importance of research and publications...help

[timhost]

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It seems that doing some sort of research is important for matching especially in more competitive fields. Everyone always posts the importance of getting a publication out of the research. I am wondering how it is even possible to get publications from research in 3/4 year when it usually takes over a year to even get accepted by a journal and even longer to have made print. How much weight is given to research that is "submitted for publication"? Is it worth doing if you know that the research will not be published/accepted before residency interviews/match?

How long does it usually take for case reports to get published assuming they are quality? How much weight do these carry compared to research projects?

Thanks for any replies...

 

[BigBadBix]

You're right, it is difficult to get published from research done during the clinical years, but it's not entirely impossible. It is certainly feasible to do a small clinical research project during 3rd year and get it accepted by a journal before you submit your ERAS application (from what I've heard, both "published" and "accepted for publication," are given very strong weight; "submitted" is much less impressive, but still better than "in process").

Personally, I believe that research experience without pubs is still very helpful in the application process. This is especially true if you play a large role in an interesting project, because doing so will give you plenty of experience that you can talk about during your interviews. For example, I have been working as the primary author on a project for over a year now, and interviewers are always impressed at how much I've done & learned, despite the fact that it's not published. They often say they think it's great that I've experienced some of the setbacks and challenges of getting a research project from start to finish, so I will really know what I'm getting into by pursuing an academic career.

So with that said, here's my advice:
1. Case reports don't carry the same weight as a more time-consuming, in-depth project, so I'd spend my time pursuing the latter. However, If an opportunity arises for a case report, you should definitely go for it so you can try to get a quicker publication.

2. Try to work with someone closely (ideally someone who publishes frequently and has a recognizable name) so that you can get a strong letter. That way, if you don't get a publication, you can at least give the admissions committees evidence of your abilities/motivation with regard to research.

3. Even if you can't get something published, try to present the research at a conference before you apply for residency. This can also really help out the application.

These are just some general ideas; if you know which specialties you are thinking about you might want to request more specific advice from people applying in those fields.

-BBB

 

[Vitaliano333]

Case reports:
typically 4-6 weeks before hearing back from a journal. At this point, you will likely have to revise it (once, if you're lucky). This will take another 4-6 weeks before they officially accept it and decide on a tentative date of publication. Then it will take another 6 months to >1 year before it is actually published, assuming it is a well-respected journal. So, it'll be about 6 weeks before the status of the paper is "in revision for Journal X" and about 3 months before it is "accepted for publication by Journal X" from the time of submission (if all goes very smoothly).
Paradoxically, it may take less time to get a research study published, as it is in a journal's best interest to publish well-designed and/or ground-breaking research in a timely fashion. The time consuming part here will be devising a well-designed study and actually finding the resources to carry it out.
Also, I agree with 3B that even research experience w/o pubs is important, so long as you can demonstrate that the research is of interest and that you are an active participant in it, as opposed to someone just trying to embellish the CV.

 

[Hurricane]

Another thing... the ERAS form doesn't really differentiate between abstracts and journal publications. I mean, you fill in the approrpriate info to indicate where your work was published/presented, but they do not have seprate sections for abstracts and publications, like on a real CV. I think a lot of medical students have abstracts rather than journal pubs. I'm an MD/PhD student, so I have several journal pubs plus a zillion abstracts, and I often have interviewers say "you have a lot of publications" not realizing that most of them are abstracts.

Anyway, yes, I think it's worth doing research even if you might not get a journal publication by the ERAS deadline. It's perfectly ok to list something and put "submitted" for the journal title. I have a submitted manuscript in my application. This shows that you've done a body of work and have written it up for publication. As you've said, the timeline for acceptance is beyond your control. And I think an abstract is comparable to a journal publication, esp if you go to the meeting and present.

I'm guessing that they are more interested in the research experience than the publication record. Unless you are applying for a research track in your specialty. Then actual publications might be more important. But I'm just an MS4, so it's quite possible I'm wrong. 🙂

 

[Silent Cool]

What about acknowledgements? Do committees value that? I mean, if you do research between years one and two, that's only a few months in the lab--often not enough to get published, but an acknowledgement certainly seems reasonable. How much are acknowledgements valued?

😎

 

[Flea girl]

What about acknowledgements? Do committees value that? I mean, if you do research between years one and two, that's only a few months in the lab--often not enough to get published, but an acknowledgement certainly seems reasonable. How much are acknowledgements valued?

😎

I was told that you could not cite acknowledgements on your CV. Not really acceptable. This came from my PI from the NIH. If you want to get published b/t MSI and MSII try to work with someone who puts out alot of papers and hope that you get lucky enough to get your name on a publication, even if your are 10th author, it will help. Though first authorship is definately better, but something is better than nothing I guess. Hope this helps.

 

[miko2005]

Another thing... the ERAS form doesn't really differentiate between abstracts and journal publications. I mean, you fill in the approrpriate info to indicate where your work was published/presented, but they do not have seprate sections for abstracts and publications, like on a real CV. I think a lot of medical students have abstracts rather than journal pubs. I'm an MD/PhD student, so I have several journal pubs plus a zillion abstracts, and I often have interviewers say "you have a lot of publications" not realizing that most of them are abstracts.

That happened to me too except I am an MD only (with one year off for research). I have had more than a few abstracts plus papers which together seemed like too long of a list for someone without a PhD.

 

[streetdoc]

On ERAS, will I be able to put an undergrad publication? Or is that looked down upon? It was only in the campus-wide collection of research from various majors...just curious.
Oh, and what about posters that I did in med school?
I wish I knew what ERAS required so I could write this stuff down now.
thanks,
streetdoc

 

[Hurricane]

On ERAS, will I be able to put an undergrad publication? Or is that looked down upon? It was only in the campus-wide collection of research from various majors...just curious.
Oh, and what about posters that I did in med school?

You can definitely put the posters. ERAS just has a "publications" section, which is a catch-all for journal articles, abstracts, presentations, etc. For the posters, put the authors and title and date, then put the name of the meeting in the space for the journal title. If you won an award for any of your posters, list that separately in the "awards" section.

I don't know about the undergrad publication. If it were in a peer-reviewed journal, it would be a no-brainer. I say include it. Can't hurt, AFAIK.

I wish I knew what ERAS required so I could write this stuff down now.

Look here: http://www.aamc.org/students/eras/start.htm

 

[streetdoc]

You can definitely put the posters. ERAS just has a "publications" section, which is a catch-all for journal articles, abstracts, presentations, etc. For the posters, put the authors and title and date, then put the name of the meeting in the space for the journal title. If you won an award for any of your posters, list that separately in the "awards" section.

I don't know about the undergrad publication. If it were in a peer-reviewed journal, it would be a no-brainer. I say include it. Can't hurt, AFAIK.



Look here: http://www.aamc.org/students/eras/start.htm

thanks for the info and link...just wish i hadn't seen the "fees" section 👎
thanks,
streetdoc

 

[DrNick2006]

I had several undergrad basic science pubs unrelated to medicine. I have been asked about it a few times on the interview trail. I viewed it as helpfull b/c it demonstrated a research/scientific interest and I am applying to academic programs. It did not get me a interview at MGH, however.

 

[streetdoc]

I had several undergrad basic science pubs unrelated to medicine. I have been asked about it a few times on the interview trail. I viewed it as helpfull b/c it demonstrated a research/scientific interest and I am applying to academic programs. It did not get me a interview at MGH, however.

that's great, but mine was only selected from campus submissions (no great, well-known journal). you still think it's worth mentioning?
thanks,
streetdoc

 

[Hurricane]

that's great, but mine was only selected from campus submissions (no great, well-known journal). you still think it's worth mentioning?

Many peer-reviewed journals aren't great or well-known either 😉