in this country. (Residencies are funded by taxpayer money). Lastly, since we need more physicians and could always use more knowledge in this field, we welcome FMGs/non-US IMGs but not at the expense of US citizens and their debts. I also totally agree with you regarding the Caribbean schools are a sham in the sense they promise false hope and cost a lot of money ( 5 of these schools are FAFSA eligible which means the students are left in atleast 250K+ debt)....they should be heavily regulated in who they accept and what not. I think the core problem here is that the residency slots are so limited even from AMGs and it should be resolved immediately. No one should be left unmatched in their country of citizenship...regardless of them being an AMG or US IMG. I also support FMGs coming to the US to live their American dream. Sorry for the rant and it’s past midnight here lol.

 

[Particularlobster3]

As a US MD student, I agree that Caribbean schools are pretty much scams and diploma mills, and I'm vehemently against anyone attending a Caribbean medical school.
That being said, I've had preceptors who were Caribbean grads, and they were clearly very intelligent and knowledgeable. In fact, I was surprised to find out that our regional Peds clerkship director was a Caribbean grad. At the end of the day, if you pass your boards and make it through residency, you are qualified to be a practicing physician.
Even at US schools, I think that most learning is self-driven. Doing uworld questions and watching online med ed isn't really something that involves my school.

Exactly! If they can clear their licensing exams and are US citizen then they should get a chance to prove themselves in their home country. Some of the AMGs have multiple attempts and less competitive applications compared to the Caribbean grads but still match because they went to school in America.

 

[Espressso]

What a year to have the PE done by January... Only thing my school has done right thus far. Couldn't imagine with all this stress, adding on trying to figure out how/if/when to take the PE.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Probably the opposite of this? Zoom Interviews + No aways + some P/F clerkship grades means Boards should be more important, esp in IM

Can’t be important if a massive chunk of the applicant pool doesn’t have a score because they physically weren’t able to find a testing site in time.

 

[watermelon master]

Can’t be important if a massive chunk of the applicant pool doesn’t have a score because they physically weren’t able to find a testing site in time.

Plenty of testing sites are opening back up. Will you get to take CK when you wanted to? Most likely not. But tons of centers are releasing spots that were previously reserved for other exams

 

[Med Ed]

My current predictions:

1) ERAS gets pushed back by ~6 weeks to the end of Oct/start of Nov. Match date and residency beginning are unchanged (still March and July).
2) No travel this interview season. Lots of awkward Zoom interviewing, and lots of trying to determine where you will be happy for the next 3-7 years based on websites. Large spike in home-matching, and probably a very generous match rate in surgical subspecialties because so many people will be taking a gap year to dodge COVID disruptions.
3) Step 2 CS will still be required to be licensed, but will be pushed back. There's zero chance they keep current requirements since nobody can take it and there will be months and months of backlog. PDs will just have to accept that many will still be missing this by rank time. We will probably still have to take it but now, maybe just by the start of residency or early on during residency.

A speculative 4) some method of addressing the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 CK cancellations and backlog. A few solutions include letting Prometric competitors proctor the test (contract problems), letting schools proctor the test (security problems), or advancing the Pass/Fail conversion to this year (makes students angry on reddit and SDN). But don't worry, the NBME will tell us whether they prefer the rock or the hard place by June 30.

Bonus: And then next year I predict an absolutely brutal match cycle with some record high SOAP rates.

1) ERAS won't budge.
4) The NBME is supposed to announce something this coming week about where things are going. They have steadfastly refused to move P/F scoring up.

I don't think SOAP will be worse this year than in the past. I think applicants will use the travel savings to apply to more programs than usual, and programs will conduct more interviews than usual. Everyone will make longer rank lists than usual. The net result will be a wash.

 

[watermelon master]

1) ERAS won't budge.
4) The NBME is supposed to announce something this coming week about where things are going. They have steadfastly refused to move P/F scoring up.

I don't think SOAP will be worse this year than in the past. I think applicants will use the travel savings to apply to more programs than usual, and programs will conduct more interviews than usual. Everyone will make longer rank lists than usual. The net result will be a wash.

Wait what? Why won't ERAS budge? Doesn't it make tons of sense to push it back a few weeks?

 

[Mass Effect]

As a US MD student, I agree that Caribbean schools are pretty much scams and diploma mills, and I'm vehemently against anyone attending a Caribbean medical school.
That being said, I've had preceptors who were Caribbean grads, and they were clearly very intelligent and knowledgeable. In fact, I was surprised to find out that our regional Peds clerkship director was a Caribbean grad. At the end of the day, if you pass your boards and make it through residency, you are qualified to be a practicing physician.
Even at US schools, I think that most learning is self-driven. Doing uworld questions and watching online med ed isn't really something that involves my school.

I never said they weren't qualified, but there are a number of qualified graduates who don't match and IMO, the Caribbean students should not match ahead of US grads. It's the only way to shut down the diploma mills and I feel bad for the students who go there, but if they know this going in, then they can make the choice not to go.

 

[Mass Effect]

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to US-IMGs vs NonUS-IMGs aka FMGs. You can be a US IMG and still go to the same medical schools as the non-US IMGs aka FMGs. A US IMG is someone that is a US citizen who went to medical school internationally whether that’s an Indian medical school or Caribbean medical school or European medical school or etc. A non- US IMG aka FMG are non US citizens who went to the schools I listed above. So when you are ok with an FMG with good credentials matching here in America then you should be ok with an US IMG who might have attended the same school or has the same credentials. I agree with you that US grads should get the first picks because they did graduate in the country regardless of their scores/credentials, and I think US citizens should get the next pick because America is their home country and their life IS in America and they always end up paying taxes in this country. (Residencies are funded by taxpayer money). Lastly, since we need more physicians and could always use more knowledge in this field, we welcome FMGs/non-US IMGs but not at the expense of US citizens and their debts. I also totally agree with you regarding the Caribbean schools are a sham in the sense they promise false hope and cost a lot of money ( 5 of these schools are FAFSA eligible which means the students are left in atleast 250K+ debt)....they should be heavily regulated in who they accept and what not. I think the core problem here is that the residency slots are so limited even from AMGs and it should be resolved immediately. No one should be left unmatched in their country of citizenship...regardless of them being an AMG or US IMG. I also support FMGs coming to the US to live their American dream. Sorry for the rant and it’s past midnight here lol.

No misunderstanding on my part. I was speaking only about Caribbean schools and to me, it makes no difference if it's a US student there or a non-US student there. Caribbean schools should not be entertained with their graduates getting residency spots in the US ahead of US grads. They fight it out for what's left over.

 

[Mass Effect]

Exactly! If they can clear their licensing exams and are US citizen then they should get a chance to prove themselves in their home country. Some of the AMGs have multiple attempts and less competitive applications compared to the Caribbean grads but still match because they went to school in America.

As it should be. Attending medical school in America, meeting the standards we have here for our medical schools/doctors, should absolutely count for something when churning out doctors for a limited number of residency slots. The Caribbean schools should be shut down and the only way to do that is to push their grads out of the match and let them fight over the scraps left over from those who went to med school in the US.

 

[libertyyne]

I never said they weren't qualified, but there are a number of qualified graduates who don't match and IMO, the Caribbean students should not match ahead of US grads. It's the only way to shut down the diploma mills and I feel bad for the students who go there, but if they know this going in, then they can make the choice not to go.

Except for the fact that each residency program is capable of making the decision as to which person is more qualified. Someone with board failures and repeated years is not necessarily a more qualified applicant compared to IMGs who do not have those red flags.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Can we just avoid the whole "are FMGs more qualified than marginal AMGs" debate? I think that's been done to death and almost always results in threads that otherwise might have been interesting going off the rails and getting closed.

 

[Mass Effect]

Except for the fact that each residency program is capable of making the decision as to which person is more qualified. Someone with board failures and repeated years is not necessarily a more qualified applicant compared to IMGs who do not have those red flags.

Yep I'm aware that programs get to make their own choice and that someone with board failures may not be a more "qualified" applicant (which goes back to the argument that everyone who is able to get through is "qualified). I maintain US grads should get first dibs, regardless. That's one positive (among some others) to the USMLE being changed to P/F.

My final word on the topic.

 

[Doggeronie]

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to US-IMGs vs NonUS-IMGs aka FMGs. You can be a US IMG and still go to the same medical schools as the non-US IMGs aka FMGs. A US IMG is someone that is a US citizen who went to medical school internationally whether that’s an Indian medical school or Caribbean medical school or European medical school or etc. A non- US IMG aka FMG are non US citizens who went to the schools I listed above. So when you are ok with an FMG with good credentials matching here in America then you should be ok with an US IMG who might have attended the same school or has the same credentials. I agree with you that US grads should get the first picks because they did graduate in the country regardless of their scores/credentials, and I think US citizens should get the next pick because America is their home country and their life IS in America and they always end up paying taxes in this country. (Residencies are funded by taxpayer money). Lastly, since we need more physicians and could always use more knowledge in this field, we welcome FMGs/non-US IMGs but not at the expense of US citizens and their debts. I also totally agree with you regarding the Caribbean schools are a sham in the sense they promise false hope and cost a lot of money ( 5 of these schools are FAFSA eligible which means the students are left in atleast 250K+ debt)....they should be heavily regulated in who they accept and what not. I think the core problem here is that the residency slots are so limited even from AMGs and it should be resolved immediately. No one should be left unmatched in their country of citizenship...regardless of them being an AMG or US IMG. I also support FMGs coming to the US to live their American dream. Sorry for the rant and it’s past midnight here lol.

I will say that I trust and respect a lot of FMG's more than I do US-IMG's. FMG's were often highly qualified and very well educated in their home countries, attending the top schools back home. Some even leave a career as practicing physicians to try and start over.
US-IMG's fail to qualify for the minimum standard of medical school admission in their home country, and attend foreign medical schools in an attempt to secure a loophole. They took the easy way out, and honestly they do deserve to go unmatched in their home country since they didn't even attend medical school in their home country.

But it's not up to me, it's up to program directors.

I never said they weren't qualified, but there are a number of qualified graduates who don't match and IMO, the Caribbean students should not match ahead of US grads. It's the only way to shut down the diploma mills and I feel bad for the students who go there, but if they know this going in, then they can make the choice not to go.

I do agree, but I guess the only way for them to be shut down is if they lost their ECFMG certification. Idt that's gonna happen. And honestly, Caribbean schools aren't the only ones guilty of this. I know people who have attempted to circumvent attending a US medical school by going to India, the UK, Poland, or any number of eastern european countries.

 

[mehc012]

I don't think SOAP will be worse this year than in the past. I think applicants will use the travel savings to apply to more programs than usual, and programs will conduct more interviews than usual. Everyone will make longer rank lists than usual. The net result will be a wash.

So in other words, an absolute nightmare where the existing application overload gets even worse? Great.
Honestly, as weird as it may sound, I'm starting to think it may be a better year than most to be a prelim applicant. Already have scores on the books, and letters will be from full-time work when nobody else has aways.

 

[efle]

So in other words, an absolute nightmare where the existing application overload gets even worse? Great.
Honestly, as weird as it may sound, I'm starting to think it may be a better year than most to be a prelim applicant. Already have scores on the books, and letters will be from full-time work when nobody else has aways.

And it'll be way easier to fit interviewing into a busy intern year when it's just a quick Zoom call or two!

 

[efle]

1) ERAS won't budge.
4) The NBME is supposed to announce something this coming week about where things are going. They have steadfastly refused to move P/F scoring up.

I don't think SOAP will be worse this year than in the past. I think applicants will use the travel savings to apply to more programs than usual, and programs will conduct more interviews than usual. Everyone will make longer rank lists than usual. The net result will be a wash.

Please let us know what the NBME announces to you, because their webpage told us students we'd hear by June 30!

Good point that everyone is going to err cautious this year. And with "interviews" being just a couple Zoom calls instead of a full day event, can increase interviews a LOT.

 

[FindersFee5]

So in other words, an absolute nightmare where the existing application overload gets even worse? Great.
Honestly, as weird as it may sound, I'm starting to think it may be a better year than most to be a prelim applicant. Already have scores on the books, and letters will be from full-time work when nobody else has aways.

Also add in that zoom interviews are significantly easier for a prelim than trying to travel during a surgical prelim year! It's a little silver lining for you, at least.

BTW, read your story and it was a horrendous example of some of the fault lines in the system. Really hoping you get wherever you want to go this year, you definitely deserve it!

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

Please let us know what the NBME announces to you, because their webpage told us students we'd hear by June 30!

Good point that everyone is going to err cautious this year. And with "interviews" being just a couple Zoom calls instead of a full day event, can increase interviews a LOT.

It may increase interviews, but it won't improve results since now you will just need more interviews to match. It will also make applicants have far less control over where they go since so many more people will be ranking the same places.

 

[efle]

It may increase interviews, but it won't improve results since now you will just need more interviews to match. It will also make applicants have far less control over where they go since so many more people will be ranking the same places.

Yeah, its gonna be hard to charm anybody over a Zoom call, and vice versa harder for programs to differentiate themselves in the eyes of applicants. I basically expect my match to be a name drawn from a hat at this point.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Please let us know what the NBME announces to you, because their webpage told us students we'd hear by June 30!

Good point that everyone is going to err cautious this year. And with "interviews" being just a couple Zoom calls instead of a full day event, can increase interviews a LOT.

It may increase interviews, but it won't improve results since now you will just need more interviews to match. It will also make applicants have far less control over where they go since so many more people will be ranking the same places.

The more I think about it the more I think if there was ever a good time to test out an application cap it would be this year.

In a thought exercise I went through my own list of programs I was planning on applying to and broke them down into quartiles of order I would apply to under varying caps, eg. 1-25, 26-50, etc. Turns out there are only about 50ish programs that I am genuinely interested in and everything else was just because I wanted to apply to enough programs to get the requisite amount of interviews. A number lower than 25 really put me in a bind with having to choose between programs I know 100% I'm competitive for, and programs that I am most interested in that I'm also competitive for but not overly so like the other ones, but a number over 50/60 was basically just filler. Kind of opened my eyes a bit.

A cap this year would make sense, something like 40 for USMD, 50 for DO, 60 for IMG (just some easy numbers from my napkin calculations lol). Programs would know that the apps they are getting are from people genuinely interested instead of every program getting spammed with thousands of apps purely because everyone is applying everywhere. Could even serve as a test run for future cycles.

If there isn't a cap I suspect people will get a lot of interviews from regional programs. It will be harder to convince a program outside the region of your school that you are genuinely interested. I guess another option would be program specific personal statements, might serve to keep applicants from applying to 150 programs in IM

 

[efle]

The more I think about it the more I think if there was ever a good time to test out an application cap it would be this year.

In a thought exercise I went through my own list of programs I was planning on applying to and broke them down into quartiles of order I would apply to under varying caps, eg. 1-25, 26-50, etc. Turns out there are only about 50ish programs that I am genuinely interested in and everything else was just because I wanted to apply to enough programs to get the requisite amount of interviews. A number lower than 25 really put me in a bind with having to choose between programs I know 100% I'm competitive for, and programs that I am most interested in that I'm also competitive for but not overly so like the other ones, but a number over 50/60 was basically just filler. Kind of opened my eyes a bit.

A cap this year would make sense, something like 40 for USMD, 50 for DO, 60 for IMG (just some easy numbers from my napkin calculations lol). Programs would know that the apps they are getting are from people genuinely interested instead of every program getting spammed with thousands of apps purely because everyone is applying everywhere. Could even serve as a test run for future cycles.

If there isn't a cap I suspect people will get a lot of interviews from regional programs. It will be harder to convince a program outside the region of your school that you are genuinely interested. I guess another option would be program specific personal statements, might serve to keep applicants from applying to 150 programs in IM

Its pragmatic in the same way an acceleration of Pass/Fail could be, but seems similarly impossible to suddenly implement with only a few months notice.

Were gonna see craziness this cycle. People getting 30+ interviews and "attending" all of them. People with decent apps getting very few interviews at all. All the idiosyncrasies like yield protection, or favoring easily sorted convenience metrics like board scores, will be exaggerated to a new degree.

Gonna be interesting.

 

[efle]

I have a new prediction for Step 2 CS: remote/virtual patient encounters.

I kid you not, per a communication from the President/CEO to school admins, they're considering "options that alleviate your students' need to travel to examination centers."

A while back I remember an email from the NBME that was recruiting med students for a study on virtual patients...

I am so not looking forward to paying >$1000 for some virtual SP encounters.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

I have a new prediction for Step 2 CS: remote/virtual patient encounters.

I kid you not, per a communication from the President/CEO to school admins, they're considering "options that alleviate your students' need to travel to examination centers."

A while back I remember an email from the NBME that was recruiting med students for a study on virtual patients...

I am so not looking forward to paying >$1000 for some virtual SP encounters.

CS is the biggest scam I've encountered in any point in medical school. Paying thousands of dollars to sign up and travel to take it was painful.

I say that virtual/remote patient encounters is a possibility. My hope though is that this is the thing that finally leads to CS being scrapped from the licensing requirements all together.

 

[Dr. Death]

I have a new prediction for Step 2 CS: remote/virtual patient encounters.

I kid you not, per a communication from the President/CEO to school admins, they're considering "options that alleviate your students' need to travel to examination centers."

A while back I remember an email from the NBME that was recruiting med students for a study on virtual patients...

I am so not looking forward to paying >$1000 for some virtual SP encounters.

Would you rather pay >$1000 and more for travel for equally awkward in-person SP encounters?

 

[KnuxNole]

Yeah, its gonna be hard to charm anybody over a Zoom call, and vice versa harder for programs to differentiate themselves in the eyes of applicants. I basically expect my match to be a name drawn from a hat at this point.

I’m sure you can charm some PDs over a Zoom video interview with good lighting and maybe a fun background!

 

[Doggeronie]

Honestly i bet interviews wont be virtual

 

[efle]

Honestly i bet interviews wont be virtual

Even if this first wave is done relatively soon, people are trying to prepare for additional waves or "hotspot" cities later in the year. I think rather than having specific cities cancel interviews at random on people all season, makes sense to just plan them all remote.

Especially since at this point we will hopefully be back on clerkships at each of our hospitals. Seems suuuper dumb to fly a bunch of potential asymptomatic young people with recent COVID risk into your hospital week after week.

 

[Doggeronie]

Even if this first wave is done relatively soon, people are trying to prepare for additional waves or "hotspot" cities later in the year. I think rather than having specific cities cancel interviews at random on people all season, makes sense to just plan them all remote.

Especially since at this point we will hopefully be back on clerkships at each of our hospitals. Seems suuuper dumb to fly a bunch of potential asymptomatic young people with recent COVID risk into your hospital week after week.

Sure it makes sense, but I'm iffy on the execution
I'm skeptical it's gonna happen

 

[Mass Effect]

Sure it makes sense, but I'm iffy on the execution
I'm skeptical it's gonna happen

No way can they justify meeting half their applicants in person and half of them via Zoom. Unless they can guarantee they can see ALL applicants in person (and come on, that's very unlikely), they have to concede and make it virtual.

The decision likely won't be made until late summer though (I'd say September) and by then, the people protesting will have assured that the first wave melts seamlessly into the second with no break in sight.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

No way can they justify meeting half their applicants in person and half of them via Zoom. Unless they can guarantee they can see ALL applicants in person (and come on, that's very unlikely), they have to concede and make it virtual.

The decision likely won't be made until late summer though (I'd say September) and by then, the people protesting will have assured that the first wave melts seamlessly into the second with no break in sight.

This pretty much sums it up perfectly. Kind of ironic that that will be the outcome of the protests.

 

[dragoon]

If you watched the Harvard Residency Webinar, I think the way they put it was "it is a probable that some aspect of interviews" will be virtual - whatever that means.

My school (NYC), also told us that while Step 2 CS being scrapped has been discussed, it won't be applied this year just because the timeline is too short. So hopefully future generations don't have to deal with it, but I thought it might be a "we'll discuss it later" but then never really do type of thing as well.

 

[efle]

My school (NYC), also told us that while Step 2 CS being scrapped has been discussed, it won't be applied this year just because the timeline is too short.

??? Did anyone in the audience raise their hand and ask them rephrase that in a way that makes any sense??

 

[You shall know the Truth]

No way can they justify meeting half their applicants in person and half of them via Zoom. Unless they can guarantee they can see ALL applicants in person (and come on, that's very unlikely), they have to concede and make it virtual.

The decision likely won't be made until late summer though (I'd say September) and by then, the people protesting will have assured that the first wave melts seamlessly into the second with no break in sight.

You have no statistical or scientific data to substantiate this claim. The data coming from Italy and China has been limited to suggest this. There may or may not be a “second wave.”
In fact the random sampling of antibodies in people of NY, Mass, Florida, and Cali would all point to more people being already infected. A majority of them asymptomatic and potentially immune moving forward. Will the US continue to have cases and deaths, yes. Will we see an inundation of the health care system moving forward, probably not. The reason being is people in states that have opened are still staying home in large portions. preliminary results seem to indicate that people are still unsure of the risk in an open society. You can disagree with me, but to make an absolute stalemate as to a “second wave” being a direct result of people protesting seems to be intellectually dishonest and unfounded. Time will tell moving forward.