Indecision with residency rank list

[GERD]

I am a current M4 in Michigan, about to submit my rank order list for anesthesiology residencies. I am struggling with getting this list together, and was hoping this group could offer some insight.

So the main predicament I am dealing with is whether to stay in Michigan, which will logistically, financially, and mentally be much easier (wife's job, daughter, family nearby, etc.), or to rank the bigger name programs highest (MGH, Northwestern, Stanford, Yale, UPMC). My wife is 100% understanding and on board with whatever decision I ultimately make.

My question is, in your experience, how much does program reputation/name come into play when it comes to future job prospects? I want to eventually live and work in Michigan, so would I be better off doing my training nearby where the programs are well-known and local connections can be made?

The University of Michigan offers me the best of both worlds, big name and preferable location, so I plan on ranking this number one. But assuming I go the 'staying in Michigan route', what are your opinions on the other 3 programs; DMC, Henry Ford, and Beaumont. Is there a general consensus within anesthesia circles on these programs in relation to one-another? Would you take this into consideration when hiring someone into your group?

Lastly, does anyone have any anecdotal experiences they would be willing to share if they or someone they know was having the same troubles forming their rank list.

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[deleted875186]

Can’t speak to knowing anything about the programs in Michigan, my personal opinion is you take one for the greater good of the family and match close to family. On a whole I think you’ll be much happier down the road. You’ll also be much happier throughout residency, 4 years isn’t a short amount of time. My two $

 

[dannyboy1]

Anesthesiologist: “I trained at MGH”
Response : “that’s nice doc, now can you please put the f@cking patient to sleep so I can do my cysto”.
Seriously, prestige matters very little in this field, your wife’s job (and income) along with family support nearby for your kid should have you ranking every local program higher.

 

[Nivens]

Michigan seemed like a great place to train when I interviewed there a couple of years ago, and it certainly isn’t going to shut any fellowship doors. I’d just stay there...

 

[bellevueperson]

I graduated from UMMS and would've strongly considered staying there for residency if I'd had family ties to the area. Great clinical training, research, and chair. From what I've heard from med school classmates who stayed at Michigan, they made a good decision.

Since you're planning on settling in the area, I'd recommend staying.

 

[zizzer]

I could see your concern if the local program wasn't very good, but Michigan is one of the best for anesthesiology. It seems like it should be an easy number 1. One of our CTA fellows here told me the other CTA fellows from Michigan residency program are really solid anesthesiologists.

 

[Psai]

Stay in Michigan man

 

[Erakis]

I am a current M4 in Michigan, about to submit my rank order list for anesthesiology residencies. I am struggling with getting this list together, and was hoping this group could offer some insight.

So the main predicament I am dealing with is whether to stay in Michigan, which will logistically, financially, and mentally be much easier (wife has amazing job here, we have a 2 yr old daughter, family nearby, etc.), or to rank the bigger name programs highest (MGH, Northwestern, Stanford, Yale, UPMC). My wife is 100% understanding and on board with whatever decision I ultimately make.

My question is, in your experience, how much does program reputation/name come into play when it comes to future job prospects? I want to eventually live and work in Michigan, so would I be better off doing my training nearby where the programs are well-known and local connections can be made?

The University of Michigan offers me the best of both worlds, big name and preferable location, so I plan on ranking this number one. But assuming I go the 'staying in Michigan route', what are your opinions on the other 3 programs; DMC, Henry Ford, and Beaumont. Is there a general consensus within anesthesia circles on these programs in relation to one-another? Would you take this into consideration when hiring someone into your group?

Lastly, does anyone have any anecdotal experiences they would be willing to share if they or someone they know was having the same troubles forming their rank list.

My wife and I ended up separated for two years due to an unexpected job change right after the match. I would do anything to stay with her and no amount of name recognition would make me want otherwise. Besides, as a resident, there is nothing more important than a happy partner (I assume a stable satisfying job would help with that) and some help with the little ones from family. Based an the information you gave, Michigan sounds hands down the best option.

 

[abolt18]

I loved University of Michigan when I interviewed there last year. Ranked it number 1.


Didn't match there.....


It's okay though, I'm not salty. I'm very happy where I ended up. Realistically, I felt like my top 4 were almost interchangeable, but Michigan just gave me the most feel goods.

 

[Nivens]

If you’re struggling a bit internally because a part of you wants to go for a big name (nothing wrong with feeling that way- many more people do than are willing to admit it), trust me, the thrill of wearing the fleece with the fancy crest lasts about a week. Then it just becomes another place to work. If Michigan were on the eastern seaboard or in California, it would be in the same category of those places you named.

Besides, that’s where Dr House went to medical school 😉

 

[AdmiralChz]

It’s hard to put more emphasis on the importance of family and having a strong home support system in residency. I’ve unfortunately seen several marriages struggle and even some end with a spouse taking a training post far away. Those same people really struggled with their training. Of course that’s anecdotal but now that I’m married with a small child at home... it’s an easy decision where I’d go, particularly for 4 years.

I’d stay with the fam even if it was back woods insert-random-state here, I know personally I’d probably grow more to resent “prestigious” programs if I had to leave them for that long, and it’d affect my training to a negative degree. Go where you are happiest and most comfortable, you won’t regret your decision.

 

[Wiscoblue]

UM then Henry Ford. Then the rest. Beaumont used to be good.

But UM by far. And then a fellowship.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[deleted592694]

You said in your post: "I want to eventually live and work in Michigan" -- in general; depending on what practice model you choose (private vs. academic and the individual institution), training where you want to end up is a good bet. If you have the luxury of being able to rank programs like U of M above MGH/BI/Stanford etc, then I suspect you will do very well very wherever you go. I absolutely did not have the same luxury during residency applications, but when it came time to choosing fellowship programs, I still chose location/family over prestige despite being told I had options. This is really a no-brainer, and you should stay in MI.

 

[Robotic Wis-Hipple]

If you want to stay in Michigan, it’s an easy choice, go to UM. Beyond residency, if you want to do a fellowship, you’re basically guaranteed to stay at Michigan for a fellowship whereas if you leave, then want to go back for Fellowship you’re much less likely to match there. UM is well known to fill from within.

 

[lverbmb]

I definitely think you should rank UM #1 but just to give you something to consider- if your wife really is ok with your decision I wouldn’t rank the rest of your list as location >>>> program unless it is dire for your personal life that you are in a certain area (it seems not so if your wife is as understanding as you first stated). You only train once so go to a program you’ll also be proud to have said you trained at- this doesn’t mean just a brand name program- it just means a program that will shape you into a great anesthesiologist. I do agree that it’s mostly the person who makes himself great and that the program has less an influence. That being said, exposure, mentorship and generally surrounding yourself with people who are also striving for excellence does help. I think this comment will be a mute point cause if you interviewed at all the brand name programs you’ll likely have your choice of programs and will match at UM. Congrats on doing well in medical school and keep up the good work!

 

[GERD]

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies. I’m new to sdn so didn’t notice the action until now.

I am definitely planning on ranking UMICH #1 regardless, but I am mainly battling with whether to rank 2,3,4 the other Michigan programs, and in what order, (mainly HF vs Beaumont), or to rank 2 and onwards the best possible programs out of state.

 

[GERD]

After reading your comments and talking with my wife, I am leaning more and more towards staying in-state. It’s tough, though, and I change my mind several times a day.

 

[Psai]

If you're going to be a great anesthesiologist, you will be one almost regardless of where you train. The big name programs do have a lot of resources but ultimately you're the one in charge of your education. Stanford can't turn a dud into a superstar despite the reputation.

All of the places you mention are fine places to train as far as I know.

 

[jqueb29]

Hope you chose to stay in Michigan. The Stanford residents literally told all of us at dinner to do whatever necessary to ensure we don't match there, as they were miserable and overworked.

 

[deleted162650]

The Stanford residents literally told all of us at dinner to do whatever necessary to ensure we don't match there, as they were miserable and overworked.

LOL. I remember back when I interviewed there every resident would say something nice about the program immediately followed by "We do work really hard though"

 

[step213]

Wasn't going to respond but as its match season I feel the need to.

Honestly - do we work hard? Yes
but are we miserable? No.
Is it meaningful hard work - a resounding yes.

On the interview trail now for fellowship as a CA-3 and comparing experiences with residents at other programs I've come to realize the learning opportunities that Stanford provided me were outstanding even compared to other programs of the same caliber. I think our feelings of "we work hard" come from the very same experiences that make this program great. A heart-lung at 2am. Multiple liver transplants over one weekend (a couple of months ago one of my co residents personally did 3 in 48 hours) 3 back to back type A's with DHCA in one saturday call (while i look back fondly on this memory it still makes me cringe a little), a kidney transplant on a 12 month old. Doing peds cardiac as a resident on q4 call... all of these experiences were really unique opportunities for a CA1-CA2 resident - but yes it does make our call schedule busy even when they are home calls as its not uncommon to go from 7am-7am. But it wasn't until I got out on the interview trial that I realized things I take for granted as part of my residency experience are consider "fellow level" cases at other institutions.

I think the most important part is that our attendings are amazing and great teachers - they don't leave you alone in a room to rot and when stuff is going down the toilet they are right there beside you. And honestly don't read into the comment above too much and just take it for face value. We do have many nice things to say about the program that make it sound amazing, but we aren't trying to fool anyone into thinking that you won't work hard here for that amazing experience. If you aren't willing to work hard in residency quite honestly Stanford isn't the program for you. But if you really want to see the full scope of anesthesia and deal with really sick patients undergoing unique procedures then come check us out - in terms of breadth I don't think we are really lacking in anything.

 

[deleted162650]

A heart-lung at 2am. Multiple liver transplants over one weekend (a couple of months ago one of my co residents personally did 3 in 48 hours) 3 back to back type A's with DHCA in one saturday call (while i look back fondly on this memory it still makes me cringe a little), a kidney transplant on a 12 month old. Doing peds cardiac as a resident on q4 call

These are awesome resident experiences.

when stuff is going down the toilet they are right there beside you

I don't think this is always a good thing. You need to be able to figure out and handle these situations on your own.

 

[Psai]

These are awesome resident experiences.



I don't think this is always a good thing. You need to be able to figure out and handle these situations on your own.

Yeah I kinda wish some of my attendings would let me struggle by myself a bit more. But generally i am happy with my experience.

 

[step213]

I think some struggling is good but also you need some guidance when things are over your head. I found I got both at Stanford- some examples of when I did appreciate attending guidance : struggling to get off bypass, bloody livers (transfused 120ish units of product for one), and peds cardiac... no one wants to be left alone with a blue baby as a resident... I don’t want to make this a “how great Stanford” is thread. I just wanted to clarify that our reputation that we “work hard” also reflects the depth and breadth of training here and it is NOT malignant in anyway