Institutional Action - Need Assurance

[Majin]

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I've seen the the other threads throughout the website but my situation is a bit different...so here it goes..thanks guys in advance

Sophomore year in the dorms (should have moved out of the dorms..i know), me and a few buddies were written up for alcohol and bunch of other stuff in one incident. I got a email from the dean of students saying i was being charged of a bunch of stuff and they arranged a meeting with the alcohol consular saying if i completed this seminar and accepted my violations/charged I would not have a conduct record. I also had the option to go to a judicial conference and fight the charges..but if I was guilty, then I would have a record. I decided not to fight since i wouldn't beat all the charges and i didnt want a record...

Fast forward one year...I now finished my junior year and Im debating if i should apply to med school this cycle or not. However, idk what to answer on the amcas question of IA...I called the office of student conduct and they said that they do have a incident report of the violation and of me going to the alcohol consular but they would not report it to a medical school since I have not been in anymore trouble. They told me since i decided to attend the meeting instead of fighting the charges, the record was "deleted", and then they said with 99% certainty that I could answer no to the IA question..

Will I be doing the right thing? I know people might say reporting it is not a huge deal but im a borderline applicant so it is for me..thanks guys so much

 

[aspiring20]

I've seen the the other threads throughout the website but my situation is a bit different...so here it goes..thanks guys in advance

Sophomore year in the dorms (should have moved out of the dorms..i know), me and a few buddies were written up for alcohol and bunch of other stuff in one incident. I got a email from the dean of students saying i was being charged of a bunch of stuff and they arranged a meeting with the alcohol consular saying if i completed this seminar and accepted my violations/charged I would not have a conduct record. I also had the option to go to a judicial conference and fight the charges..but if I was guilty, then I would have a record. I decided not to fight since i wouldn't beat all the charges and i didnt want a record...

Fast forward one year...I now finished my junior year and Im debating if i should apply to med school this cycle or not. However, idk what to answer on the amcas question of IA...I called the office of student conduct and they said that they do have a incident report of the violation and of me going to the alcohol consular but they would not report it to a medical school since I have not been in anymore trouble. They told me since i decided to attend the meeting instead of fighting the charges, the record was "deleted", and then they said with 99% certainty that I could answer no to the IA question..

Will I be doing the right thing? I know people might say reporting it is not a huge deal but im a borderline applicant so it is for me..thanks guys so much

even if you have to report it (which you DON'T), it would still be a non-issue.

 

[bigdude123987]

no...even though people say its a "non-issue"..it is an issue...not a big one..but it does make your application worse...

on disclosure..idk what you should do. seconadires might be more specific in the question and ask have you ever been subject to any discplinary action..or have you ever been subject to any conduct charges"...and idk how a deleted record plays into account...

get opinion from other people on the forum that have experience.

EDIT: maybe LizzyM can chime in and the acmas question and seconadry question as well..she has experience with IA

 

[Plue00]

I've seen the the other threads throughout the website but my situation is a bit different...so here it goes..thanks guys in advance

Sophomore year in the dorms (should have moved out of the dorms..i know), me and a few buddies were written up for alcohol and bunch of other stuff in one incident. I got a email from the dean of students saying i was being charged of a bunch of stuff and they arranged a meeting with the alcohol consular saying if i completed this seminar and accepted my violations/charged I would not have a conduct record. I also had the option to go to a judicial conference and fight the charges..but if I was guilty, then I would have a record. I decided not to fight since i wouldn't beat all the charges and i didnt want a record...

Fast forward one year...I now finished my junior year and Im debating if i should apply to med school this cycle or not. However, idk what to answer on the amcas question of IA...I called the office of student conduct and they said that they do have a incident report of the violation and of me going to the alcohol consular but they would not report it to a medical school since I have not been in anymore trouble. They told me since i decided to attend the meeting instead of fighting the charges, the record was "deleted", and then they said with 99% certainty that I could answer no to the IA question..

Will I be doing the right thing? I know people might say reporting it is not a huge deal but im a borderline applicant so it is for me..thanks guys so much

Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong since your school told you that you should say no. Why even risk it by saying yes? Especially if you're a borderline applicant.

 

[bigdude123987]

with 99% certainty...the dean of students at OP's school said they have a record of the incident..what if a school finds out...

and the way the OP talks about the incident..and says the he was written up "for alcohol and bunch of other stuff in one incident" seems like the incident was not just a typical beer in the room...not saying it was crazy but it wasnt a extremely minor

 

[CsHead]

with 99% certainty...the dean of students at OP's school said they have a record of the incident..what if a school finds out...

and the way the OP talks about the incident..and says the he was written up "for alcohol and bunch of other stuff in one incident" seems like the incident was not just a typical beer in the room...not saying it was crazy but it wasnt a extremely minor

Eh... might want to try that one again chief.

 

[rodmichael82]

I've seen the the other threads throughout the website but my situation is a bit different...so here it goes..thanks guys in advance

Sophomore year in the dorms (should have moved out of the dorms..i know), me and a few buddies were written up for alcohol and bunch of other stuff in one incident. I got a email from the dean of students saying i was being charged of a bunch of stuff and they arranged a meeting with the alcohol consular saying if i completed this seminar and accepted my violations/charged I would not have a conduct record. I also had the option to go to a judicial conference and fight the charges..but if I was guilty, then I would have a record. I decided not to fight since i wouldn't beat all the charges and i didnt want a record...

Fast forward one year...I now finished my junior year and Im debating if i should apply to med school this cycle or not. However, idk what to answer on the amcas question of IA...I called the office of student conduct and they said that they do have a incident report of the violation and of me going to the alcohol consular but they would not report it to a medical school since I have not been in anymore trouble. They told me since i decided to attend the meeting instead of fighting the charges, the record was "deleted", and then they said with 99% certainty that I could answer no to the IA question..

Will I be doing the right thing? I know people might say reporting it is not a huge deal but im a borderline applicant so it is for me..thanks guys so much

Don't report it.

 

[bigdude123987]

Eh... might want to try that one again chief.

what? what are you even trying to say...

 

[LizzyM]

First off, if AMCAS says, "if you aren't sure about whether you have a record, check with your school." The OP checked and the school said, "you don't have anything that has to be reported." So, it is obvious to me that the OP cannot be faulted for not reporting the incident.

Sometimes schools realize that they will do more to help a student by getting them some education/counseling than giving them a misconduct record. Giving students the choice makes it easier for the student to choose counseling because there are potential negative consequences to not choosing counseling or not following through with that choice.

Counseling alone would not be reportable; it could be seen as part of one's mental health record and therefore private.

 

[pre med 2014]

If they found out about it, it would take a real jerk to kick you out of medical school for a minor alcohol infraction from college that no one even knows if it constitutes IA or not.

 

[MajinSD]

heyooo

 

[pre med 2014]

Well if it was just one incident it wouldn't be a big deal. Except you said it was really recent ( last year?) so I would err on the side of not disclosing if you don't have too since it was so recent.

Maybe you could have them send you a note saying you have no IA, keep the note for your self and if anyone ever asks you have it as proof you attempted to find out.

 

[bigdude123987]

AMCAS Question
"You must answer Yes to this question if you were ever the recipient of any institutional
action by any college or medical school for unacceptable academic performance or
conduct violation, even though such action may not have interrupted your enrollment or
required you to withdraw. You must answer Yes even if the action does not appear on or
has been deleted or expunged from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or
personal petition."

It says you have to answer YES if it has been deleted or expunged from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition...

The question now is...is a disciplinary record a part of your official transcript? If it never made its way on the official transcript and THEN was deleted/expunged, you don't have to report it...right? What do you guys think? Expunged minor IA do not need to be reported then according to AMCAS...

 

[LizzyM]

AMCAS Question
"You must answer Yes to this question if you were ever the recipient of any institutional
action by any college or medical school for unacceptable academic performance or
conduct violation, even though such action may not have interrupted your enrollment or
required you to withdraw. You must answer Yes even if the action does not appear on or
has been deleted or expunged from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or
personal petition."

It says you have to answer YES if it has been deleted or expunged from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition...

The question now is...is a disciplinary record a part of your official transcript? If it never made its way on the official transcript and THEN was deleted/expunged, you don't have to report it...right? What do you guys think? Expunged minor IA do not need to be reported then according to AMCAS...

The deal with the OP is that they would forego giving him a disciplinary record if he agreed to counseling. He did the counseling. He has no disciplinary record and never did have one.

 

[bigdude123987]

well i guess your right lizzy but the OP even said ""the record was "deleted"" in his original post...i think he should be fine then idk...

but hypothetically, if the disciplinary record was expunged/deleted i dont think one would be required to report it contrary to popular belief on these forums...you only have to report it if its on your record according to amcas regardless if it is not on or had been removed from ur official transcript...

 

[LizzyM]

well i guess your right lizzy but the OP even said ""the record was "deleted"" in his original post...i think he should be fine then idk...

but hypothetically, if the disciplinary record was expunged/deleted i dont think one would be required to report it contrary to popular belief on these forums...you only have to report it if its on your record according to amcas regardless if it is not on or had been removed from ur official transcript...

A record can be a record without being a disciplinary record. In this case, they have kept a record of people who were sent for counseling. If a person on that list gets in to trouble down the road, they are not going to be sent for counseling again but are going to be in "big trouble".

The OP has asked his school and he's asked AMCAS and they've told him that the record is such that it is not reportable. That should be good enough for any medical school.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

I've seen the the other threads throughout the website but my situation is a bit different...so here it goes..thanks guys in advance

Sophomore year in the dorms (should have moved out of the dorms..i know), me and a few buddies were written up for alcohol and bunch of other stuff in one incident. I got a email from the dean of students saying i was being charged of a bunch of stuff and they arranged a meeting with the alcohol consular saying if i completed this seminar and accepted my violations/charged I would not have a conduct record. I also had the option to go to a judicial conference and fight the charges..but if I was guilty, then I would have a record. I decided not to fight since i wouldn't beat all the charges and i didnt want a record...

Fast forward one year...I now finished my junior year and Im debating if i should apply to med school this cycle or not. However, idk what to answer on the amcas question of IA...I called the office of student conduct and they said that they do have a incident report of the violation and of me going to the alcohol consular but they would not report it to a medical school since I have not been in anymore trouble. They told me since i decided to attend the meeting instead of fighting the charges, the record was "deleted", and then they said with 99% certainty that I could answer no to the IA question..

Will I be doing the right thing? I know people might say reporting it is not a huge deal but im a borderline applicant so it is for me..thanks guys so much

dude, try thinking for yourself on this one

 

[snowflakes]

wow...OP..i am in the same situation for an IA for alcohol my freshmen year....i was told if i do X and Y following the incident, i would get my record removed. I contacted my school and they said i dont have to report it if i dont want to..

So, im assuming i dont have to report it?

Perhaps email them the exact AMCAS question and save their response so you have it in writing. Then do whatever they say.

 

[LizzyM]

in specific, it is on the internal database and they said it is not part of your disciplinary record but it will go on your disciplinary record if you get in trouble again...

like OP, i accepted a bunch of charges/violations as well...

any advice..lizzy? what should i do

I will go back to what I said earlier:
A record can be a record without being a disciplinary record. In this case, they have kept a record of people who were sent for counseling. If a person on that list gets in to trouble down the road, they are not going to be sent for counseling again but are going to be in "big trouble".

The OP has asked his school and he's asked AMCAS and they've told him that the record is such that it is not reportable. That should be good enough for any medical school.

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Schools are trying to get students to accept help for behavioral problems without sticking them with a disciplinary record that could create a roadblock to academic advancement or employment. Requiring students to report what is essentially a referral to counseling services would not be in anyone's best interest.

In my experience, self-reporting disciplinary measures for public drinking, minor in possession, booze in a dorm room, being at a party where alcohol was provided to minors, and all the other varieties of trouble related to alcohol (including the unfortunate guy who was arrested for pissing in an alley) are not grounds for denying admission. We all know that college students make mistakes, learn from them and move on and that plenty of people with the potential to be good medical students and compassionate physicians can be found among the ranks of medical school applicants who have had some brush with campus police and/or RAs.

 

[aspiring20]

I will go back to what I said earlier:
A record can be a record without being a disciplinary record. In this case, they have kept a record of people who were sent for counseling. If a person on that list gets in to trouble down the road, they are not going to be sent for counseling again but are going to be in "big trouble".

The OP has asked his school and he's asked AMCAS and they've told him that the record is such that it is not reportable. That should be good enough for any medical school.

-----

Schools are trying to get students to accept help for behavioral problems without sticking them with a disciplinary record that could create a roadblock to academic advancement or employment. Requiring students to report what is essentially a referral to counseling services would not be in anyone's best interest.

In my experience, self-reporting disciplinary measures for public drinking, minor in possession, booze in a dorm room, being at a party where alcohol was provided to minors, and all the other varieties of trouble related to alcohol (including the unfortunate guy who was arrested for pissing in an alley) are not grounds for denying admission. We all know that college students make mistakes, learn from them and move on and that plenty of people with the potential to be good medical students and compassionate physicians can be found among the ranks of medical school applicants who have had some brush with campus police and/or RAs.

i only hope my school would do the same for me. but they have other interests.

 

[MajinSD]

interesting...so what is the difference between institutional action and disciplinary action? Wouldn't institutional action also cover things NOT on ur record then? Like if the school (institution) decided to give you an informal punishment off ur record wouldn't it still count as institutional action even though you have a clean record?

 

[LizzyM]

interesting...so what is the difference between institutional action and disciplinary action? Wouldn't institutional action also cover things NOT on ur record then? Like if the school (institution) decided to give you an informal punishment off ur record wouldn't it still count as institutional action even though you have a clean record?

Do you mean something like "Double Secret Probation"?

 

[MajinSD]

Do you mean something like "Double Secret Probation"?

hahahaha...no i mean like "informal warning/talk", referral to consoling, etc...they do not go on a student's disciplinary record but are kept in an internal database to keep a record if future problems show up or maybe punish them later if they mess up again. i saw a lot of threads on sdn about them asking if they count IA

also, would a school ever request for a student's undergraduate file...like everything the school has on file with them including disciplinary, academic, etc.

 

[LizzyM]

A school cannot release information in your file without your permission and it must give you access to your file so that you may review what is in the file. This is federal law known as FERPA. You may waive your right to see a letter of recommendation that is written at your request and that will go in your file, but you may still view the rest of your file and the rest of your file is protected by FERPA from unauthorized disclosure.

I suppose if you met with a student counselor or the dean of students because of a problem at home or in your dorm, let's say you experienced the tragic loss of a close friend or family member or lost everything in a natural disaster, then you'd have a note in your file, or perhaps a series of notes documenting the conversations, etc in case anyone came back and said, "what did the school do to help this student who was struggling with personal issues?" but those meetings would not be "institutional action".

Academic probation (often, undergrad gpa < 2.0) is not the same as being written up for bad behavior but it is institutional action and it does need to be reported.

 

[gobigred3]

You should absolutely not report this if you don't have to. I had an IA and during my interviews it was something that every interviewer asked me about. The admissions process is tough enough that you don't need any more red flags than necessary. If your school would never report your incident than neither should you. That's my 2 cents.

 

[aspiring20]

You should absolutely not report this if you don't have to. I had an IA and during my interviews it was something that every interviewer asked me about. The admissions process is tough enough that you don't need any more red flags than necessary. If your school would never report your incident than neither should you. That's my 2 cents.

what was your IA about, if you dont mind sharing

 

[surfguy84]

First off, if AMCAS says, "if you aren't sure about whether you have a record, check with your school." The OP checked and the school said, "you don't have anything that has to be reported." So, it is obvious to me that the OP cannot be faulted for not reporting the incident.

Sometimes schools realize that they will do more to help a student by getting them some education/counseling than giving them a misconduct record. Giving students the choice makes it easier for the student to choose counseling because there are potential negative consequences to not choosing counseling or not following through with that choice.

Counseling alone would not be reportable; it could be seen as part of one's mental health record and therefore private.

Sorry to top an old post, but I've been freaking out about my situation and the search function led me here....

Similar scenario...I can't remember if I received an IA from some dorm nonsense 13 years ago....called school to confirm one way or another, and they say they only keep disciplinary records for 7 years, and thus, cannot tell me anything because they have no records. I answered NO on AMCAS and AACOMAS, and was accepted. Now I'm worried this will bite me down the line if somehow I was wrong about what happened all those years ago.... any advice here?

 

[LizzyM]

Sorry to top an old post, but I've been freaking out about my situation and the search function led me here....

Similar scenario...I can't remember if I received an IA from some dorm nonsense 13 years ago....called school to confirm one way or another, and they say they only keep disciplinary records for 7 years, and thus, cannot tell me anything because they have no records. I answered NO on AMCAS and AACOMAS, and was accepted. Now I'm worried this will bite me down the line if somehow I was wrong about what happened all those years ago.... any advice here?

Relax. No one cares about something you did 13 years ago if you've been well behaved since then and if the school has no record, then you will not be faulted for failing to report whatever it is that might have happened.

 

[surfguy84]

Relax. No one cares about something you did 13 years ago if you've been well behaved since then and if the school has no record, then you will not be faulted for failing to report whatever it is that might have happened.

that's very reassuring. I've been clean as a whistle since. I just worry this would make me look likea liar...and thus expellable...