Insulin Abuse?

[TheTruckGuy]

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Any of y'all get random body builders coming to your pharmacy asking for insulin and needles? I just came across this article, and I know regular insulin doesn't require a prescription. Was curious how big of an issue this really is.

Bodybuilder Ghent Wakefield's Death Raises Questions About Insulin and Bodybuilding | Men’s Health

 

[DagS132]

should try going to that bodybuilding dot com website and directly asking them. It may be another troll just like how some fitness community blamed creatine on elliot rodgers going crazy.

 

[Zynx]

Interesting, I never knew insulin didn't require a prescription until now. Just shows how often it happens I suppose, but then again I don't work retail.

 

[RNtoMD87]

I am a novice powerlifter/bodybuilder and I've seen insulin abuse quite a bit. Quite stupid. Not many other drugs will kill you as fast as insulin.

 

[RxPreceptor]

This has been a growing trend for "bulking"...stupidity on a whole new level, some end up becoming diabetic from overeating (a **** ton) for drastic body weight differences (thinking most of said "gainzzz" is muscle). I believe most recent bodybuilder death involving insulin misuse was Dallas Mcarver (less than 30yo). Ridiculous. Unfortunately, I don't have such entertainment from stupidity; just the usual heroin addicts

 

[BidingMyTime]

Interesting, I never knew insulin didn't require a prescription until now. Just shows how often it happens I suppose, but then again I don't work retail.

FYI, it's only the old insulins like Novolin and Humulin (the even older insulins were also OTC, but they are no longer available in the US.) Anything newer is RX, (like the "logs", the daily insulins, etc)

 

[RxPreceptor]

I do have one regular yoyo; ends up having to take insulin chronically (does not appear type-2, not obese looking but fluctuates his weight greatly from bulking). Drug of choice is (bonk) HGH apparently; believing this combination is synergistic with insulin (believes HGH will prevent him from getting fat from insulin). Asks me why his abdomen is distended (he's got some minor "pregnant" bodybuilder syndrome going on from abusing a **** ton of drugs in combination with extreme bodyweight fluctuations). He feels compelled to show me half naked pics of him posing/selfie (ok bro, that's great, keep it to yourself & SO...><)

 

[lord999]

That's always been a thing as part of the bag of bulking tricks. The reason why human insulin was made OTC was that both Eli Lilly (that part that becomes Genentech) and ADA argued very successfully that the idiot potential was low but the problem potential for diabetics not having insulin is high.

It's why testosterone is C-III and albuterol is a legend, not because they aren't safe and nonaddictive, but they were abused all the time by athletes for bulking up and weight loss (boxers would slam 60-100 milligrams of albuterol tabs and lose 25-40 lbs fast).

 

[PharmDBro2017]

This has been a growing trend for "bulking"...stupidity on a whole new level, some end up becoming diabetic from overeating (a **** ton) for drastic body weight differences (thinking most of said "gainzzz" is muscle). I believe most recent bodybuilder death involving insulin misuse was Dallas Mcarver (less than 30yo). Ridiculous. Unfortunately, I don't have such entertainment from stupidity; just the usual heroin addicts

Source that Dallas died from a bad insulin shot? That is not what I read.

Also, OP they're free to use it as they please...don't get your panties in a wad about it. This article is garbage and based off a rumor ffs.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Source that Dallas died from a bad insulin shot? That is not what I read.

Also, OP they're free to use it as they please...don't get your panties in a wad about it. This article is garbage and based off a rumor ffs.

I just read the same. It's hard to narrow down what exactly killed him, other than an extremely unhealthy lifestyle.

 

[PetMed]

Interesting, I never knew insulin didn't require a prescription until now. Just shows how often it happens I suppose, but then again I don't work retail.

All Novolins, Humulins, etc are OTC therefore not requiring any prescription.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Source that Dallas died from a bad insulin shot? That is not what I read.

Also, OP they're free to use it as they please...don't get your panties in a wad about it. This article is garbage and based off a rumor ffs.

Oh, first it was "choking", then diuretics/dehydration, insulin use, then "genetic" heart condition...this is like always how these autopsies go for bodybuilders...they take waaay tooo much **** in general.

 

[TheTruckGuy]

That's always been a thing as part of the bag of bulking tricks. The reason why human insulin was made OTC was that both Eli Lilly (that part that becomes Genentech) and ADA argued very successfully that the idiot potential was low but the problem potential for diabetics not having insulin is high.

It's why testosterone is C-III and albuterol is a legend, not because they aren't safe and nonaddictive, but they were abused all the time by athletes for bulking up and weight loss (boxers would slam 60-100 milligrams of albuterol tabs and lose 25-40 lbs fast).

I had heard about clenbuterol before (apparently a variant of albuterol that's not used in humans), but never albuterol for weight loss. I didn't even know it existed in tablet form (I'm and MD, not pharmacist).

I hear the new kid on the block is actually SARMs (Selective androgen receptor modulators). But the only way to get it is via shady online companies that sell "research chemicals". Per this JAMA article you're probably not getting what you think you're getting - Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators Sold via the Internet.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Clenbuterol is often obtained illegitimately as a Vet med
SARMs selling companies have been regularly getting busted
Loophole (I believe this is being addressed by congress if not resolved already) - these were being marketed & sold as "Chemicals for research purposes only, not for human consumption"

 

[RNtoMD87]

Lots of friends of mine use or sell various SARMS

 

[PharmDBro2017]

SARM use is definitely high... it's the new "designer steroid" product, like pro-hormones were during 2000-2015. Very easy to get and most of them are oral from what I've seen.

And ya, never know what you're getting from the RC companies.

edit: RXVampire, ya I read that it was choking on some dry @$$ chicken. I find that more believeable than a bad insulin shot tbh... these guys are taking shots 6-8x insulin shots a day. Including the other gear, hell it could be 10-20 shots total a day. I'd assume one would be an expert by that point.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I had heard about clenbuterol before (apparently a variant of albuterol that's not used in humans), but never albuterol for weight loss. I didn't even know it existed in tablet form (I'm and MD, not pharmacist).

Albuterol tablets (and for that matter the solution) are seldom used these days, when they are used it, it it pretty much solely used in pediatrics. (I think I've only seen 1 order for oral albuterol in adults ever)

 

[RxPreceptor]

I don't know...I still find it hard to believe a 250+lb guy who's job is literally eating, sleeping, training, & doping (this is professional/elite level) choked to death. I find it more believable he F'ed up his insulin (too much) & choked because he could not eat enough in time (bro, stick to liquid sugary drinks, not dry chicken)

 

[RNtoMD87]

I don't know...I still find it hard to believe a 250+lb guy who's job is literally eating, sleeping, training, & doping (this is professional/elite level) choked to death. I find it more believable he F'ed up his insulin (too much) & choked because he could not eat enough in time (bro, stick to liquid sugary drinks, not dry chicken)

The autopsy results said that he had loads of organ damage, could have been anything that killed him.

Did an autopsy a few weeks ago on a 25 year old that died of cirrhosis. You can do a lot of damage to your body in a short time if you're stupid.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

I don't know...I still find it hard to believe a 250+lb guy who's job is literally eating, sleeping, training, & doping (this is professional/elite level) choked to death. I find it more believable he F'ed up his insulin (too much) & choked because he could not eat enough in time (bro, stick to liquid sugary drinks, not dry chicken)

We’re talking about a professional bodybuilder, one of the top 10 at the Mr. Olympia... these guys aren’t drinking sugary drinks. They are eating chicken and fish that was cooked 6 days ago and has been sitting in a Tupperware in their fridge, then microwave it again... idk if you’ve ever eaten something like this but it is very difficult to get down... easy to choke on imo.

In regards to the posts above on clen; clenbuterol has both a muscle sparing effect (even during a caloric deficit), as well as fat reduction via b2 agonism. Some evidence that it can induce muscle protein synthesis too. All in all, clen is quite the advantageous compound to use in bodybuilding and horse racing.

 

[uicgrad]

Albuterol tablets (and for that matter the solution) are seldom used these days, when they are used it, it it pretty much solely used in pediatrics. (I think I've only seen 1 order for oral albuterol in adults ever)

I've dispensed plenty of oral albuterol tablets in my pharmacy career to adults and geriatric patients. But I think it was prescribed by MDs who were educated in the 1960s. I consider it definitely antiquated prescribing. In peds, albuterol syrup prn for coughing used to be fairly popular with the Medicaid population until Medicaid stopped reimbursement for that.

 

[rph3664]

I've definitely heard of "diabulimia", where diabetics don't take their meds properly because being compliant makes them gain weight (because their bodies can now utilize their food, goofs!).

Is this done to reduce body fat?

 

[TheTruckGuy]

I've definitely heard of "diabulimia", where diabetics don't take their meds properly because being compliant makes them gain weight (because their bodies can now utilize their food, goofs!).

Is this done to reduce body fat?

Is what done to reduce body fat? The albuterol/clenbuterol they're talking about above? Or bodybuilders using insulin?

Albuterol/clen is to reduce bodyfat as someone mentioned above.

But the idea behind insulin is that it is an anabolic hormone. So if you combine it with a bunch of protein/sugar (and probably other hormones), you're almost forcefeeding your muscles everything they need to grow right after a workout.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Is what done to reduce body fat? The albuterol/clenbuterol they're talking about above? Or bodybuilders using insulin?

Albuterol/clen is to reduce bodyfat as someone mentioned above.

But the idea behind insulin is that it is an anabolic hormone. So if you combine it with a bunch of protein/sugar (and probably other hormones), you're almost forcefeeding your muscles everything they need to grow right after a workout.

Right. Insulin is THE most anabolic hormone, far greater than test even.