Insurmountable? Advice or creative ideas appreciated.

[Mondo]

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OK, I'm old. 38, to be precise. I have no undergrad, but with 20 years in IT, I have a pretty good job (90K) and work at home fulltime. I have a 4 and 1 year old, and my elderly mom is going to need to move in soon.

That being said, I've had it with technology. The constant layoffs, outsourcing, and since I've had kids - the lack of the human touch....

I graduated with a 4.3 from highschool, but for reason I don't care to get into, I went straight into the workforce. I did particularly well in math and science, which is one reason I think I'd really enjoy medicine. I have done well in IT because I have above average problem solving and analytical capabilities.

My husband is 43, is a type of engineer that in the last 5 years, has been commoditized..He typically works 5 or 6 months, then is unemployed a few months, then another contract, etc. I hold all the benefits, 401K, etc.

I am trying to think of some way I can fulfill the undergrad within a couple of years via some kind of online or after hours schooling aka Phoenix or Baker. Typically those programs only work for business and technology degrees, so am I just plain out of luck?

I don't see not working as an option, I have both my family to support and my mother. I do believe within 2 or 3 years my husband will have landed a permanent job - though I can expect it to make quite a bit less than I do. Thus, I still would need to work.

I'm feeling frustrated in that I'm at a dead end within my industry and I no longer have any passion for it. I'm ready to be challenged and make my way in another field - but I have responsibilities.

OK, sorry so long. Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[Orthodoc40]

OK, I'm old. 38, to be precise. I have no undergrad, but with 20 years in IT, I have a pretty good job (90K) and work at home fulltime. I have a 4 and 1 year old, and my elderly mom is going to need to move in soon.

That being said, I've had it with technology. The constant layoffs, outsourcing, and since I've had kids - the lack of the human touch....

I am trying to think of some way I can fulfill the undergrad within a couple of years via some kind of online or after hours schooling aka Phoenix or Baker. Typically those programs only work for business and technology degrees, so am I just plain out of luck?

I don't see not working as an option, I have both my family to support and my mother. I do believe within 2 or 3 years my husband will have landed a permanent job - though I can expect it to make quite a bit less than I do. Thus, I still would need to work.

So, are you thinking about medical school? Or just wondering about how to finish your degree while working? I started taking all my pre-reqs at age 36 and just went to a nearby university that offers lots of night and/or Saturday classes. Kept working full time. It was fun, actually. There's probably a school near your home or near where you work that offers decent classes and you could finish your degree fairly easily and fairly quickly, I would think.

 

[Mondo]

Yes, I've always been fascinated with medicine. I just never considered it as an option, and I loved what I did. Having kids has changed a lot about how I feel about things. I feel a lot more strongly about applying whatever I have to helping others in a more tangible way. In fact, I could possibly apply my technology know-how in the medical field. Thanks for responding. It's not going to be a cut-and-run situation for me, for sure.

So, are you thinking about medical school? Or just wondering about how to finish your degree while working? I started taking all my pre-reqs at age 36 and just went to a nearby university that offers lots of night and/or Saturday classes. Kept working full time. It was fun, actually. There's probably a school near your home or near where you work that offers decent classes and you could finish your degree fairly easily and fairly quickly, I would think.

 

[MeowMix]

I think you can find a way to do your prereqs, you can almost certainly get in somewhere (depending on how you put together your application and apply), and you could be a great doctor.

The big questions, in my mind, are how your family and your financial situation will adapt and survive. People get through med school with kids. People get through med school with parents who need care. But it can be a big strain on your finances and your family. The change from a $90K at-home job to $200,000 of debt and an 80-100 hour work week is enormous. Also, are you prepared to move across the country if the only med school you get into is a long, long way away? What about your family?

As you start to think about this, really be honest with yourself and your husband about everything that's involved. If you have the savings to cover the expenses, that's a big positive. But if you have to be working while you are taking prereqs and managing family responsibilities, then how will your family manage to cover your expenses in two years? What if your husband does not find that job; will you give up your dream in order to keep supporting your family? It will probably take at least 3 years of hard work and decreased income for you to get your undergrad degree (do not underestimate the amount of work required; you have been out of school for many years); how will you cover the expenses for that?

I do not intend to discourage you; I have just had several conversations with students and doctors in the past week, about the financial realities of med school and the fact that the golden years of huge income are largely over in many specialties. You can make a good living, but you may have to tailor your practice according to your debt load; are you OK with that decision?

good luck

 

[Mondo]

Meowmix, thanks for responding. Realistically, I pick up the kids at 4, and can't sit down till they are in bed at around 8pm. I doubt I have the health to be at it from 8-1am every night - but I do from 8 -10 or 10:30.

I'll continue my original plan of an online undergrad in technology from Baker (a fully accredited college). That will take (as you said) about 3 years. In that time frame I can probably take the necessarly science prereqs at UCSD right down the street from me. I should have sufficient vacation time since they are always during working hours.

If they won't accept a tech undergrad + required sciences onsite in their medical scientist program (the one I'm interested in), then we'll have to see if my family is willing to move. My oldest is in a very special German/Spanish/Chinese immersion school, my Mom has her doctors.... it's not all about me any more.

Thanks so much for that dose of reality. And, for what it's worth - I've made my way in technology by doing things that "educated" experts said couldn't be done. If I could do what I've been able to do (innovation) for corporate America, how much better if I could apply it to helping others? OK, off the soapbox and back to work.

Thank you again.

 

[medworm]

Seriously if I were in your shoes, I would concentrate my efforts on building a nest, supporting and spending time with the family. The odds are against you when you have that much family and financial responsibility.

I understand your desire to switch jobs and industry, but medicine is not the answer b/c the road is too long, too taxing, and too expensive. The reality is that the younger and "freer" you are, the better suited you are for medicine. After a certain "age", the economics and holistic outlook work against you. Please please consider other alternatives. You can't be that stubborn! 😉

Sorry, I'm not being a gunner -- just realistic. with your deliberations.

 

[Empress]

I would suggest some sort of quasi Dave Ramsay approach to this. You are the primary breadwinner for a family that has small children and an eldery parent, which means you need to save mad cash, and learn to cope with family needs.
Your husband has to be totally on board with whatever you decide to.

Also I would suggest attending a brick and mortar school as opposed to an online program. For prereqs you need to take science classes with labs, and there is always the chance that med schools won't accept your undergrad.

Break it down into a plan of years. Let's say 5 years. The first and second year start attending part-time classes while working full-time. Downsize your lifestyle drastically. Save a quarter of your gross income. By the third year your husband should have a full-time job. See if you can continue working your current job part-time or do a job share with another person who also wants to work part-time. Save all money from your job. Increase your class load. Fourth year continue along this way, and plan for your final year of school and applying to med school. By the fifth year completely end working and attend school full-time and preparing for the MCAT. The preceding years of saving and downsizing your income will have given you a little breathing room for when you stop working, as well as working part-time and part-time school helps teach balance.

Good luck. And you're not too old. 😉

 

[notdeadyet]

OK, I'm old. 38, to be precise.

That's not too old. It's on the higher end of the spectrum, but people in their late thirties get in to many schools.

That being said, I don't see a realistic way you can make yourself a strong candidate for medical school without your family making big changes and sacrifices.

Online or distance degrees are not going to cut it. You're already applying as an older nontrad from a field that isn't a logical progression to med school (applying as a 38 year old RN or PT is different from a 38 year old programmer). Assuming that you have a BA pretty much nailed and just need to do the one year of Bio/Phys/Chem/OChem, you still need one calendar year, full-time. And that's having NO life outside of school.

You can make it happen, but your husband being a nice breadwinner and providing a great amount of childcare will be a prerequisite.

 

[WantsThisBad]

Meowmix, thanks for responding. Realistically, I pick up the kids at 4, and can't sit down till they are in bed at around 8pm. I doubt I have the health to be at it from 8-1am every night - but I do from 8 -10 or 10:30.

I'll continue my original plan of an online undergrad in technology from Baker (a fully accredited college). That will take (as you said) about 3 years. In that time frame I can probably take the necessarly science prereqs at UCSD right down the street from me. I should have sufficient vacation time since they are always during working hours.

If they won't accept a tech undergrad + required sciences onsite in their medical scientist program (the one I'm interested in), then we'll have to see if my family is willing to move. My oldest is in a very special German/Spanish/Chinese immersion school, my Mom has her doctors.... it's not all about me any more.

Thanks so much for that dose of reality. And, for what it's worth - I've made my way in technology by doing things that "educated" experts said couldn't be done. If I could do what I've been able to do (innovation) for corporate America, how much better if I could apply it to helping others? OK, off the soapbox and back to work.

Thank you again.

This thread is great because it's situations like this that remind me that Im 20 and have a million options and can do whatever I put my mind to. I wish you the best of luck. It sounds like you have a lot of work and sacrafice ahead of you. If this is what you want then go for it!

 

[Sporky]

Personally, It appears that you are looking for a change and may be thinking that medicine will help fulfill something. This isn't bad, but will pose serious problems for you down the road if medicine is not in your deepest heart - for precisely the same reason you are frustrated now.

I am not a doctor yet, so any medical related advice I give should be discounted accordingly....but, my advisor and friend, started medicine at 36 after a career in engineering, (He's in his third year of a caridiology practise) and agrees with me that to begin something as demanding as medicine at our age (I recently celebrated the 2nd anniversary of my 20th birthday) you must feel as if this is your life's calling. Why do I say this?

In order for me to be successful in school (A or B), then I have to put aside everything except God and family. My original undergrad had zero science - (I went to a Bible college) so I had to start from scratch. In 1.5 years, I have completed all of my prereq's except Organic II and Histology or Genetics and will be applying to med school this fall. But to do this, I have had to quit everything I was involved in. You are most likely smarter than I, but you will still have to put away many things.

I cannot advise you on medicine, but I can advise you on family, and before you make this type of commitment, please ensure that everyone in your family, (including pets) understands that for the next (_____) years, your life will be radically different. To think otherwise is to kid onesself, and we don't get very far doing that.

Having said all that, if you really know that this is what you should be doing - DO IT! because if it is what you should be doing, you will be terrific at it.

🙂

 

[Mondo]

for all the thoughtful responses.

I do have a plan in place that doesn't require a longterm commitment. I can continue my Computer Science undergrad through Baker (online) which is fully accredited. And at the same time, I can *crash* UCSD science courses and gain full credit for them. This technically would fulfill the UCSD requirements for med school - though granted, it's an odd way to get there.

Either way, I am not trying to impress anyone, so if it's too nontraditional and I can't pursue medicine at that point, that's OK. I'll keep a little hope alive in the back of my mind, though. I did talk to someone who said that sometimes they view a situation like mine as a real opportunity to include diversity into their class - and therefore, the out-of-the-ordinary means of obtaining the qualifications may actually be a turn-on, just as easily as a turn-off.

Well, if I don't try, I'll never know. In the meantime, if my family suffers, I'll take a semester off. Being a working Mom already requires a lot of juggling and prioritizing. Of course, working in my pajamas helps a lot too 🙂

Thanks guys!

 

[Uncle_Tbag]

If you're looking to get into an MSTP an online U probably won't cut it. MSTPs are filled by the cream of the applicant crop; that means excellent grades at a brick and mortar college, plenty of research experience (an absolute must for mstp), and a generally stellar application.

 

[ZanMD]

From one IT pro to another, my suggestion to you is to try volunteering or working in the medical field in some aspect for a short time frame so you get a feel for what it entails. It's basically the same time demands as say, an executive. You will have very little time for much else. You're the Network guru, except you don't get to leave the server room for days in a row. You can be a little more flexible after your training is over, but the training itsself is not flexible. You wil not be able to hold down another job, or spend much (if any) time with your family of significance. You will see very little of your family during this time (which is at least 4 years med school + 3-7 residency training).

That being said, the question to ask yourself is "how bad do I want it?" if you want something bad enough, you must be willing to do whatever it takes. And so must your family.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

You wil not be able to hold down another job, or spend much (if any) time with your family of significance. You will see very little of your family during this time (which is at least 4 years med school + 3-7 residency training).

I find this really hard to believe. It's not like they lock you in the classrooms. Could you elaborate some more?

 

[Sartre79]

Personally, I'd stick out the 90K job and plan for retirement. At your age, there would be a lot of sacrifice. Plus, the debt you would take on at 45ish plus would take a huge chunk of your income well past med school and probably into your retirement age. If you love medicine, try a nursing degree or physical therapy, etc. I just don't think that an MD would be a wise choice, especially since you don't have a bacc, and have no idea how good you are at in the sciences. I currently work for Corp America and am trying to get in to school, but I'm only 26. If you are at a 90K level, why leave? Also, Corp Amer isn't about what you know, but how well you can play politics to some degree, which applies somewhat to medicine...just not as much as being able to pull grades and take tests. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Law2Doc]

I find this really hard to believe. It's not like they lock you in the classrooms. Could you elaborate some more?

While I think the prior poster overstated it a bit, the OP should realize that med school studying may, in fact, require more than the 2 hours a night (8-10) she is suggesting she can allocate. There are plenty of people that put in 3 times this and still struggle. And rotations and residency are not nearly as flexible -- If you need to be in the hospital for a long hours and some overnight, up to 80 hours per week, then that's just the way it is, and you and your family tough it out.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Right, the other thing is that you hadn't told us what your exposure is to medicine. You'll potentially also need to find time to either volunteer, or get a job in something like clinical research, or both. Possibly shadow a doctor, and/or a DO (an older applicant should really consider the DO option just because the age discrimination is less of an issue). Okay so - that's more than just classes.

Another thing to seriously consider is a PA program. It is only 2 years of school, and you'll start out making about what you are now. At least, around here you would.

 

[MeowMix]

Personally, I'd stick out the 90K job and plan for retirement. At your age, there would be a lot of sacrifice.

I think that, at 26, you have a very different perspective from those of us who are in med school at 40+ and fully expect to work hard and enjoy ourselves well into "retirement age," whatever that is. Many of us have made those sacrifices and are quite happy about it.

The thing that makes the OP's situation different from most is the combination of challenges: kids, parent, spouse not having predictable steady income, having to get undergrad degree first. People have overcome all of these, but it helps to set out on the path with a good idea of what you are facing.

Back to the OP: As far as diversity of life experience, they've already got lots of it at every school. I realized soon after starting med school that however unique I thought I was, I wasn't. You are unlikely to get any leeway in the diversity game unless you have an incredibly unusual background. Although the home pages for med school admissions are full of beautiful language about maturity and intelligence, as an older student your application will often be assessed based primarily on whether they think you can handle the academic workload and succeed, and that determination will generally be based on your past academic history. You need to take a bunch of hard courses and do very well.

This is particularly true if you want to apply to the very competitive MSTP (Medical Scientist Training Program) at any school. There is another trap for the older MSTP applicant: you are at a significant disadvantage because you are starting your research career so late. You would be trying to enter a profession that is based on writing grants, getting publications, and establishing a scholarly record. I won't say that it can't happen, but I think your chances would be slim. They are investing a lot of money in you; they want you to be an energetic, dynamic, work-168-hours-a-week researcher. When they say "diverse," what they mean is that they want you to be from a hopelessly poor but interesting background, relentlessly hardworking, and brilliant. (I do know someone who went into MSTP in her early 30s, but she had been an Olympic athlete and engineer with a degree from Stanford.)

 

[Mondo]

I get it, I get it. But aren't we ALL special, hmmmmm?

http://www.despair.com/individuality.html

Yes, I've been in corporate America a bit too long, I'd say.

Clearly, having been working at a fairly high level (most of my coworkers have masters or more) - I'm probably a little flippant about my own abilities as well as the work it will take. More than likely I'll end up being one of those hot shot high schoolers who can't make it through a hardcore science class.

Alas, I have a study into converting our global integration infrastructure into open source using web services technology due (why can't Sun publish samples with scripts that WORK and documentation that actually MATCHES?) , my husband's contract ended prematurely this week, the baby has hand and mouth virus, and there is a Barbie Nutracker DVD/beading project going on simultaneously.......the demands of today preclude my worrying to much about it... as I said before, I'll just stay the course since it's the best I can do at the moment, and see what the future brings.

I truly admire the singlemindedness you folks have, and now appreciate its necessity. I just can't join you. Best of luck to all!!

 

[cfdavid]

There are some excellent opportunities in the nursing pathway. You're in a good position to get a BS in nursing. Then, you could always do a more advanced nursing degree such as an NP or CRNA. Also, there's the PA route. But, the point is that this would be a much faster route out of IT, and perhaps more practical given your overall situation.

I understand the desire to become a physician (as do all of us, I'm sure), but I don't think that some of the other alternatives in healthcare are a bad choice at all. You'll still get to problem solve, work with some cool technology, and you'll have some good earning potential (especially if you decide to do an advanced degree).

The advantage to all this is 4 years of BS-RN, then two years extra for the NP and/or CRNA. Not sure about the various PA requirements.

Also, look into becoming an AA (anesthesia assistant). You'll need a Bachelors with lots of science pre-req's. Then it's a two year program. So, you need to contrast 6 years versus 4+4+3 (min.)= 11 years for the MD/DO route. That's a significant difference for someone in your situation.

That being said, it all depends on how bad you want to go MD/DO. But, not having the Bachelors makes it tough. You could do it, though. And perhaps others can offer you some better advice on how to juggle it all and provide some inspirational stories of their own.

Good luck. But, it definately sounds like it's time for a change. Just start putting a plan together, and you can lean on these boards for a lot of good info.

 

[prana_md]

I get it, I get it. But aren't we ALL special, hmmmmm?

http://www.despair.com/individuality.html

Yes, I've been in corporate America a bit too long, I'd say.

Clearly, having been working at a fairly high level (most of my coworkers have masters or more) - I'm probably a little flippant about my own abilities as well as the work it will take. More than likely I'll end up being one of those hot shot high schoolers who can't make it through a hardcore science class.

Alas, I have a study into converting our global integration infrastructure into open source using web services technology due (why can't Sun publish samples with scripts that WORK and documentation that actually MATCHES?)because that would be too easy, my husband's contract ended prematurely this week, the baby has hand and mouth virus, and there is a Barbie Nutracker DVD/beading project going on simultaneously.......the demands of today preclude my worrying to much about it... as I said before, I'll just stay the course since it's the best I can do at the moment, and see what the future brings.

I truly admire the singlemindedness you folks have, and now appreciate its necessity. I just can't join you. Best of luck to all!!

keep at it. you're going to get tons of advice from this thread. do whatever feels right and seems right at the time. there are way too may paths to this than can be conveyed in a single e-mail. what works is what works. that's meant on every level. good luck 😍

 

[Mondo]

I can't say nursing has ever appealed to me. I'm trying to research PA though. The qualifications for the program are similar to MD, but I don't think it's as hard to get into.

I did a search on Monster to try to find out what demands there are for it, as well as payscale. Didn't find much. I'll look down that route.
Thks.

 

[Orthodoc40]

I can't say nursing has ever appealed to me. I'm trying to research PA though. The qualifications for the program are similar to MD, but I don't think it's as hard to get into.

I did a search on Monster to try to find out what demands there are for it, as well as payscale. Didn't find much. I'll look down that route.
Thks.

Here's the link you need: http://www.aapa.org/

And their link to PA programs: http://www.aapa.org/pgmlist.php3

There are 10 programs in CA alone. A lot of programs will want you to have had patient contact. Some want you to have had many hours of it. But not all programs will. Many programs are competitive (around Massachusetts, it is anyway). But it is a really reasonable alternative, I think. If you're dying to be a physician, it can be done - don't be discouraged!
But research the PA thing, and see if it feels like a path you'd find more to your liking.

 

[ZanMD]

I find this really hard to believe. It's not like they lock you in the classrooms. Could you elaborate some more?

you're right they dont. But it's such a large volume of information to swallow that you won't have a lot of time for much else. Also, when you're in residency you will have 80 hour work weeks. Residency is 3-7 years. It IS doable- even with a family. But there will be periods of time where you don't see them much. You have to be willing to make sacrificies basically. But I'm not trying to dissuade you, just paint a realistic picture of what it entails. Don't take my word for it. Check around and find out for yourself.

Make sure you consider all your options.

 

[Mondo]

making a residency 80 hours/week...

I mean, what exactly do you gain by doing this? If it's to see how long you can go without sleep - heck, anyone who's had kids already knows that.......

I've worked those kind of hours many times, usually under some set-in-stone production deadline - the kind that loses millions of dollars if you miss it.

On the Dr. end..... I don't see the necessity. Can you explain?

 

[Mondo]

I'll check it out. On first glance, the next 3 years for me would be the same regardless (online courses combined with brick & mortar UCSD science courses). So it's a great plan for if I'm too tired or circumstances haven't gotten better by the end of those three years.

I'm mainly concerned I'd end up in *only* a caretaker role, rather than a critical analysis role COMBINED with caretaking (which is what I'm after).

Thanks.

 

[albaniandoc]

Mondo.
I have been a nurse for three years and I really like the job. Nursing is no longer feeding the patients like Florence Nightingale. ICU and PACU nurses are very skilled (so are the other ones, but I am talking about more independence and critical skills). My career has been extremely rewarding so far. In my class the average age was 42 and we had several IT people that were switching jobs. I think you will find that you might fit better in an enviroment like that rather than with snotty 23 year olds that have never worked a day in their life. Besides, nursing gives you the opportunity to work in many fields, and you can continue your degree all the way to PhD. An example would be an LPN program that lasts for 10-12 months. It transfers to an RN program that lasts for another 12 months (in the mean time you can work as a nurse). As an RN you can work on the BSN which lasts another 12-18 months. From BSN you can either do nurse anesthesia (income ~150K) which is another 27 month program or Nurse practitioner which is also two years. All this time you could be working weekends or nights and make a decent living and going to school. The unfortunate thing with medicine is that it is very intense and you cannot work, that means no good health insurance, no 401K no income. Not to mention the income potential in 6 years. If you make 90K/yr x 6 yrs= 540K, That's 1/2 million dollars, not to mention debt. You will be about 700K less if you take the MD route.
Just thinking through this logically. Plus you really need to have some exposure. Either shadow a physician or a nurse and see what they do in their daily practice.
Good luck to you on whatever you decide.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Mondo.
I have been a nurse for three years and I really like the job. Nursing is no longer feeding the patients like Florence Nightingale. ICU and PACU nurses are very skilled (so are the other ones, but I am talking about more independence and critical skills). My career has been extremely rewarding so far. In my class the average age was 42 and we had several IT people that were switching jobs. I think you will find that you might fit better in an enviroment like that rather than with snotty 23 year olds that have never worked a day in their life. Besides, nursing gives you the opportunity to work in many fields, and you can continue your degree all the way to PhD. An example would be an LPN program that lasts for 10-12 months. It transfers to an RN program that lasts for another 12 months (in the mean time you can work as a nurse). As an RN you can work on the BSN which lasts another 12-18 months. From BSN you can either do nurse anesthesia (income ~150K) which is another 27 month program or Nurse practitioner which is also two years. All this time you could be working weekends or nights and make a decent living and going to school. The unfortunate thing with medicine is that it is very intense and you cannot work, that means no good health insurance, no 401K no income. Not to mention the income potential in 6 years.
Good luck to you on whatever you decide.

This is another very good idea, actually! After the LPN program, you're working again. And working at a hospital, you will often get some serious deals on tuition being paid for to continue on the path onmywayRN has described above.

 

[Law2Doc]

making a residency 80 hours/week...

I mean, what exactly do you gain by doing this? If it's to see how long you can go without sleep - heck, anyone who's had kids already knows that.......

I've worked those kind of hours many times, usually under some set-in-stone production deadline - the kind that loses millions of dollars if you miss it.

On the Dr. end..... I don't see the necessity. Can you explain?

Just to clarify, a law was recently passed LIMITING residency hours to 80 hours per week. It used to be higher, particularly in the surgical specialties. This is a good thing for those yet to do residency, and regarded as pretty cushy by our predecessors who worked 100.
As for the necessity -- Several reasons: (1) there is some sentiment that patients get better care if they have the continuity of the same doctor over a longer period of time. (2) There is also the point that you can only learn things if you are around and see lots of procedures happening. The old -- see one, do one, teach one. It only works if you are around the see one. (3) There is a ton to learn, and more than you can learn in the 3-5 years of residency you have. Rather than have residencies last, say, 5-7 years, with more modest hours, the profession has chosen 3-5 years with longer ones. I personally like the shorter number of years with the longer days.

 

[cfdavid]

making a residency 80 hours/week...

I mean, what exactly do you gain by doing this? If it's to see how long you can go without sleep - heck, anyone who's had kids already knows that.......

I've worked those kind of hours many times, usually under some set-in-stone production deadline - the kind that loses millions of dollars if you miss it.

?

That's where many of us non-trads have an advantage. Anyone with any reasonable amount of responsibility in the business world knows how to operate in a fast-pace, high stakes, ambiguous environment. And, depending on the industry, long hours are not uncommon out there.

I'm not saying I've put in too many 80 hour weeks, and certainly not for prolonged periods of time, but I have put the time in under stressful circumstances, as I'm sure many of you guys/gals have as well.

As for the lack of sleep thing, I think it's kind of stupid given the indisputable research pointing to sleep deprivation being comparable to alcohol intoxication etc.... Kind of crazy.

 

[Mondo]

How is your family going to handle that? How old are your kids? I must admit, having talked to my husband the last 2 days or so since I've been considering this... I wasn't prepared for what I got.

If it's too personal, my apologies.

 

[Mondo]

Thank you. I will duly research the nursing levels, as well as PA. I do believe I need to find out about this "shadowing" thing. It may give me a better feel for what I like, as well as if I can even handle the environment.

 

[njbmd]

That's where many of us non-trads have an advantage. Anyone with any reasonable amount of responsibility in the business world knows how to operate in a fast-pace, high stakes, ambiguous environment. And, depending on the industry, long hours are not uncommon out there.

I'm not saying I've put in too many 80 hour weeks, and certainly not for prolonged periods of time, but I have put the time in under stressful circumstances, as I'm sure many of you guys/gals have as well.

As for the lack of sleep thing, I think it's kind of stupid given the indisputable research pointing to sleep deprivation being comparable to alcohol intoxication etc.... Kind of crazy.

Hi there,
As one of those folks who regularly puts in 80-hour weeks (I am a senior General Surgery resident), I can tell you that you get used to working and living without sleep. Research has proven that as you age, you need less sleep anyway.

When I am done with residency and fellowship, I will likely put in far more than 80 hours getting my practice up and going. I actually routinely put in 60-70 hours per week during my first and second years of medical school so residency was not much of a stretch.

The good thing is that I put in up to 80 hours a week doing something that I totally enjoy. My work is a blast daily and I love taking care of my patients. I could easily have stayed in my former profession and worked around 40 hours per week but that was not for me.

njbmd 🙂

Ah! the chopper is landing and the smell of helo fuel is in the air. I just love the Fourth of July holiday and Trauma!!

 

[Orthodoc40]

That's where many of us non-trads have an advantage. Anyone with any reasonable amount of responsibility in the business world knows how to operate in a fast-pace, high stakes, ambiguous environment. And, depending on the industry, long hours are not uncommon out there.

I'm not saying I've put in too many 80 hour weeks, and certainly not for prolonged periods of time, but I have put the time in under stressful circumstances, as I'm sure many of you guys/gals have as well.

As for the lack of sleep thing, I think it's kind of stupid given the indisputable research pointing to sleep deprivation being comparable to alcohol intoxication etc.... Kind of crazy.

My orthopedist told me they had 4 hrs off every other day during their residency! (One of the top ortho residencies out there, during the early 90's.)
They LOVED it!

One of the things about surgery is you need to have practice so if you only saw say, one hip replacement in 5 years, you're not exactly going to be ready to go out on your own and do hip replacements, are you?? Being there for many hours gives you more experience that you need to have.

 

[Orthodoc40]

How is your family going to handle that? How old are your kids? I must admit, having talked to my husband the last 2 days or so since I've been considering this... I wasn't prepared for what I got.

If it's too personal, my apologies.

I think that's why most people do this on the earlier side of life. Unlike us old fogeys. Then again, if you're an old fogey without a husband or kids...

 

[Law2Doc]

Then again, if you're an old fogey without a husband or kids...

I'm not sure telling her to ditch her spouse and kids for medicine is the advice she was seeking. 🙄

 

[Orthodoc40]

I'm not sure telling her to ditch her spouse and kids for medicine is the advice she was seeking. 🙄

Whoops!
That wasn't what I meant!

 

[Mondo]

No, no, I get it LOL.

I was up at 5:50 am with my morning bird baby, my oldest is a night owl. I really can't win on the sleep thing, no matter what I do.

To some extent, keeping my old job and working at home was a huge concession for my kids' sake. I typically work very early hours, my husband later. So they are only gone 6-7 hours at most with a friend, and we still have lots of family time.

So the 80 hour week doesn't scare me personally, but I am not sure I'd undertake it with my kids so young (that's what I get for waiting till 30 to marry, 35 to have kids). Unless my husband weren't working - and that isn't going to happen - he spends every waking minute between gigs looking for new ones... And, since I make good $$ now, he doesn't *get* at all, why I'm even interested in jumping ship. Of all people, he should. His inability to find permanent work is a direct result of the Electronics engineering market being practically wholely outsourced to Asia. My field has been nearly practically wholely outsourced to India. (some weird entrepreneurial part of me says I should learn Hindi and go THERE. Baliwood, anyone? It's like the 80s all over again!!)

Looking at the PA program, the main difference in requrements IS the residency. I have a friend or two in town who are Dr.'s. I do wonder if there is even an OPTION to slow down the residency. If not, I doubt I would be willing to what would amount (to me) - abandon - my kids.

I lost my father (cancer) when he was only 42 and having had worked usually 2 jobs, which is one reason I'm hesitant to ever take that much time away from my kids. If something happens to me, they will have had the absolute most they could get, considering our circumstances.

On the other hand, it is only 2-3 years....in the big scheme of things......

Frankly, it doesn't appear that anyone would want me, anyway (medical schools) since I'll be a CompSci undergrad from Michigan - meaning if anyone puts 2 and 2 together they'll realize it's an online degree (supplemented with *real* science classes). So I guess it will make my choices easier when everyone turns me down 🙂

Of course, I LOOK 25 (BWAHAHAHAHHAHA), but unfortunately, the numbers don't lie... It hurts, I tell ya.....

 

[1Path]

OK, I'm old. 38, to be precise. I have no undergrad, but with 20 years in IT, I have a pretty good job (90K) and work at home fulltime. I have a 4 and 1 year old, and my elderly mom is going to need to move in soon.

1) I'm 39 and I'm not old. 🙂

2) My hubby, also an engineer in IT, is a private contractor/entrepreneur that works with the feds/homeland security. Translation = no worries with outsourcing sensitive gov't info. IMHO, private contracting in IT with the feds is the ONLY way to go but he'll need to be able to secure a top level security clearance to make this work.

3) I waited until my daugher was older before seriously pursuing med school. She's 9 and at a great age for me to do what I need to do now. Honestly, she doesn't miss me too much when I have to study because I do a good job of incoporating her into whatever I have to do. For example, I take her with me to the library when I have to go a night with plently of snacks and things to do. I also take her with me on my volunteer activites at a breast care center. She was a real trooper at the Race for the Cure and I've taken her to meetings as well.

4) I also lost my dad to cancer but his death has only stregthened my resolve to complete med school and become a cancer researcher.

5) If you have a good GPA and MCAT(along with a strong package/interviews) someone will admit you no matter how old you are.

6) I'm going into pathology one day, so the 80 hour work week doesn't really phase me much beyond 3rd year of med school which may require more hours and a surgical path rotation in residency. And like you said, as a working Mom, I've already "been there, done that"!!

7)I'm currently taking a couse with med students and including class/lab time and studying, this is a 70 hour/week venture! 😱 Still, I spend some quality time with my family but do NO cooking during the week and very little cleaning. We now know we'll need a housekeeper and an account at the local Whole Foods Market to make this work!

Best of luck!!!

 

[1Path]

One final thing about the elderly parent. I did that too while I was in grad school and it really hurt my grades (I still managed a 3.7). It was my advisor that flat out told me that I would need to place my Dad in a nursing home (he was a stroke victum at that time). I didn't have to do that (he went to stay with his sister) so I could finish grad school but when he was a stricken with cancer a year later, I did decide to pass up an acceptance to med school to keep him out of a nursing home again. And I'm so glad I did since he died 2 years later.

I don't mean to sound discouraing, but doing everything you propose to do at the same time is going to be pretty tough. It may be better to at least wait until your kids in elementary school.

 

[Mondo]

No, that's the kind of thing I need to hear, actually. I tend to bite off more than I can chew. Years ago, I'd just chew harder and longer LOL - being overly ambitious worked to my advantage. Nowadays, not so much. SOMEONE suffers.

I'm truly glad you had that time with your father, for both you and your kids' sakes. My Mom isn't in that poor of health. She has had a mental nervous breakdown, and is in a LOT of pain. Just had surgery Friday though. Things *may* improve on that front. We'll see.

No, my finishing up my undergrad will synch with my youngest going into K. Until then, this is all pie in the sky. So, first things first. I've arranged to start school (online) next week, and plan to go CLEP'ing tonight at Barnes & Noble. No way I want to take "Intro to Spreadsheets" or "Intro to Programming" (It's Computer Sci). Also Algebra - I was a whiz at it - no reason I can't brush up and place out. It looks like I can place out of a good portion of the lower level stuff. So, I'm on my (very very very very long) way. I keep thinking of Shrek - Are we there yet? DONKEY, we're going to Far, Far......away!

I also need a primer in the various flavors of medicine. Since I'd never considered this till very recently, I am not up todate on all the nuances. Heck, I just had to look up "pathology" to make sure I knew what it meant!

By the way, my DHs mom died prematurely from cancer too. If I could pick one thing to combat - it would be cancer. GO GET 'EM.

 

[Orthodoc40]

I'm curious why you couldn't take the premed prereq's as part of finishing your undergrad degree? Would that sorta 'kill 2 birds w/1 stone'??

 

[Orthodoc40]

1) I'm 39 and I'm not old. 🙂

5) If you have a good GPA and MCAT(along with a strong package/interviews) someone will admit you no matter how old you are.

6) I'm going into pathology one day, so the 80 hour work week doesn't really phase me much beyond 3rd year of med school which may require more hours and a surgical path rotation in residency. And like you said, as a working Mom, I've already "been there, done that"!!

Best of luck!!!

Especially the MCAT. Plenty of people w/lower GPA's and high MCAT's get in. Far less get in that have high GPA's and low MCAT's.

And DO schools will be less age discriminating.

BTW - I've a friend that is doing a clinical pathology residency right now. Maybe it depends on the type of pathology you're doing but she hasn't had anything like a surgical path rotation. Though she says the blood bank rotation is pretty close to hell.

 

[Law2Doc]

some weird entrepreneurial part of me says I should learn Hindi and go THERE. Baliwood, anyone? It's like the 80s all over again!!.

Actually english is one of the official languages of india and the one most frequently used in business. You're good to go. 🙂

 

[Mondo]

I can pursue my Comp Sci online. The premed science prereqs will have to be done at a *regular* school. I found I can crash the UCSD ones down the street and get full credit. This is doubly good for me since I can take them one evening/week and get the heck out of my house (I work at home, and between that and my 2 little ones I'm home WAYYY too much!)

It's a time constraint issue for me.

My brother in law is getting his second masters in Industrial Engineering at this school (Baker.edu) - and is very impressed. Since he was a full scholarship student at Rice (he's extremely bright, to say the least) - I trust his opinion. I realize online schools aren't thought of highly here - but among my industry and apparently his (IT and engineering) - it is.