Incoming M1, want to start research early, but which field?

[Lannister]

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I really don't have my mind set on any particular specialty right now, but the specialty I'm most interested in at the moment is ENT. I know that for ENT, research is a must. But my concern is, what if I start doing ENT-related research during my first year, then realize I'm not smart/competitive enough to match into ENT? I'm hoping that by the end of the first year I'll have an idea of whether or not I'll be competitive enough for ENT and whether or not I actually like it. But would not starting research until the summer after my first year look bad? And if I did do ENT-related research and then decided not to go to the ENT route, would that look bad when applying for other residencies?
I'm sure these fears are somewhat irrational but I put off research for too long in undergrad and I highly regret it, so I don't want that to happen again in medical school.

Also, dumb unrelated question, are MS1 and M1 the same thing?

 

[Goro]

Just pick a lab that doing something interesting to you, or is doing something you want ot learn about (say, qPCR).

You're going to change your mind about specialities about 1000x. Most of my students only know at the end of year III what they DON'T want to do!

 

[Warderino92]

I spoke with a radiologist program director not too long ago and was pretty much told that it didn't matter what type of research I did as long as I had something to add to my CV. I'm sure some fields would like specific research in their field of course but at the end of the day something is better than nothing.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Your situation is just like mine and a lot of my classmates'. We have multiple specialty interests, but one of them is considerably more competitive than the others (for me it's ortho, my close friend it's ophtho, 2 other friends it's ENT, another friend it's rad onc). I really like ortho, but I also like GI, cardio, and EM. However, knowing that ortho is much more competitive than the other 3, I'm trying to build myself up to becoming competitive for ortho. This has entailed a bunch of things: studying hard to get as close to 1st quartile as possible (it factors into 4th year AOA, which is fortunately determined for us before ERAS submissions are due), trying to do as much ortho research as I can before serious step 1 studying begins in late second semester of MS2, and trying to network with as many people in my school's ortho dept as possible. And obviously I hope to achieve a really high step 1 score too. I know all my friends who are in similar situations have been doing the same things, and we all think it's completely reasonable to do so, especially the "doing research in that most competitive specialty you like" part. As long as you have demonstrated on your CV that you can do research and have something to show for it, it won't matter what specialty the research was for. And, if you build yourself up to become definitively competitive for ENT and you find out at the end of 3rd year that you don't want to do ENT, then you'll still be good for pretty much any other specialty in terms of competitiveness. It also doesn't look bad to start research the summer after MS-1; lots of people don't start until then. I started earlier but only because I was able to find a project I could work on.

Also, MS1 and M1 are literally the same thing.

 

[lampshade4u]

do research in the most competitive field that interests you, because the more competitive fields are going to care more about 1. research #'s and 2. research in their specific field. As you fall down the ladder of competitiveness specialty-wise 1. and 2. become less important.

 

[Redpancreas]

I really don't have my mind set on any particular specialty right now, but the specialty I'm most interested in at the moment is ENT. I know that for ENT, research is a must. But my concern is, what if I start doing ENT-related research during my first year, then realize I'm not smart/competitive enough to match into ENT? I'm hoping that by the end of the first year I'll have an idea of whether or not I'll be competitive enough for ENT and whether or not I actually like it. But would not starting research until the summer after my first year look bad? And if I did do ENT-related research and then decided not to go to the ENT route, would that look bad when applying for other residencies?
I'm sure these fears are somewhat irrational but I put off research for too long in undergrad and I highly regret it, so I don't want that to happen again in medical school.

Also, dumb unrelated question, are MS1 and M1 the same thing?

In my experience, I had a good idea of how good of a student I was relative to my classmates after M1, so yes, I agree that that is an adequate time to decide that. That being said, I think the summer after your first year is THE ONLY time you should consider doing research throughout pre-clinical years. If you really want ENT, you're going to have to be among the highest Step 1 scorers in the nation (see USMLE First Aid 2016). The best way to do this is to master the content in your first two years and use your time off to study to perfect your technique. Doing research on the side will likely distract you.

One important thing to note is that medical school is very different from high school and undergrad in that applying to the next step doesn't require you to be involved in all sorts of activities/hoop jumping. Yeah, research is the most valuable out of all activities but your Step 1 score far outweighs it.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

Definitely do ENT research now if you think you might want to apply in ENT. If you do decide on ENT, then this will be invaluable for your application, and if you decide on something else (will prob be less competitive than ENT), then it can only help you too. ENT research would also be useful for applications in other surgical specialties to some extent. If you decide to not apply in ENT, just be prepared to explain in interviews how you decided on your actual specialty.

 

[Donald Juan]

Do the research in whatever you're interested in right now (be it ENT or whatever). There's no way to be mind reader and figure out that you will end up applying to derm or ophtho or whatever other competitive specialty in the future, and no matter what you do they will be happy to see some research on your CV. So, just do what you like right now, but don't feel like it will cut any doors out later...it will actually help out no matter where you go.

 

[Lannister]

Thanks everyone!

 

[WilliamofOckham]

If totally unsure, something related to cancer. Most versatile.

 

[Affiche]

I am completely in the same position.

I work with a PI who is phenomenal and working to get me published throughout medical school (first publication currently pending), but it's not in a specialty I'm crazy about. I want to stick with these projects that will surely result in publications, but I don't want to spend all my time in one specialty in case I become interested in something more competitive. No clue what the right move is here, but it's crazy to think that other people have their **** together at this point lol.

 

[charmiedermie]

I really don't have my mind set on any particular specialty right now, but the specialty I'm most interested in at the moment is ENT. I know that for ENT, research is a must. But my concern is, what if I start doing ENT-related research during my first year, then realize I'm not smart/competitive enough to match into ENT? I'm hoping that by the end of the first year I'll have an idea of whether or not I'll be competitive enough for ENT and whether or not I actually like it. But would not starting research until the summer after my first year look bad? And if I did do ENT-related research and then decided not to go to the ENT route, would that look bad when applying for other residencies?
I'm sure these fears are somewhat irrational but I put off research for too long in undergrad and I highly regret it, so I don't want that to happen again in medical school.

Also, dumb unrelated question, are MS1 and M1 the same thing?

Med school is like ladies' figure skating. You've already jumped to the free skate, when you should concentrate on the required elements of the short program first - grades, board scores. Get involved in ENT research after your M1 in the summer, assuming you're still interested. Research won't make up for bad grades or board scores.

 

[Psai]

Med school is like ladies' figure skating. You've already jumped to the free skate, when you should concentrate on the required elements of the short program first - grades, board scores. Get involved in ENT research after your M1 in the summer, assuming you're still interested. Research won't make up for bad grades or board scores.

I remember a person worrying about research and their M1 summer plans. They ended up failing a class; that was their summer haha

 

[Affiche]

Med school is like ladies' figure skating. You've already jumped to the free skate, when you should concentrate on the required elements of the short program first - grades, board scores. Get involved in ENT research after your M1 in the summer, assuming you're still interested. Research won't make up for bad grades or board scores.

My school has a research component to the curriculum that begins in M1, so it's really not jumping the gun as much as it's trying to to carefully consider a decision I will need to make in the next six months anyway. I'm trying to sort out if I would be doing myself a disservice by sticking with a project that will get me published albeit in a non-competitive specialty that I'm not crazy about.

 

[WedgeDawg]

If you have interests in multiple fields, do research in the most competitive field your first summer. It's always easier to switch from ENT to IM than it is to go from IM to ENT.

If your interests are similar in competitiveness (say, ENT and Uro or something), either pick one and roll with it (research your first summer won't be your make or break for either of these anyway) or pick a topic that might be applicable to both of them (say, a project about surgical site infections, a project about microsurgical techniques, or a translational cancer project).

 

[Affiche]

If you have interests in multiple fields, do research in the most competitive field your first summer. It's always easier to switch from ENT to IM than it is to go from IM to ENT.

If your interests are similar in competitiveness (say, ENT and Uro or something), either pick one and roll with it (research your first summer won't be your make or break for either of these anyway) or pick a topic that might be applicable to both of them (say, a project about surgical site infections, a project about microsurgical techniques, or a translational cancer project).

What if you're interested in a few different subspecialties of internal medicine? Is the best advice still to pursue research in the most competitive field, or is it less important if you're sticking within the IM subspecialties?

From what I understand, cardiology is more competitive than say neurology, but I don't know enough about residencies at this point to understand the usefulness of research in another, less competitive, subspecialty of IM. They all go through IM in intern year, right? I'm clearly confused lol.

 

[WedgeDawg]

What if you're interested in a few different subspecialties of internal medicine? Is the best advice still to pursue research in the most competitive field, or is it less important if you're sticking within the IM subspecialties?

From what I understand, cardiology is more competitive than say neurology, but I don't know enough about residencies at this point to understand the usefulness of research in another, less competitive, subspecialty of IM. They all go through IM in intern year, right? I'm clearly confused lol.

Not really any sort of expert in matching IM subspecialties but basically what I've picked up is that if you match to a decent university program, you can more or less match any IM subspecialty. If you want to match an IM fellowship at a top program, it helps to come from a top residency however, and the top IM residencies like research.

The way IM works is everyone does 3 years of internal medicine residency regardless of whether you're doing a fellowship or not. That's your intern year (PGY1), junior year (PGY2), and senior year (PGY3). Some people stay on as chief resident for PGY4 (generally if they want to improve their fellowship app or haven't decided which fellowship they want to pursue but know they want to do one). You apply to IM fellowships either the end of your 2nd year or beginning of your 3rd year (I'm not sure which - I'm sure someone familiar with IM can come and correct me). IM fellowships are 1-3 years depending on the specialty (and in cards they can go even longer if you do something like interventional cards). So its 4 years med + 3 years residency + 1-3 years of fellowship.

Neurology is not an IM subspecialty - it's its own residency. You do have to do a preliminary intern year (either prelim medicine, prelim surgery, or a transitional year), but then you do 3 years of neurology residency for a total of 4 years of residency. So you don't do IM first and then neurology - you just match neurology (and neurology is a less competitive match than IM on the whole).

In terms of research for IM, I would just pick something and roll with it. Your M1 summer research is unlikely to have a significant impact on where you match in terms of your research productivity - however, doing research then will help make connections with IM faculty which can lead to strong letters or other application boosters that are also helpful in and of themselves.

 

[Affiche]

Not really any sort of expert in matching IM subspecialties but basically what I've picked up is that if you match to a decent university program, you can more or less match any IM subspecialty. If you want to match an IM fellowship at a top program, it helps to come from a top residency however, and the top IM residencies like research.

The way IM works is everyone does 3 years of internal medicine residency regardless of whether you're doing a fellowship or not. That's your intern year (PGY1), junior year (PGY2), and senior year (PGY3). Some people stay on as chief resident for PGY4 (generally if they want to improve their fellowship app or haven't decided which fellowship they want to pursue but know they want to do one). You apply to IM fellowships either the end of your 2nd year or beginning of your 3rd year (I'm not sure which - I'm sure someone familiar with IM can come and correct me). IM fellowships are 1-3 years depending on the specialty (and in cards they can go even longer if you do something like interventional cards). So its 4 years med + 3 years residency + 1-3 years of fellowship.

Neurology is not an IM subspecialty - it's its own residency. You do have to do a preliminary intern year (either prelim medicine, prelim surgery, or a transitional year), but then you do 3 years of neurology residency for a total of 4 years of residency. So you don't do IM first and then neurology - you just match neurology (and neurology is a less competitive match than IM on the whole).

In terms of research for IM, I would just pick something and roll with it. Your M1 summer research is unlikely to have a significant impact on where you match in terms of your research productivity - however, doing research then will help make connections with IM faculty which can lead to strong letters or other application boosters that are also helpful in and of themselves.

Ah, thank you for clarifying!! The prelim medicine year that some Neurologists do threw me off. Your post was super helpful for me.

I'm less concerned about M1 summer research (I'm not even planning to do research then, as of now) and more concerned about the project I choose for the research component of our curriculum.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Ah, thank you for clarifying!! The prelim medicine year that some Neurologists do threw me off. Your post was super helpful for me.

I'm less concerned about M1 summer research (I'm not even planning to do research then, as of now) and more concerned about the project I choose for the research component of our curriculum.

Most schools with research components have them in the last two years, so that's not something you need to worry about yet.

 

[Affiche]

Most schools with research components have them in the last two years, so that's not something you need to worry about yet.

Our school's research component is across all four years. You choose your project by the end of M1 and the goal is to complete data collection by the end of M2. You can always change projects later, but from what upperclassmen say, that can set you back tremendously.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Our school's research component is across all four years. You choose your project by the end of M1 and the goal is to complete data collection by the end of M2. You can always change projects later, but from what upperclassmen say, that can set you back tremendously.

Interesting. Well what I would do is talk to someone in your school's IM department (preferably the residency or clerkship director) and see what they think - that's probably the best way to go about finding a topic for your project.

 

[charmiedermie]

I remember a person worrying about research and their M1 summer plans. They ended up failing a class; that was their summer haha

Was that the person asking about doing research in the summer, while remediating? I don't think he understood how serious it was.

 

[charmiedermie]

My school has a research component to the curriculum that begins in M1, so it's really not jumping the gun as much as it's trying to to carefully consider a decision I will need to make in the next six months anyway. I'm trying to sort out if I would be doing myself a disservice by sticking with a project that will get me published albeit in a non-competitive specialty that I'm not crazy about.

Is it an actual research class? That's a different case than @Lannister. Are there several fields you're interested in which a research project might connect them all? Like Radiology, Oncology, and Ortho?

 

[Affiche]

Is it an actual research class? That's a different case than @Lannister. Are there several fields you're interested in which a research project might connect them all? Like Radiology, Oncology, and Ortho?

It's a required research project that has requirements that need to be met each year. I think there's an actual class-like component that requires meeting every once in a while for IRB seminars and whatnot, but most of it is independent work with your research mentor.

I'm really not sure what I'm interested in at this point, but I know that I'm not interested in anything surgery related, family med, and likely not ER either. Beyond that, I'm completely open. Without saying too much, I have a career right now in clinical research in a specialty that I'm not convinced I love yet, but it's really easy for me to start publishing in this field. However, this field is less competitive than others that I may be interested in, so I'm trying to figure out if I should stick with the PIs I know well who have my best interest at heart or branch into another field for research where I essentially know nothing and no one lol. The research I'm currently working on doesn't connect much with other fields, either.

 

[Wordead]

I did all my research in another field, realized I liked ENT more after rotating through M3 year. Worked to get a couple ENT pubs M3 year before I applied and got plenty of interviews. Like everyone else, would recommend doing the ENT research and if you decide its not for you then it won't be a huge problem to switch.

 

[Elessar]

I did all my research in another field, realized I liked ENT more after rotating through M3 year. Worked to get a couple ENT pubs M3 year before I applied and got plenty of interviews.

How common is this? Isn't it difficult to publish during your busy M3 rotations?

 

[Psai]

How common is this? Isn't it difficult to publish during your busy M3 rotations?

Easier in some than others. Elective usually has more free time and weekends. You're generally doing case reports and chart review which takes less time than bench work.

 

[Wordead]

How common is this? Isn't it difficult to publish during your busy M3 rotations?

What Psai said above. I also just **** it to my peds rotation and high passed it.