In need of some major advice about research

[wsxedc]

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Hello SDN. I'm a MS1 at a lower-tier med school, and I'm interested in getting involved with research. Problem is my school is not research focused at all and I'm having loads of trouble getting started. I have a pretty extensive background in basic science and have several solid publications in that area from the time between undergrad and med school, but I'd like to get involved in clinical research. That's just not happening at the moment.

Several people I've tried to talk to have essentially said "Come back with a very specific research proposal with methods that don't cost any money, and we'll see if maybe we can find somebody to work with you." My initial thought was that I'd just have to be a self-starter and put the work in and come up with a proposal but I've spent the past two weeks over the holiday doing nothing but reading articles and thinking about research topics, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm simply not at the level where I can take a clinical research project from conception to completion on my own. I am brand new to anything that doesn't involve pipettes and I just don't feel equipped to plunge into this solo. And it makes me feel like an idiot, because maybe other first year med students are? Either that or it's bad advising, and I don't know which.

I have been missing research a lot so I have been looking forward to jumping back in. I'm also interested in a moderately competitive specialty where research would be to my advantage, so I don't think I should just give up. But I have literally no idea what to do right now. I thought of my professors, but they are all in basic science. I talked to some administrators, and they were the ones who directed me to the people I spoke with. My school is not near any other med schools so I can't just work at a nearby med school.

Does anybody have any suggestion for me?

 

[typhoonegator]

That advising is garbage. My clinical fellows can't even put together cogent clinical research proposals without at least some help, and they have 5-6 years of clinical experience. To do that requires insight into a clinical question that is relevant, practically answerable, ethically justifiable, scientifically robust, and easily resourced without funding. How is anyone supposed to do that as a first year medical student? Success in early career research is entirely about mentorship, all the way up though NIH K-series awards. I would not be a publicly funded translational scientist without all of the dedicated hand-holding I got along the way. Not a chance.

You aren't an idiot, you're just being sent on a fool's errand. Unfortunately, unfunded clinical research is challenging, and because people don't have a lot of time or incentive to provide mentorship (particularly if they aren't already actively doing research), it's hard for them to allocate resources to help you. And it's not like once you become an MD you know how to do good science -- many attendings couldn't design a decent research protocol on their own if they haven't gotten mentored experience in the past.

Does your medical school have a residency in the field you're interested in? For many, a good start for clinical research can come through writing up a case report, and the residents often have an inside line on cool cases to write up. This both gets you involved with authorship in your field of interest, and starts to highlight interesting clinical questions that you might be able to pursue in a future project.

 

[22031 Alum]

Forget asking your current professors, unless they have strong clinical ties. You need to be in touch with the clinical departments at your school- the Internal Medicine department, for example. At some places departments have research coordinators or a research office. You'll want to contact that person and try to find out if there are any opportunities for medical students to get involved.

 

[wsxedc]

Thanks so much for taking time to respond. To be honest I was getting really down about the whole thing, and felt so inadequate and alone and thought that the whole situation was pretty hopeless. At least now I know it's normal to need some guidance at this stage in my career, and I should be focusing my efforts on finding that guidance rather than trying to do an entire research project on my own.

My school does not have a residency in my field of interest, unfortunately, and there's no research office. But I will start cold calling some doctors without worrying that I should be fully independent at this point.

One more question, if you have the time. During my searches on this topic on SDN I've seen it mentioned that it's sometimes possible to do research at an institution without being physically present there. Would it be crazy for me to contact doctors or research departments at another medical school? I couldn't travel there regularly but doing research is important enough for me to make a point of traveling there periodically. I know people are busy and I don't want to waste anybody's time, and I don't know if it's a realistic or crazy question to ask.

Thanks again for responding. It's really appreciated.

 

[235009]

You should be careful about cold calling "doctors" as well. You really need someone who is a research mentor and has time in their schedule to dedicate to research. If you start calling doctors randomly you're more likely to get some random clinical physician who has "always wondered whether x is associated with y" but doesn't have the infrastructure or insight into how to go about getting that question answered.

Which field are you interested in? Is there research in a related field? Are you actually interested in that field or is this an "I like neurosurgery because they are the top of the food chain" situation that many preclinical students fall into? (No offense but I've seen it so many times)

 

[22031 Alum]

I'm not sure cold-calling doctors is the best idea. Even the smallest department should have some sort of support staff who could start to point you towards faculty who 1) do research, and 2) have the time and motivation to work with medical students. Your school might not have every specialty, but Medicine, Surgery, Peds, and Ob/Gyn are good places to start.

Also, I think you will get much more "bang for your buck" if you work with a department that is present at your school, as opposed to trying to cobble something together remotely. Especially now, when you don't know what specialty you'll end up wanting to go into. In most cases, having more long-term and in-depth involvement with a project is looked upon favorably no matter the specialty. You can do that best at "the mothership."

 

[wsxedc]

That's a really good point. The reality is I'm feeling kind of desperate at right now, but I shouldn't let that translate into getting myself into a sticky research mess.

I'm interested in EM, so kind of middle of the road. I've been told that research isn't so important for EM residencies, but in my case I'm truly interested in it so I really would like to pursue it. But it seems like it might be wiser to widen my net and prioritize finding a good mentor in any field over a poorer one in EM? The standing imperative to figure out my own proposal and methods still stands in those fields as well, but obviously if I expand my options I should have more success in connecting with somebody.

One opportunity that I fished out was through my school's public health department (with MPH students). It is more of a needs assessment type thing and while that's interesting, it's not the hypothesis-driven research I have come to thrive on. Since a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, do you think it might be wise to take that opportunity while still pursuing opportunities in clinical research? At what point should I worry about being too scattered?

Another very sincere thank you for taking your time to help me out here.

 

[Goro]

Are there any independent research institutes in your city? You'd be surprised at what connections you might be able to find. Also inquire into any Biotech companies, that might have some clinical trials going on.

Hello SDN. I'm a MS1 at a lower-tier med school, and I'm interested in getting involved with research. Problem is my school is not research focused at all and I'm having loads of trouble getting started. I have a pretty extensive background in basic science and have several solid publications in that area from the time between undergrad and med school, but I'd like to get involved in clinical research. That's just not happening at the moment.

Several people I've tried to talk to have essentially said "Come back with a very specific research proposal with methods that don't cost any money, and we'll see if maybe we can find somebody to work with you." My initial thought was that I'd just have to be a self-starter and put the work in and come up with a proposal but I've spent the past two weeks over the holiday doing nothing but reading articles and thinking about research topics, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm simply not at the level where I can take a clinical research project from conception to completion on my own. I am brand new to anything that doesn't involve pipettes and I just don't feel equipped to plunge into this solo. And it makes me feel like an idiot, because maybe other first year med students are? Either that or it's bad advising, and I don't know which.

I have been missing research a lot so I have been looking forward to jumping back in. I'm also interested in a moderately competitive specialty where research would be to my advantage, so I don't think I should just give up. But I have literally no idea what to do right now. I thought of my professors, but they are all in basic science. I talked to some administrators, and they were the ones who directed me to the people I spoke with. My school is not near any other med schools so I can't just work at a nearby med school.

Does anybody have any suggestion for me?

 

[235009]

EM is amenable to research in ANY field. IM or any subspecialty, particularly critical care. All surgical fields. OB. Every specialty has patients that go through the ED and you can find a project that at least remotely relates to the ED. Even if you can't EM programs won't be picky about the type of research you do. The goal should be to advance your skills and continue doing scholarly activity.

Are there any independent research institutes in your city? You'd be surprised at what connections you might be able to find. Also inquire into any Biotech companies, that might have some clinical trials going on.

This is a bad idea. You don't have any time or sufficient background for these places to be interested in you.

 

[22031 Alum]

Large, industry-level clinical trials are not generally what I have in mind when I recommend that students get involved in clinical research. A medical student's time and ability to meaningfully contribute to such trials will be pretty limited. I mean things a bit lower on the hierarchy of evidence, like:

--A case series of some funky CT finding in a given disease.
--A case control study to see what factors are associated with a certain cancer.
--A prospective cohort study describing the characteristics and outcomes of all the patients who have XYZ treatment in a given year.
--A QI study on throughput times in a clinic.

Any of the above could produce publishable results that actually add to the body of knowledge, in a reasonable amount of time for a student to commit. All the time, I see students and residents paralyzed into complete inaction because they think "research" has to be either running gels, or performing a multicenter placebo-controlled drug trial.

 

[wsxedc]

Thank you to everyone for all of the replies. I'm going to give this another go with this new knowledge.

 

[pocillopora]

Apologies for reviving this thread...

This summer I will be working under a really great PI (a clinician at one of my schools affiliated hospitals who is quite active in research) on a case control study and was wondering if it would be taboo to ask him if he or any of his fellows had any recent patients that would be good fodder for a case report(s). I read what typhoonegator said, however I feel hesitant to ask since I would not have been involved in the patient's medical treatment. Is it commonplace for med students to help write up case reports they were not involved with to buff their research a little extra?