in cases of rape are you pro choice?

[rgarrig]

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Which is why abortion will never become illegal - under any circumstance.

How can you determine if a girl truly was raped, or if she is just claiming rape to get rid of a baby? (if it were that abortion was only legal for rape victims).

This thread is entertaining to read, but quite pointless. For the most part, I am pro-life but under circumstances, am not always. However, I also believe that abortion can never be made illegal because it would be impossible to verify and enforce the exceptions and it would just open up more back door abortion clinics.

You do know that abortion was illegal in many union states prior to Roe v Wade in 1973, right?

Here is more info (warning: Wikipedia entry).

Abortion is unlikely to become illegal anytime soon, but considering that it was illegal 30 years ago, it's unfounded to say, "abortion will never become illegal - under any circumstance."

 

[foreverLaur]

Yes, my fiance in law school studied that extensively.

Just my opinion that it won't ever become illegal. It may happen, but I would be surprised. I wish there was a way to solve it, but I just don't think there is.

There is just no way that you can say "no abortions no matter what" because that is unfair to 12 year old rape victims and that would open up a a lot of back door clinics. Additionally, I don't think there is any way to concretely prove that a girl was raped vs claiming so to abort a baby.

Talking about abortion is just that: opinions. We are each entitled to our own and we are each entitled to disagree. It doesn't mean that the thoughts are right or wrong.

 

[rgarrig]

Yes, my fiance in law school studied that extensively.

Just my opinion that it won't ever become illegal. It may happen, but I would be surprised. I wish there was a way to solve it, but I just don't think there is.

There is just no way that you can say "no abortions no matter what" because that is unfair to 12 year old rape victims and that would open up a a lot of back door clinics. Additionally, I don't think there is any way to concretely prove that a girl was raped vs claiming so to abort a baby.

Talking about abortion is just that: opinions. We are each entitled to our own and we are each entitled to disagree. It doesn't mean that the thoughts are right or wrong.

1. Don't sell yourself short - your opinion on whether Brittany Spears' latest single is good or bad is not 'right or wrong', but your opinion on whether South African's old Apartheid state is good or bad is either right or wrong (should be obvious which is which). Your opinion is important and it is important to have the correct opinion, particularly when we're talking about issues with strong ethical and moral components, including topics such as pre-emptive war, abortion, etc.

2. Your argument about 12 year old girls as impregnated rape victims who ought to have the right to choose an abortion (or not) is simply not going to speak to those who believe that abortion is murder. If you believe abortion is murder, then it is irrelevant how a woman becomes pregnant. If you believe abortion is 'wrong' but not quite murder, then it may be relevant how a woman becomes pregnant. If you believe abortion is amoral, than no discussion on circumstances is necessary.

 

[ghostfoot]

For the most part, I am pro-life but under circumstances, am not always.

Why are you pro-life (for the most part), and under what circumstances do you advocate abortions?

 

[foreverLaur]

I wouldn't go as far as to say I advocate abortions. I do consider myself to be pro-life.

I was more so stating why I think abortion will never become totally illegal. I am totally against using abortion as a form of birth control - if you choose to have sex, choose to accept all the responsibilities and consequences. To me, that is black and white. In terms of incest and rape, I think it is more of a gray area.

I would just find it a lot harder to be 100% pro-life in terms of a very young girl who was raped. A pregnancy would ruin her life and her reputation and she's so young and didn't ask for any of that and it is a traumatizing situation. On the other hand, it isn't that baby's fault and the baby's life should not be terminated because of it. So, gray area. I guess I am still pro-life in the situation, but find it harder, legally, for the government to 100% to make it illegal under any circumstances. If someone wants to have an abortion, she will find a way to do it, legal or not and that is really unsafe. There just aren't any right answers 🙁.

I do consider it murder, because even if that baby/fetus isn't considered to be human yet, or have taken human form, or having a beating heart, or have a nervous system (or however you define that "cross-over") it is still going to become a human being and you stopped that process. Oddly along the lines of why I always wondered why vegetarians ate eggs- isn't that still killing a chicken / eating a chicken?

 

[shevie]

Oddly along the lines of why I always wondered why vegetarians ate eggs- isn't that still killing a chicken / eating a chicken?

Totally off topic, but me too!! And I asked a vegetarian once, and he got really offended. LOL.

What you said about how its a gray area was really well stated imo btw.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Oddly along the lines of why I always wondered why vegetarians ate eggs- isn't that still killing a chicken / eating a chicken?

Chicken eggs that you buy in the grocery store are unfertilized.

 

[gujuDoc]

even if your normally pro life?

Yes I believe that rape victims should not be forced to keep a child that is the product of rape especially if that rape is a product of molestation by one's own relatives. Anyhow, genetically speaking if it is a product of molestation there is also chances of defects due to recessive alleles being expressed hence why we don't encourage inbreeding either religiously speaking or scientifically speaking.

I think rape is one situation where I believe that abortion should be a right if the woman chooses to abort the child.

 

[gujuDoc]

Totally off topic, but me too!! And I asked a vegetarian once, and he got really offended. LOL.

What you said about how its a gray area was really well stated imo btw.

I feel that it comes down to the fact that a chicken egg is unfertilized so its not the same as killing a live animal.

An unfertilized egg is no different then an unfertilized human egg shed in menstruation.

An egg doesn't become an animal until it has been fertilized whether it is via vivaparous or oviparous means.

 

[gujuDoc]

Chicken eggs that you buy in the grocery store are unfertilized.

One more thing, an unfertilized egg is nothing more then protein, fat, and a few other things but not yet fully developed cells differentiated into different parts.

I find the eating a duck embryo still in the egg thing that vietnamese people do more disturbing.

That said I'm not fully vegetarian in the sense that I eat fish due to health benefits and situations where vegetarian alternatives are not always available but I do try to eat vegetarian alternatives if available and get those things we need from meat from vitamin pills like B12.

 

[RBinLouisville]

.

 

[Nasrudin]

From a man's perspective...

If somebody rapes me and conceives a child in a uterus that I wasn't aware of then multiple people will suffer violent deaths including the child.

So I guess I am pro-death.

 

[kronickm]

I am pro-life and pro-choice. Yes it is possible. Too often pro-choice is considered analogous to pro-abortion.

I would not want anyone I impregnated to have an abortion, and I do not like abortions. I do however feel that they should be legal as they currently are. Abortions are going to happen regardless of the law, better to have it be legal. Anyone remember prohibition? Imagine that with abortions. It is not my right to choose for someone else.

 

[tibor75]

I think that only 1 out of 3 conceptions end up in a live pregnancy. Most of these are spontaneous abortions that occur in the first few days/weeks of "life" - i.e. chromosomal abnormalities, etc.

interesting how life is considered so sacred, yet "God" kills 2/3 of his children before they have a chance.

Yet, if a woman does this to herself, it's MURDER! Oh my God! You killed a human being!

I didn't realize that people hold funerals for their dead 2 or 3 month old fetusues.

yet, if a woman tries to end her pregnancy, these people suddenly act as if the fetus is the same thing as a person -

 

[shevie]

I think that only 1 out of 3 conceptions end up in a live pregnancy. Most of these are spontaneous abortions that occur in the first few days/weeks of "life" - i.e. chromosomal abnormalities, etc.

interesting how life is considered so sacred, yet "God" kills 2/3 of his children before they have a chance.

Yet, if a woman does this to herself, it's MURDER! Oh my God! You killed a human being!

I didn't realize that people hold funerals for their dead 2 or 3 month old fetusues.

yet, if a woman tries to end her pregnancy, these people suddenly act as if the fetus is the same thing as a person -

I think you summed it up yourself - "most of these are spontaneous abortions," due to things like "chromosomal abnormalities"

I wouldnt classify myself as "pro choice" by any stretch, but I definitely see a difference between a 16 year old dumb teenager who made a mistake and finds out after missing a couple periods in a high school run free clinic that shes pregnant, and is too shortsighted to understand the long term consequences of her actions,

or a 24 year old woman with one kid and a full time career and no time right now for a second,

versus a (any age) woman who goes in for a nuchal at 12 weeks and the fetus is at risk for a multitude of cardiac anomalies, trisomy this and that, etc, I would feel bad for a woman faced with such a hard decision - why bring a child who will only suffer and will have no mental capacity into this world. that is not the situation most people are talking about on this board though.


also, just out of curiosity, what do you mean by " "God" " (ie God in quotes). Is that your way of saying you just dont believe in God? or your way of mocking Him as a murderer of fetuses? Just wanted to know.

 

[Pansit]

If abortion is not considered "murder" under the law, then what is the justification of telling women what to do with their bodies. I have heard that under a law where abortion was illegal, the doctor who performed the procedure would his license taken away. Why not jailed for murder? you want abortion banished, it has to be punishable by death or life in prison. Anything else would be hypocritical...is it not? For those who are pro-life, would you agree to a death sentence for mothers who get an abortion? They just killed a baby right?

 

[Old_Mil]

even if your normally pro life?

Rape is one of the most heinous crimes known to man. That having been said, two wrongs don't make a right. In such a case, what's done is done, and killing the preborn child will not undo it.

A woman in this situation deserves 110% of all the financial, psychological, and placement (for the child once its born) support that a society can muster.

If someone is to perish in this situation, better the rapist than the baby.