I'm very fortunate to be accepted to my state school and was wondering if you guys consider an integrated MD/MPH program to be worth it. I think in the future I would like to do community outreach of sorts or perhaps healthcare administration. Is it worth losing the summers? I was told it doesn't interfere with coursework in med school does anyone have any idea if that's true? Do you think I would be better off just doing clinical research instead? Thanks so much I really appreciate any input you guys can give me.
Integrated MD/MPH Is it worth it? Is the Coursework overwhelming?
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I was considering doing this...The field I want to specalize in is preventive medicine. I looked into some of the preventive medicine programs, and the ones I've seen all have getting a MPH as part of the program in your 2nd or 3rd PGY. AND they pay your tuition. I'm definitely not doing it through my school because of that full-ride reason alone.
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I want to start this post with a disclaimer: I'm finishing my 1st year and I have not done an MPH. I am simply reiterating advice given to me by my mentor/faculty adviser.
In essence, I'm very interested in quality improvement work in the hospital -- ultimately I'd like to do quality / outcomes research. I noticed several of the physicians (including my mentor) had MPH degrees, so I asked him about doing an integrated MPH (my school allows med students to add on at any time and offers it as a single year either between 2nd and 3rd or 3rd and 4th year.
I was advised by my mentor not to do it. He stated that for my area of interest especially, there are multiple fellowship programs out there which allow you to not only get your MPH but also complete focused research in a particular area of interest; in addition, you get paid for the duration of the fellowship. He did his MPH this way and stated that it was a much better option than doing the MPH during medical school (especially given the financial considerations).
YMMV. I don't know about the availability of fellowships depending on your particular interest (though there seem to be a lot of fellowships available for a variety of MPH fields). That said, the "you could get paid to do this" argument was very convincing for me.
EDIT: I barely glanced at MrCheetah's response before I replied to the OP -- whoops. Looks like he just put together a much more succinct version of what I was trying to say.
Sorry to rebump my thread so quick, but don't salaries for fellowships hover around the range of the salary you get in residency? Further, wouldn't the year saved be worth it opportunity cost wise (mph costing 15k extra). Thanks again for your input guys.
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The year of opportunity cost is only saved if you can get your MD/MPH in a total of 4 years rather than 5.
And as far as I know, there are no MPH programs that are integrated with residency in EM.
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5 LETTERS 4 YEARS!
Sounds awesome right? Another degree? I get to put those on my CV, I get to put those on my White coat. I get respect, I set myself apart from every other "just doctor." And cmon, how hard can public health work be? Im in medical school afterall! The cost? Well I'm already at 200,000 dollars, what's another 30?
Sounds like you? Thats the way just about everyone I knew first year who started the MD/MPH felt. Only about 3 of them had an interest in international travel or primary care. Most people did it because they thought it would be easy and give them an advantage.
Wrong.
Of the 20 people I knew who did an MPH while at medical school 18 regretted it. The coursework was easy, but mandatory. It stole time away from important things. They didn't care about public health. They were going to be neurologists, ID-peds, urologists. The administration knowledge they thought they'd get is found in business school, not in health system management MPH. At my graduation they got to walk around with a gold cord around their neck. The running joke: "Howd you get that cord?" reply: "30,000 dollars." That was the benefit.
Unless you are doing something immediately pertaining to public health (primary care IM, General Pediatrics, family medicine, intending to do mission work in the 3rd world) getting a public health degree does diddly squat. You don't learn as much as you want to, you spend more time than you want to, and it barely makes a dent in interview / selection for residency.
If you do one, and have an interest in research, i suppose epi is the only thing that might be useful. But then, you could just audit an undergrad statistics course and learn the same thing...
Thankfully, I opted NOT to do an MPH
Sounds awesome right? Another degree? I get to put those on my CV, I get to put those on my White coat. I get respect, I set myself apart from every other "just doctor." And cmon, how hard can public health work be? Im in medical school afterall! The cost? Well I'm already at 200,000 dollars, what's another 30?
Sounds like you? Thats the way just about everyone I knew first year who started the MD/MPH felt. Only about 3 of them had an interest in international travel or primary care. Most people did it because they thought it would be easy and give them an advantage.
Wrong.
Of the 20 people I knew who did an MPH while at medical school 18 regretted it. The coursework was easy, but mandatory. It stole time away from important things. They didn't care about public health. They were going to be neurologists, ID-peds, urologists. The administration knowledge they thought they'd get is found in business school, not in health system management MPH. At my graduation they got to walk around with a gold cord around their neck. The running joke: "Howd you get that cord?" reply: "30,000 dollars." That was the benefit.
Unless you are doing something immediately pertaining to public health (primary care IM, General Pediatrics, family medicine, intending to do mission work in the 3rd world) getting a public health degree does diddly squat. You don't learn as much as you want to, you spend more time than you want to, and it barely makes a dent in interview / selection for residency.
If you do one, and have an interest in research, i suppose epi is the only thing that might be useful. But then, you could just audit an undergrad statistics course and learn the same thing...
Thankfully, I opted NOT to do an MPH
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There's usually a 2-5k rise (general, not actual, and it varies) each year. Fellowship sometimes gets a little more bump from PGY3 (Resident) to PGY4 (fellow).
Jesus, if you get 5 letters in 5 years (taking a gap year to do an MPH for any reason other than you failed step 1 is foolish) that is TOTALLY not worth it. Do an MBA if you're going to take a year off...
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If youre talking about health systems, quality improvement, outcome research, its a General Internal Medicine Fellowship. Intended for Internal Medicine graduates, ANYBODY can do it. They train you on how to get grants, set up research, etc. There are programs that also teach curriculum development, how to teach, etc. Programs are 1 year to 3 years, depending on what you want. I think of it as a "medical Education" fellowship, but its far more than that.
For "quality improvement research" i can't imagine you need more than a mentor to get you started. But if you want that added "degree" medical education fellowship
You guys are awesome; thanks for the super informative posts, that answered my questions. I think my time would be better spent doing research in the summers to enhance my application. Thanks a ton!
FYI its a 4 year plan for those unsure.
FYI its a 4 year plan for those unsure.
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Are you interested in thinking about things from a quantitative perspective? Are you wanting to be a critical thinker about medical literature? If the answer is yes, do the MPH now.
If you want it as a career stepping stone, hold off.
Also, at my school the MD/MPH kids generally get their MPH year paid for. If you don't have a pure MPH year and rather just have 4 years, I would consider just getting it done (even if it cost a little extra $). A MPH on top of a MD wouldn't add much in the ways of opening doors, but it would give you extra skills. Do you NEED those skills to do what you want to do?
If you want it as a career stepping stone, hold off.
Also, at my school the MD/MPH kids generally get their MPH year paid for. If you don't have a pure MPH year and rather just have 4 years, I would consider just getting it done (even if it cost a little extra $). A MPH on top of a MD wouldn't add much in the ways of opening doors, but it would give you extra skills. Do you NEED those skills to do what you want to do?
I would want it more as a steppingstone, but I think ill need.my summers for sanity purposes.
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I'm curious, what medical literature are you referring to? Is it clinical and/or basic science literature or literature pertaining to health policy, international health, etc, kind of topics?
If it's the former, based on a cursory look at the curricula at several MPH programs, I'm not convinced that the MPH route is the way to go. If you're interested in conducting clinical research, as in running clinical trials, etc, it seems like pursuing a year-long clinical research fellowship (such as the Doris Duke) would be better. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on that, since I'm heavily interested in an academic career (not entirely sure if I want to focus on basic science research or clinical research since I haven't had any clinical research experience yet) and am considering applying for clinical research fellowships (if I end up deciding on the clinical research pathway) between M3 and M4.
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speaking as someone who did the MPH before med school i'd say that it was an excellent experience that provided many opportunities and a great knowledge base for reading literature and doing high end research and statistical analysis...
however, i would advise you be wary of the combined degrees, especially at schools that do not have a designated school of public health (like downstate) ...the programs tend to be thrown together and taught by MDs who just happen to have picked up an MPH along the way instead of PhDs who are the leaders of their field (at least that's how it is at another SUNY that shall remain nameless 😉). I did my MPH at a top 10 public health school and it was an excellent experience inside and outside of the classroom and hands down the best two years of my life.
If you have a real interest in the degree I would suggest you hold off on it until residency (or beyond) and if you still want it you can do a 1 year program at one of the top public health schools but trying to cram it in at downstate would, in my view, be a mistake since it will add more work to an already overflowing schedule and will rob u of your summer when you should be regaining your sanity, relaxing, and building your resume without giving you enough of a return on your investment to make it worthwhile.
however, i would advise you be wary of the combined degrees, especially at schools that do not have a designated school of public health (like downstate) ...the programs tend to be thrown together and taught by MDs who just happen to have picked up an MPH along the way instead of PhDs who are the leaders of their field (at least that's how it is at another SUNY that shall remain nameless 😉). I did my MPH at a top 10 public health school and it was an excellent experience inside and outside of the classroom and hands down the best two years of my life.
If you have a real interest in the degree I would suggest you hold off on it until residency (or beyond) and if you still want it you can do a 1 year program at one of the top public health schools but trying to cram it in at downstate would, in my view, be a mistake since it will add more work to an already overflowing schedule and will rob u of your summer when you should be regaining your sanity, relaxing, and building your resume without giving you enough of a return on your investment to make it worthwhile.
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Not all residencies will allow you to do this though correct? For example, one couldn't go into a derm residency and take a year to get an MPH as well right?
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no clue but my guess is that it's really on a case by case basis and you can't make generalizations by specialty
not sure why you mention derm in particular
Thanks, skin I appreciate your input. I'm gonna hold off on the MPH and use my summers to relax, do research, or whatnot.
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I'm doing a combined MD/MPH program and my MPH year starts this August, between my 3rd and 4th years of medical school. Yes, it is going to be more money, but there are many research opportunities within the Public Health school that can help me pay. And actually, it is not taking away my summer at all, it is giving me more free time. I have more time to take Step 2 this summer while most of my classmates have to study for it during their fourth year clinicals. Also, I will have extra time to perfect my residency applications etc and don't feel rushed in any decision making. The only disclaimer I have is that my fiance is a year behind me, and it will match us up for residency applications so that played a role in my decision. Also, I am going into General Pediatrics and am very interested in community health/preventative medicine.
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Figured they were a field not traditionally associated with Public Health.
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During my interview at the school where I ultimately decided to attend, the subject of an MPH with regard to clinical research was discussed extensively with both my interviewers, both of whom had their MPH. The general consensus about Doris Duke among these 2 clinicians was that it's primarily you being tossed into a lab and helping out with a clinical research project for a year, and that while not a useless experience by any means, that the actual didactic coursework component of DD was not substantial enough to teach you the kinds of statistical analysis, grant writing, and regulatory knowledge that are necessary if you actually want to be running a lab in the future. In summary, DD was good if you wanted to be involved with research, but not if you wanted to be a leader in research and run a lab, or even instigate your own project within a lab. The MPH, which has a flexible curriculum (at least where I'm headed) can be tuned to be focused primarily on research elements rather than international public health things, which I'm less interested in.
However, if someone with actual Doris Duke experience could chime in, that would be really awesome.
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