In Training Exam used for employment

[doc1234567]

Just a thread regarding the In Training Exam Scores being used to decide on hiring attending physicians in Internal Medicine, isn't this against the rules of confidentiality?

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[Winged Scapula]

Just a thread regarding the In Training Exam Scores being used to decide on hiring attending physicians in Internal Medicine, isn't this against the rules of confidentiality?

What rules of confidentiality? Are you implying that your PD is not allowed to release the scores at all? Or that potential employers are not allowed to ask for them?

I'd be interested in knowing, as the situation with the ITE is totally different in surgery (where the exam is mandatory, used for promotion and is asked for on fellowship apps).

 

[Bobblehead]

Never had anyone ask about my ITE, either residency or fellowship. But this is for IM. The only thing anyone ever cares about in the end is board certification.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The IM ITE is specifically not supposed to be used as a "high stakes" exam, and specifically is not supposed to be used for promotions (or demotions) nor for fellowships. On the other hand, we are told to use it for assessment of Medical Knowledge.

Whether it should be used for hiring decisions after residency is an open question. In general, no. Your PD shouldn't release the score without discussing it with you first. However there is no rule about this, it's simply common courtesy. If you're being considered by the institution where you trained, then of course they'll end up using your scores, since they know them.

 

[angel80]

I was told that the IM intraining scores were not to be seen by anyone other that your program director. The scores are to be used only to assess your knowledge and guide your studying.

 

[Law2Doc]

I was told that the IM intraining scores were not to be seen by anyone other that your program director. The scores are to be used only to assess your knowledge and guide your studying.

"I was told" plus a nickel is worth about 5 cents. There is probably no legal or contractual obligation that would prevent use of the scores. There may be a "good faith" or customary expectation that the PD won't use or share the info, except for certain limited purposes.

 

[dragonfly99]

The ABIM (I believe it is them) specifically says the scores aren't supposed to be used for promotion, demotion and I think also not for pickingn fellowship applicants. I've never heard of it being asked for when hiring people as hospitalists, etc. Your program really isn't supposed to be releasing your specific scores. In that sense, it's very different from the surgery ITE's. However, I think that probably some (a lot?) of PD's probably use it to assess your knowledge base for purposes of LOR's/residency program director letter. In that sense they could help or hurt you, and sometimes programs are not necessarily up front with trainees about that. Also, at one program a 60 or 70%ile might be considered a good score, while at others that might be average or considered not so hot...

 

[DrBacchi]

The IM ITE is specifically not supposed to be used as a "high stakes" exam, and specifically is not supposed to be used for promotions (or demotions) nor for fellowships. On the other hand, we are told to use it for assessment of Medical Knowledge.

Whether it should be used for hiring decisions after residency is an open question. In general, no. Your PD shouldn't release the score without discussing it with you first. However there is no rule about this, it's simply common courtesy. If you're being considered by the institution where you trained, then of course they'll end up using your scores, since they know them.

According to this, it's quite clear that it should not be used for hiring decisions in any cases.

The examination is neither a qualifying nor a certifying instrument. It should not be used for determining who should be promoted, who should be eligible to take the American Board of Internal Medicine certifying examination, or who may be qualified for post-residency fellowship training. It is designed only as a self-assessment tool.
http://www.acponline.org/education_recertification/education/in_training/#4

 

[gutonc]

According to this, it's quite clear that it should not be used for hiring decisions in any cases.

The examination is neither a qualifying nor a certifying instrument. It should not be used for determining who should be promoted, who should be eligible to take the American Board of Internal Medicine certifying examination, or who may be qualified for post-residency fellowship training. It is designed only as a self-assessment tool.
http://www.acponline.org/education_recertification/education/in_training/#4

Just because it's not supposed to, doesn't mean it isn't. I doubt it's often blatantly reported in an LOR or other setting "Dr. Jones scored in the 15th %ile on his PGY3 ITE." But I'm quite certain that it is one of the things used when writing that LOR or when the fellowship PD or group director calls your PD to ask how you did as a resident.

One thing that many of us (myself definitely included) learn too late in this business is that EVERYTHING matters. Step 1 matters, Step 2 matters, Step 3 can matter, shelf exams matter, the ITE can matter, etc. Don't blow off a test (any test) because you heard it didn't matter. You heard wrong.

 

[jackieMD2007]

. Step 1 matters, Step 2 matters, Step 3 can matter, shelf exams matter, the ITE can matter, etc. Don't blow off a test (any test) because you heard it didn't matter. You heard wrong.

Maybe we should get this on a T-shirt. 👍

 

[dragonfly99]

guton is right like he usually is...
people tell you they won't use these scores for stuff, and then they do. It's somewhat true that test scores matter a bit less as you move up the ranks, but they do matter. They don't matter as much as USMLE Step 1, which basically determines whether you can do derm or ortho or not, but they matter...