in cases of rape are you pro choice?

[ronaldo23]

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even if your normally pro life?

 

[Phenol312]

This is a complicated issue and I have a feeling things might get heated with this thread but I suppose I'll say a few words nonetheless.

Legally, I feel that women have the right to choose. Notice my wording the right to choose...not that women have to get an abortion. It's a woman's body and I feel the government should not have any say in reproductive functions. It could set some dangerous precedents.

Ethically, I feel abortion is wrong there is always adoption. However, as a male I feel it is not my place to judge a woman's decision to abort a pregnancy or not. In my opinion men should keep their noses out of the whole affair. After all, we (men) are not carrying the child for those nine months.

There are sensible alternatives to abortion and I think they should be exercised before coming to abortion as a last resort. It should be legal though women should have control over their own bodies.

This is my view, feel free to disagree with me but lets keep things civil in this thread. I foresee things getting nasty quickly if we start bringing religion into this...

 

[Insulinshock]

Depends on the situation. I don't believe a question like that has an answer that is simply black and white. But in a general sense i will say yes, she has a choice.

 

[centersharpie]

if consent was not given from the female... then yes. of course.

 

[scrubswannabe]

i dont understand how anyone can be completely against abortions
because of cases such as rape

sure i dont want people getting abortions regularly instead of using contraceptions but truthfully i dont think people would do that and also
making abortion illegal would just make women use hangers and other ridiculous ways to carry out abortions and thats horrible

i cant understand why anyone would be against abortions

 

[metalmd06]

ohhhhh this is going to be fun...

Now, I believe in the woman's right to choose, but I am pro-life. Hard to reconcile huh? The problem with this debate is that fanatics on both sides make it a black and white issue when it is in fact very grey. Women have a right to do whatever they chose to their bodies, and that includes abortions. However, the unchecked availiability of abortions to be performed fosters a culture of irresponsibility. This shouldn't be used freely just because it is available, i.e., it should not be a fall back plan. There are a lot of teens out there having sex, and who's to stop them? But for older, irresponsible teens who think that they can go get it on and fall back on the morning after pill or procedural abortion is wrong. It should be available for extremely young mothers, victims of rape, in cases where the mother and or the baby could die if the child is brough to term, and older responsible adults. That's it. That's my opionion on the subject.

 

[Cirrus83]

Heh, I notice that nobody takes sides on this in this thread haha.
I don't either, because no matter what you say someone who's with you will start jumping down your throat attacking you. Now I just say that I don't want to be part of this argument and let them attack each other.

 

[Flopotomist]

I personally am pro-SDN keeping pre-allo stuff in pre-allo and all this other crap where it belongs.

 

[Vihsadas]

I personally am pro-SDN keeping pre-allo stuff in pre-allo and all this other crap where it belongs.

I agree. There are relevant forums for off-topic items such as this.

 

[ghostfoot]

even if your normally pro life?

No. Not me. Getting raped is unfortunate, but it doesn't give anyone the right to kill a baby.

It's a sad situation, but a woman shouldn't feel better about it by killing the kid. If she wants someone to die, it should be the rapist, not the child.

 

[scrubswannabe]

LOLL
so the lady that gets raped
should have the rapist's child?
WHATT

 

[ghostfoot]

LOLL
so the lady that gets raped
should have the rapist's child?
WHATT

LOLL
so she should kill an innocent person?
WHATT

 

[flaahless]

She should kill an innocent person?!

WHATT

@ WHATT

 

[ghostfoot]

So it turns out that the woman who was raped was conceived by a rape victim.

Should we kill her?

We could get her mom to do it because according to most of you, women have the undocumented "right" to do that.

 

[scrubswannabe]

lol what are you talking about
thats a grown lady
we're talking about unwanted pregnancies here not people that are already born
haha

can i just ask you something - is your stance on this based on religion?

 

[rgarrig]

I'm pro multiple choice cause I think I'm going to get raped on my final tomorrow.

Brilliant 🙂

 

[rgarrig]

Women have a right to do whatever they chose to their bodies, and that includes abortions.

This point is debatable. Is it still the women's body when there's a baby on board? She may be captain of the ship, but there's more than one life on that vessel. True, one of them is parasitic in nature, but still... your thoughts?

 

[LostLost]

is it the baby's fault? why does he/she has to die for someone else's crime?

 

[MyStiKxFury]

When the issue deals with the acceptable ending of life of a human being we should be very cautious. This is true with capital punishment as well as assisted suicide. With the death penalty, its purpose is to prevent future crimes and potentially save innocent lives that might be taken if the criminal were to live. With assisted suicide, its purpose is to end physical pain that the terminally ill patient has consented to. I am aware that there are other factors regarding these two issues but this is the basic concept and justification for killing someone.
In regards to abortion in the case of rape, the purpose is to relieve psychological pain of the rape victim and also physical pain of carrying the baby to term.

The cost of all 3 issues I have mentioned is a human life. Ending the life a criminal is an evil that can justified because it is for the greater good. Ending the life of a terminally ill patient could be considered evil but its purpose justifies it. In these two scenarios I have chosen the lesser of two evils. It might seem cliche but choosing the lesser of two evils is the only logical and ethical choice.

Now the issue of abortion after a rape also cost a human life (the baby) and its purpose is to relieve psychological pain and physical pain (for 9 months). What I am trying to say is which is the greater evil: letting a girl suffer the psychological pain of rape and 9 months of pregnancy OR ending an innocent human life. For me, I view the lesser of these two evils is the rape victim carrying the baby to term.

We are trading 9 months of the girls life for 80 years of the baby, which is the greater loss?

Of course my argument is based on my belief that a fetus is a human being and has all the rights entitled to a person. Others might say that a fetus cannot survive on its own therefore it is not considered a person. Thus ending its life is not considered wrong. In my view, if we use that kind of thinking there are a significant portion of humanity (the mentally ill and ******ed, the aged and infirmed, etc.) who also cannot survive on their own for long. Can't we just as easily justify killing them also?

 

[shevie]

I am normally very vehemently pro-life but in the case of rape/incest, Im "pro choice," BUT, only early on: late-term abortions should still be prohibited in all situations. I respect the womans right to choose to abort a fetus that she cant carry to term because the conditions under which she became pregnant were so sickening and unimaginable, but then figure that out in the first few months. don't wait until youre six months pregnant to say, "oh wait a second i cant do this."

 

[Geekchick921]

No. Not me. Getting raped is unfortunate, but it doesn't give anyone the right to kill a baby.

It's a sad situation, but a woman shouldn't feel better about it by killing the kid. If she wants someone to die, it should be the rapist, not the child.

And what if she does? No one can dictate or ever predict what her emotions should be after such a traumatizing event. I'm going to assume you've never been raped. I haven't, thank God, and while I am opposed to abortion in most cases, I'm pretty damn sure I would not want to keep a pregnancy that resulted from it.

I want to have babies on my terms (read: with my soon-to-be husband), and I think it's downright cruel to force a woman to have a child she might view as a constant reminder of being violated, even if she gives it up for adoption. Plus, the jury is still out on how much genetics factor into violent behavior, and it's a very justified fear to worry that the child might end up like their father.

 

[Perrotfish]

i dont understand how anyone can be completely against abortions because of cases such as rape

A few people have said it before but I'll say it again: pro-life is based on the belief that an unborn child is a person, actual and whole. From this belief follows the conviction that is is wrong to kill the child regardless of the circumstances its concepetion, its likely impact on the mother life, or the quality of life that the child is likely to have. A human being's right to live outweighs all other considerations. The only circumstance where an abortion might be an acceptabe option is when the mother's life is in real and immediate danger, because the only thing that you can reasonably trade a human life for is another human life.

 

[shevie]

The only circumstance where an abortion might be an acceptabe option is when the mother's life is in real and immediate danger, because the only thing that you can reasonably trade a human life for is another human life.

I am anything but "pro-choice," and I totally agree, one persons inability, financial, emotional, or otherwise, to raise a child, does not excuse murder.
But there are extreme cases (esp in the case of incest), where the mothers life might indeed be in real and immediate danger if she carries the child to term, and only a thorough psychiatric evaluation can reveal if this is truly the case.
Ya, I'm with you, if she just thinks she "cant handle raising the child" b/c of the sickening manner in which it was conceived, there are thousands upon thousands of people desperate to be parents that would pay exorbitant amounts for such a kid...And all cases of abortion, even in cases of rape/incest really beg the question- why didnt you think about this afterwords? If you knew you didnt want to be pregnant, why not go take the morning after pill or something like that...fix your "problem" before implantation even occurs...Why wait 2,3 or even 4 months and then suddenly "realize" whats going on?

But if she truly is going to suffer and is in real need of psychiatric help, in cases like that, sometimes abortion is warranted, b/c it really is one life vs another.

 

[foreverLaur]

Seriously? Why debate an issue that doesn't have an answer?

I am normally pro-life because most women having abortions chose to have sex. If you choose to be mature enough to have sex, then you should be mature enough to accept any consequences, especially if you are not safe. I have known my fair share of women who have had abortions and every single one used it as a form of birth control - the condom didn't work? We'll just abort!

However, I also don't feel you can tell a 12 year old rape victim that she has to carry a child for 9 months and then give it away or keep it. Either way her life is pretty much going to be a wreck. There are also life and death situations for the mother, and in those cases I also believe there should be a choice.

I think that the law needs to be consistent, in whatever it chooses. A woman can choose to abort her baby/fetus and that is perfectly okay because our law does not consider it to be a life at that point in time. However, if you were to get into a car wreck and kill a pregnant woman and her baby, you would get two counts of murder. Looks like even our legal system can't decide if it is a living person or not.

There is no way to really solve abortion. You can't claim that it is illegal except and then list a bunch of ways because there is no way to prove a lot of them. Suddently you'll have a ton of women who accidentally got pregnant by their boyfriend claiming they were raped and want to abort. That is why I think abortion will continue to be legal because, while I am generally pro-life, you can't be 100% of the time as that can be just as cruel as someone who believes abortion should be a form of birth control.

 

[Kthanksbye]

No. Not me. Getting raped is unfortunate, but it doesn't give anyone the right to kill a baby.

It's a sad situation, but a woman shouldn't feel better about it by killing the kid. If she wants someone to die, it should be the rapist, not the child.

You may think this, and that's just fine. If this happens to you and yours, then you will do what you think is best. The problem comes when people who believe this want to legislate their beliefs into law, so that everyone must do it this way, whether or not they believe it is best. You have made your choice, let others decide for themselves what is best for them.

 

[pakbabydoll]

No. Not me. Getting raped is unfortunate, but it doesn't give anyone the right to kill a baby.

It's a sad situation, but a woman shouldn't feel better about it by killing the kid. If she wants someone to die, it should be the rapist, not the child.

How can you call some cells a kid? It would not even feel anything if the lady chose abortion; however, the woman who is a full grown adult might feel something giving birth to an unwanted child. The child would feel unwanted too if he/she ever found out that she/he was adopted.

 

[Lokhtar]

How can you call some cells a kid? It would not even feel anything if the lady chose abortion; however, the woman who is a full grown adult might feel something giving birth to an unwanted child. The child would feel unwanted too if he/she ever found out that she/he was adopted.

Most adopted children turn out fine, if placed in the right homes. Myself, I'm pro abortion. In fact, we should force abortions on people whose sole purpose in life seems to try to field a battalion from their pants.

 

[foreverLaur]

How can you call some cells a kid? It would not even feel anything if the lady chose abortion; however, the woman who is a full grown adult might feel something giving birth to an unwanted child. The child would feel unwanted too if he/she ever found out that she/he was adopted.

Well it would depend on when the woman chose to abort and the researcher you spoke to about when it officially becomes a life.

However, not all kids feel unwanted because of abortion. My two cousins were adopted and there are so greatful to their parents and feel like they are extremely lucky to have found such a wonderful family.

 

[Perrotfish]

The child would feel unwanted too if he/she ever found out that she/he was adopted.

My brother's adopted. You have no clue what you're talking about.

The problem comes when people who believe this want to legislate their beliefs into law, so that everyone must do it this way, whether or not they believe it is best. You have made your choice, let others decide for themselves what is best for them.

Would you allow someone to do what they 'thought was best', if you believed it was hurting a child? If a parent was beating their kid every day because they thought strict disipline was best, would you stand by and let the child be abused? If they were keeping their children out of school because they thought that reading and math were the tools of the devil, would you respect their beliefs rather than call a truancy officer? So what would do if you believed someone was actually murdering a child? Would you really say 'your business, not mine?'

 

[Kthanksbye]

My brother's adopted. You have no clue what you're talking about.



Would you allow someone to do what they 'thought was best', if you believed it was hurting a child? If a parent was beating their kid every day because they thought strict disipline was best, would you stand by and let the child be abused? If they were keeping their children out of school because they thought that reading and math were the tools of the devil, would you respect their beliefs rather than call a truancy officer? So what would do if you believed someone was actually murdering a child? Would you really say 'your business, not mine?'

Any argument taken out of context can be made to sound ridiculous.

 

[146233]

This topic may be of interest to all SDN'ers. Moving to Topics in Healthcare. 🙂

 

[Perrotfish]

Any argument taken out of context can be made to sound ridiculous.

It's not the least bit out of context. Those were examples of personal beliefs that people really do hold (and in the case of the abuse thing, which you really will need to deal with as a doctor). The belief that abortion is something much worse than any of those scenarios, that it's actually the murder of an innocent life, is the foundation of pro-life beliefs. How is that out of context?

 

[Kthanksbye]

It's not the least bit out of context. Those were examples of personal beliefs that people really do hold (and in the case of the abuse thing, which you really will need to deal with as a doctor). The belief that abortion is something much worse than any of those scenarios, that it's actually the murder of an innocent life, is the foundation of pro-life beliefs. How is that out of context?

Because you are taking a rigid belief system and trying to apply it to all things equally, and further, trying to tell others that they must do the same. You may see these things as the same moral question, but others do not. Essentially, you are pro choice, as long as you make the choice for everyone based on your own beliefs. The reality is that abortion will continue in this world regardless of the law or the prevailing moral code.

 

[shevie]

How can you call some cells a kid? It would not even feel anything if the lady chose abortion;

Are you really this ignorant?
You think a fetus cant feel anything? Do you have any idea when the neural tube develops? Do you know that a heartbeat can be appreciated at or around SIX weeks? Indeed, blastomeres cant feel anything. But months after that? youre just plain wrong.

 

[foreverLaur]

Additionally, people call the "cells a kid" because that is what those cells are developing into. Those cells just were never given the chance.

 

[shevie]

The reality is that abortion will continue in this world regardless of the law or the prevailing moral code.

Great, then let it continue in back alleys or whatever. It doesnt excuse the government for condoning murder a la roe vs wade. Yes, perhaps, in certain atypical cases where there truly are extenuating circumstances (ie rape, incest, abortion performed very early on in pregnancy--before second trimester), I could see reason why "exceptions" could or should be made. But so let people murder. Does that mean the government is right for legalizing it?

 

[pakbabydoll]

Well it would depend on when the woman chose to abort and the researcher you spoke to about when it officially becomes a life.

Richard Dawkins, said in his book The God Delusion that as long as the "baby" and I use that term very loosely does not have a nervous system then its not a life yet. If someone were to abort a pregnancy in the beginning months then the fetus would not feel a thing. I think when people talk about life, they are talking about soul, or consciousness. However, a fetus without a nervous system can't have a consciousness.
I mean look at test tube babies, I am not sure I have it right but as much as I know don't they fertilize them in petri dishes? So then to pro-life people thats life right? but most of them don't work when inserted back in to a woman, then is not that killing "babies?"

Sorry if that did not make any sense.

I am not pointing at anyone but some pro-life people seem to think its ok to take away a full grown women's right to get an abortion in order to "save" a fetus.
Remember that one case where the priest killed a physician so the physician would not kill any future "babies."


I am sorry about assuming that adopted children feel unwanted. Clearly thats not the case in every family and I want to apologize in case I offended you or someone close.

 

[shevie]

as long as the "baby" and I use that term very loosely does not have a nervous system then its not a life yet. If someone were to abort a pregnancy in the beginning months then the fetus would not feel a thing. I think when people talk about life, they are talking about soul, or consciousness. However, a fetus without a nervous system can't have a consciousness.

Ok fine, but you have to at least admit then, that AFTER the baby develops a nervous sytem, it does have the ability to feel. And the nervous system doesnt develop after a woman gives birth. so yea, perhaps before the nervous system begins to develop (and were talking very early on in the first trimester), then you could make an argument that its not really even considered a life b/c its not a "person" capable of feeling pain or anything else for that matter. But people aborting fetuses 5 months into a pregnancy? that is just irresponsible and tantamount to mureder. You didnt want the kid? you shoulda figured that out 4 months ago. And just b/c you dont want to raise a child doesnt give you an excuse to murder it.

 

[foreverLaur]

I am not pointing out personal views here, except for my first post.

There is no right or wrong answer to abortion - we all have opinions. Largely because the exceptions are too hard to define and everyone disagrees on when it becomes a human being. Some say when it starts to look like a human, some day the minute the egg is fertilized, some say when it gets a nervous system, some say when it has a heartbeat, etc etc...

I do think, like I said in my original post, that the government needs to make up its mind on abortion. The way it is now, the government thinks it is a live human being and they also think it isn't!

 

[pakbabydoll]

Ok fine, but you have to at least admit then, that AFTER the baby develops a nervous sytem, it does have the ability to feel. And the nervous system doesnt develop after a woman gives birth. so yea, perhaps before the nervous system begins to develop (and were talking very early on in the first trimester), then you could make an argument that its not really even considered a life b/c its not a "person" capable of feeling pain or anything else for that matter. But people aborting fetuses 5 months into a pregnancy? that is just irresponsible and tantamount to mureder. You didnt want the kid? you shoulda figured that out 4 months ago. And just b/c you dont want to raise a child doesnt give you an excuse to murder it.

Definitely I agree that if a woman wants an abortion then she should get it as soon as she finds out she is pregnant. Waiting 5-6 months to get it is just wrong. 1-2 months is ok to decide because after all its a huge decision.
But I agree that there should be a cut off point.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

And all cases of abortion, even in cases of rape/incest really beg the question- why didnt you think about this afterwords? If you knew you didnt want to be pregnant, why not go take the morning after pill or something like that...fix your "problem" before implantation even occurs...Why wait 2,3 or even 4 months and then suddenly "realize" whats going on?

I love when people ramble on about something they know nothing about. Unless you've been raped and gone through the psychological trauma of it, passing judgment on things like "the morning after pill" is something you should refrain from doing because you sound absolutely laughable when you try. I've worked with rape victims quite extensively and I can tell you that I've never seen one so "together" as to be thinking about the morning after pill after such a horrifying experience. In fact, most are emotional cripples, mentally paralyzed by the trauma they've been through. Asking them to ask for the morning after pill at the ER is like asking a gunshot victim to ask the paramedics on the scene if blood they might need to pump into his body at the hospital has been screened for AIDS.

 

[shevie]

Asking them to ask for the morning after pill at the ER is like asking a gunshot victim to ask the paramedics on the scene if blood they might need to pump into his body at the hospital has been screened for AIDS.

I hear what youre saying loud and clear, your analogy drives the point home, but, a:

I love when people ramble on about something they know nothing about.

I am not. trust me.
b:

Unless you've been raped and gone through the psychological trauma of it,

Ok, you too state very clearly that you have experience working with rape victims. You too have never been raped, so you too, do NOT know. I do have a very close friend who was raped, and I had a classmate in high school (it was a small school, only 20 in my grade), who was definitely a victim of incest and was being abused badly at home. So no offense, but unless youve been raped yourself, your opinion is not any more "valid" than mine.
c:

passing judgment on things like "the morning after pill"

Im not passing judgement. If you were raped or were a victim of incest, go get an abortion. Im not questioning their choice, I feel terrible for them. But dont do it when the fetus is nearly fully developed (with the exception of the lungs perhaps, but heart beating, fully fxal brain, arms limbs, internal organs etc etc), and "justify" it by saying it was because of rape.
and d:

...I've never seen one so "together" as to be thinking about the morning after pill after such a horrifying experience.

Well even if THEYRE not thinking about it, there are ER docs, nurses, social workers, psychiatrists, etc, all who are only considering the victims best interests. Thats why when they do a rape kit, they do usually (offer at least? to) test them for an array of stds, including HIV. Highly doubt some 20 year old girl wants to be thinking of the possibility that aside from all the emotional and physical trauma she just endured, this animal might have also infected her w/ a fatal disease, but s/o else (the MD), IS thinking about that, b/c someone has to, to ensure the best outcome. Sure, shes not thinking abt whether or not shes pregnant, whether or not if she were to be pregnant, she could go thru w/ such a pregnancy, whether or not if she went thru w/ such a pregnancy, she could raise such a child, but s/o else IS thinking abt that, because they have her best interests at heart.
Sure theyre not thinking straight. And no one is asking them to. It might take them weeks, months, years, even decades (esp w/ incest) to get their lives back on track. But still, two wrongs dont make a right. And if something can be done early on to terminate the pregnancy before it actually hurts the fetus, rather than waiting until it can be considered muder, it should be done.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

And all cases of abortion, even in cases of rape/incest really beg the question- why didnt you think about this afterwords? If you knew you didnt want to be pregnant, why not go take the morning after pill or something like that...fix your "problem" before implantation even occurs...Why wait 2,3 or even 4 months and then suddenly "realize" whats going on?

Sorry, but the above statement SCREAMS judgment.

And who said your opinion wasn't valid? I said passing judgment on rape victims without being a victim yourself makes your opinion laughable and it does. If you notice, nowhere in my post did I pass judgment on victims. I simply stated that questioning them for not crossing all their t's and dot all their i's when they've been through arguably the most painful and traumatic experience of their entire life is insensitive, especially if you're a man who never has to worry about facing something like this.

 

[shevie]

Sorry, but the above statement SCREAMS judgment.
I said passing judgment on rape victims without being a victim yourself makes your opinion laughable and it does. If you notice, nowhere in my post did I pass judgment on victims. I simply stated that questioning them for not crossing all their t's and dot all their i's when they've been through arguably the most painful and traumatic experience of their entire life is insensitive,

and i dont think i was judgemental either.
saying that aborting a fetus late in a pregnancy is tantamount to murder is not judgement, its just a fact. If that makes them feel better about themselves, helps them validate or get over their horrible experience, fortunately or unfortunately, because of a liberal bias on the supreme court years ago, that is their "right." I just hope someone is responsible enough to explain to them that theyre killing another human being. thats all.
I feel terrible about what people like this must have gone through. It surely is traumatic, and i couldnt even imagine. But even their horrible experience doesnt justify murder.
And please keep in mind, as much as i am very very conservative and staunchly pro-life, I said earlier, that exceptions should be made for victims of rape and incest; my point here is that waiting till the end of the second trimester, regardless of the circumstances, regardless of your mental state, is just irresponsible, and you cant spin murder any other way.

especially if you're a man who never has to worry about facing something like this.

just to clarify. if my previous posts in other forums abt having kids, being pregnant, etc while in med school dont make it clear enough. Im a female.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

and i dont think i was judgemental either.
saying that aborting a fetus late in a pregnancy is tantamount to murder is not judgement, its just a fact.

That wasn't the statement I was referring to when I said judgmental. I think I made that quite clear in both of my posts. If you're still confused, read them (and the statement they quoted) again.

just to clarify. if my previous posts in other forums abt having kids, being pregnant, etc while in med school dont make it clear enough. Im a female.

Sorry, I'm not a cyber stalker. I have no idea what you posted and in what forum. My comments are limited to what I read in this thread.

 

[rgarrig]

This point is debatable. Is it still the women's body when there's a baby on board? She may be captain of the ship, but there's more than one life on that vessel. True, one of them is parasitic in nature, but still... your thoughts?

Come on, I know someone has an opinion on this matter. Let 'er rip!

 

[shevie]

That wasn't the statement I was referring to when I said judgmental. I think I made that quite clear in both of my posts. If you're still confused, read them (and the statement they quoted) again.

And all cases of abortion, even in cases of rape/incest really beg the question- why didnt you think about this afterwords? If you knew you didnt want to be pregnant, why not go take the morning after pill or something like that...fix your "problem" before implantation even occurs...Why wait 2,3 or even 4 months and then suddenly "realize" whats going on?

This is what you were referring to I assume.

Have you ever been pregnant? Im assuming you havent. Im assuming youve never seen your child on a sonograph, heard its heartbeat on an ultrasound. So therefore, YOU really cant be so JUDGEMENTAL.

If a pregnancy was due to rape or incest, and it is decided EARLY on to abort, as much as I might personally be opposed to abortion, I still think that is the womans choice, and she is suffering so much, that if this is what she believes will help her heal, then its worth it, because were basically dealing w/ a situation of the yet unborn childs life versus the mothers life. And that early on, I can see an argument for "valuing" the mothers life more, as this embryo has buds for limbs, no real brain, no complete nervous system, etc etc etc.

But as embryonic development progresses and limbs begin to form, together w/ internal organs and a complete working nervous system, then choosing to "abort" (translation murder) the fetus because of the trauma you endured, whether you like it or not, is murder. Two wrongs dont make a right. yes, they were traumatized. Yes, they were tortured. Yes they endured what most of us can barely imagine and will hopefully never know from. But that doesnt justify killing another human being. Early on, before the fetus has a brain, heart etc, Im not saying its RIGHT, but Im saying, that in these extreme cases, maybe thats the lesser of two "evils." But late term abortion? Im sorry. Even with all the terrible things they endured, they still have a responsibility to society-to be a moral person. What they went through doesnt mean they can murder s/o else and "get away w/ it" b/c of what they went thru.

There are people who shoot their parents in the head because they abused them as little kids. There are people who strangle their fathers to death because they raped them as teens. These people endured what I can barely imagine, but the facts remain facts. When they get to court, its still murder. end of story.

 

[CatsandCradles]

Just wanted to say that this has been one of the more "civil" discussions about this particular topic on SDN, and wanted to say high five to everyone here.👍

 

[Abilene85]

Say abortion were to be illegal for a rape victim. The government forces that girl to follow through with the pregnancy. She doesn't want the baby, she certainly won't keep the baby, and she feels even more psychologically messed up having to deal with the result of her rape everyday for 9 months. What is her motivation to stop the things that harm a developing fetus, like smoking or drinking? If she wanted to abort, will she care whether or not her unwanted child is born healthy? Heck, I can see a number of these girls being depressed and turning to substances like alcohol to numb their pain...then the end result is a forced pregnancy and an unhealthy baby who may die shortly after birth or who is unlikely to be adopted over the healthy kids.

Also, who is going to pay for her prenatal care? Think the government will say: "Sorry you were raped - that really sucks - you gotta have the baby anyways - good luck paying the bills to ensure you have a healthy pregnancy." That's like double punishment for being the victim of a crime.

 

[foreverLaur]

Say abortion were to be illegal for a rape victim. The government forces that girl to follow through with the pregnancy. She doesn't want the baby, she certainly won't keep the baby, and she feels even more psychologically messed up having to deal with the result of her rape everyday for 9 months. What is her motivation to stop the things that harm a developing fetus, like smoking or drinking? If she wanted to abort, will she care whether or not her unwanted child is born healthy? Heck, I can see a number of these girls being depressed and turning to substances like alcohol to numb their pain...then the end result is a forced pregnancy and an unhealthy baby who may die shortly after birth or who is unlikely to be adopted over the healthy kids.

Also, who is going to pay for her prenatal care? Think the government will say: "Sorry you were raped - that really sucks - you gotta have the baby anyways - good luck paying the bills to ensure you have a healthy pregnancy."

Which is why abortion will never become illegal - under any circumstance.

How can you determine if a girl truly was raped, or if she is just claiming rape to get rid of a baby? (if it were that abortion was only legal for rape victims).

This thread is entertaining to read, but quite pointless. For the most part, I am pro-life but under circumstances, am not always. However, I also believe that abortion can never be made illegal because it would be impossible to verify and enforce the exceptions and it would just open up more back door abortion clinics.