Intelligence Vs. Hard work

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Techmed07

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This thread has been dying to be posted, if you had to pick one or the other which one would it be.



- My choice: Hardwork, maybe this is because I do not see myself as too intelligent and hardwork is what I depend on. But I do wonder sometimes how it would be to be a savant...
 
definitely intelligence. i think it'd be much more useful and time saving to just get things the first time
 
Intelligence. The potential is there. Work ethic can be developed.

Similar to the "Can't teach height" idea that basketball recruiters have.
 
Without a doubt - intelligence. I have known plenty of people who work hard and are dedicated but just are not cut out for medicine. I have also known plenty of people who are intellegent but lazy and get into school.
 
Techmed07 said:
This thread has been dying to be posted, if you had to pick one or the other which one would it be.
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Do you mean which quality would we prefer to have or which is more important to success? I would prefer to be intelligent. Intelligence along with a moderate amount of work can lead to success in a lot of fields, seemingly including medicine. Having to work constantly to keep up in your field sounds like a sucky way to live. That being said, if all you have is one or the other you will probably fail anyway.
 
to get into med school, all you need is intelligence. my roommate only played video games all day long and maintained a 3.3GPA, but still got into an MD program. he is really smart (though lazy), and knows how to play the med school admissions game very well.
 
I think that to be successful in medicine you need both intelligence and a good work ethic. So I would quarrel with the question that you posed since it does not lead to a useful answer.
 
HoboCommander said:
to get into med school, all you need is intelligence. my roommate only played video games all day long and maintained a 3.3GPA, but still got into an MD program. he is really smart (though lazy), and knows how to play the med school admissions game very well.
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But to STAY in med school, he will need hard work. A surgeon can teach a monkey how to operate, but he can't teach your roommate how to handle a large patient load efficiently. In 3rd year, the smart-but-lazy students don't do well. The person who does the best on the rotation is not necessarily the person who is the smartest.

If your roommate wants to stay in med school, he'll need to learn a work ethic.
 
This is silly. It's like asking: which is better in medical school eyes or ears? You're gonna need both (caveat: before I get some idiots telling me about the blind and the deaf in medical school . . . I KNOW - worked with a blind resident and that's not a euphemism, he had a dog, nice doggie . . .)

Most of those in medical school are bright, smarter than average, but MOSTLY they work hard. VERY FEW real geniuses in medicine - you'll have a handful in every class and they will hand you your a$$ 1st and 2nd year on every exam. That's medical school. A 3rd year who works hard will run PWNAGE all over the lazy genius. You can make it through medical school without being a genius, but NEVER without hard work.

There you go . . .
 
jdh71 said:
This is silly. It's like asking: which is better in medical school eyes or ears? You're gonna need both (caveat: before I get some idiots telling me about the blind and the deaf in medical school . . . I KNOW - worked with a blind resident and that's not a euphemism, he had a dog, nice doggie . . .)

Most of those in medical school are bright, smarter than average, but MOSTLY they work hard. VERY FEW real geniuses in medicine - you'll have a handful in every class and they will hand you your a$$ 1st and 2nd year on every exam. That's medical school. A 3rd year who works hard will run PWNAGE all over the lazy genius. You can make it through medical school without being a genius, but NEVER without hard work.

There you go . . .
Click to expand...

I know who you are, that blind resident is my neighbor. See you at work tomorrow.
 
The one thing undergrad has taught me, and I assume this is even more relevant in medical school, is that its not longer acceptable to be just intelligent. If you aren't actively using your intelligence and working hard then being intelligent doesn't really count for much.

Like others have said though, I would rather be naturally gifted in my brain power than a natural hardworker (if this is even possible, who is born with a work ethic?). The latter is completely up to the individual and within certainly limits can compensate for the former, which is probably partly (maybe substantially?) genetically predetermined.
 
Drogba said:
The one thing undergrad has taught me, and I assume this is even more relevant in medical school, is that its not longer acceptable to be just intelligent. If you aren't actively using your intelligence and working hard then being intelligent doesn't really count for much.
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I agree with this... I think we're all reaching points in our lives where what we CAN do is becoming less important than what we HAVE done. I have a 3.4 GPA but do well on aptitude tests (35 MCAT), and I'm finally starting to realize you can't accomplish much without hard work (as hard as I may try). Just look at the physicians who publish in academic medicine -- they're extremely intelligent but they have to work hard in order to have their ideas and experiments come to fruition.
 
jdh71 said:
This is silly. It's like asking: which is better in medical school eyes or ears? You're gonna need both (caveat: before I get some idiots telling me about the blind and the deaf in medical school . . . I KNOW - worked with a blind resident and that's not a euphemism, he had a dog, nice doggie . . .)

Most of those in medical school are bright, smarter than average, but MOSTLY they work hard. VERY FEW real geniuses in medicine - you'll have a handful in every class and they will hand you your a$$ 1st and 2nd year on every exam. That's medical school. A 3rd year who works hard will run PWNAGE all over the lazy genius. You can make it through medical school without being a genius, but NEVER without hard work.

There you go . . .
Click to expand...

That first paragraph was freaking great:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
Drogba said:
The one thing undergrad has taught me, and I assume this is even more relevant in medical school, is that its not longer acceptable to be just intelligent. If you aren't actively using your intelligence and working hard then being intelligent doesn't really count for much.

Like others have said though, I would rather be naturally gifted in my brain power than a natural hardworker (if this is even possible, who is born with a work ethic?). The latter is completely up to the individual and within certainly limits can compensate for the former, which is probably partly (maybe substantially?) genetically predetermined.
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You've obviously not met a true lazy genius. My roommate got a 40 on the MCAT and i've never even seen him study (he sits right next to me all day long playing video games). He got into med school after only 2 years in college getting a pretty low GPA to boot. I've never seen him study for his classes or even do homework; it's literally 16 hours of gaming every day. But I agree that in med school he'll have to improve his work ethic. Still, the lazy genius seems to only have to work a tenth as hard as everyone else to acheive the same success.
 
Most on the fourms say intelligence its crazy because I think that is a bit depressing. Well, I am expecting to see responses on "What My Chances?" Thread to be.. you are just not smart enough for medical school.
 
I consider myself an intelligent person, but I would put more faith in hardwork than raw intellectual ability to succeed at school.

Lets be honest, most of the material undergraduate science courses cover are not inherintly challenging, but difficult only in their intricacy. Intelligence may help you grasp and apply the concepts, but without lots of hard work there is no way you can memorize and understand that huge bulk of information taught in science classes.

But the OP presents a false dichotomy; there is no reason why you could not be both intelligent and hard working. In fact, a really intelligent person should understand the necessity of hard work in pursuing a career in medicine.
 
Arjunsi said:
I consider myself an intelligent person, but I would put more faith in hardwork than raw intellectual ability to succeed at school.

Lets be honest, most of the material undergraduate science courses cover are not inherintly challenging, but difficult only in their intricacy. Intelligence may help you grasp and apply the concepts, but without lots of hard work there is no way you can memorize and understand that huge bulk of information taught in science classes.

But the OP presents a false dichotomy; there is no reason why you could not be both intelligent and hard working. In fact, a really intelligent person should understand the necessity of hard work in pursuing a career in medicine.
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I like your response, but you failed to read by post correctly or its entirety. I said if you had to pick between intelligence or hard work. I believe most on here have both, and those who claim have intelligence but no hard work are usually found posting the infamous "What MCAT score do I need to make up for my low GPA" Thread.

I would be careful when picking intelligence due to the fact that everybody fails at something. When you fail will you pick yourself up and work harder or say .. "I am just not smart enough"
 
Arjunsi said:
I consider myself an intelligent person, but I would put more faith in hardwork than raw intellectual ability to succeed at school.

Lets be honest, most of the material undergraduate science courses cover are not inherintly challenging, but difficult only in their intricacy. Intelligence may help you grasp and apply the concepts, but without lots of hard work there is no way you can memorize and understand that huge bulk of information taught in science classes.

But the OP presents a false dichotomy; there is no reason why you could not be both intelligent and hard working. In fact, a really intelligent person should understand the necessity of hard work in pursuing a career in medicine.
Click to expand...

I think the general consensus is that one without the other is not going to get you very far, at least in medicine.
 
I am far more intelligent than a hard worker.

I would choose being a hard worker. But without 1 you fail IMO at almost everything
 
jr doctor in sd said:
I am far more intelligent than a hard worker.

I would choose being a hard worker. But without 1 you fail IMO at almost everything
Click to expand...

Good thing you have a great deal of control of how hard a worker you are :]
 
Drogba said:
I think the general consensus is that one without the other is not going to get you very far
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What does the president of the United States have? Intelligence or Hard-working? Or both?
 
aaj117 said:
definitely intelligence. i think it'd be much more useful and time saving to just get things the first time
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Ditto. I'd rather be the kid who figures something out in an hour than the kid who takes a full day of sweating to get the same result. And as others mentioned, you can control how hard you work, but not how intelligent you are.
 
Some people are really well prepared for college due to a good high school education. Consequently, they have to study less in college to get good results. Often this is mistaken for intelligence by their peers.

Many people are very good at making you believe they don't study and get good grades due to their intelligence alone... So the answer to your question depends on your idea of intelligence.

2 people can have the same potential when they are 6 months old, but due to circumstances one of these people may get a chance to develop their abilities for 18 years and the other person may not to the same extent. So judging people by how much they need to study to get good grades is kind of silly.
 
Femme Fatale said:
BOTH. If you are intelligent but lazy, you'll just do the bare mininum to get by. You may only flourish by manipulating and using people. If you are hardworking with no intelligence, you may be used and manipulated by the intelligent and lazy.
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hahaha, well said.
 
BrokenGlass said:
Some people are really well prepared for college due to a good high school education. Consequently, they have to study less in college to get good results. Often this is mistaken for intelligence by their peers.

Many people are very good at making you believe they don't study and get good grades due to their intelligence alone... So the answer to your question depends on your idea of intelligence.

2 people can have the same potential when they are 6 months old, but due to circumstances one of these people may get a chance to develop their abilities for 18 years and the other person may not to the same extent. So judging people by how much they need to study to get good grades is kind of silly.
Click to expand...



...good point.
 
Intelligence. Most intelligent people know when to put in the effort to get something done, just as they know when they can slack and still make the cut.

People say you can't cram for medical school tests. My view is that while you shouldn't cram for medical school tests, I'd rather have the ability to do so and still make an A when the need arises.

Being intelligent but extraordinarily lazy isn't going to get you anywhere. Being a hard worker probably will. But being intelligent, and motivated enough to "do what it takes for each circumstance" seems like a more efficient way to success. Those people wind up in rads, derm, plastics, etc. Those are the people who are in the top quarter of their class and have plenty of time for a balanced life - significant other, hobbies, relaxation, etc. The hard workers make it, and many go on to do great things, but their lives are much more stressful with less time to actually enjoy life.
 
No one will agree with me probably, but I think believing in some type of mythical Good Will Hunting type of intelligence is self defeating. I like an article that came out in Scientific American about a year ago a lot. August 2006 issue, Secrets of the Expert Mind.

http://sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00010347-101C-14C1-8F9E83414B7F4945&chanID=sa006

"The preponderance of psychological evidence indicates that experts are made, not born."


Read it. Live it. Hard work MAKES you intelligent. It's not an either/or question. It's cause and effect.
 
Kthanksbye said:
No one will agree with me probably, but I think believing in some type of mythical Good Will Hunting type of intelligence is self defeating. I like an article that came out in Scientific American about a year ago a lot. August 2006 issue, Secrets of the Expert Mind.

http://sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00010347-101C-14C1-8F9E83414B7F4945&chanID=sa006

"The preponderance of psychological evidence indicates that experts are made, not born."


Read it. Live it. Hard work MAKES you intelligent. It's not an either/or question. It's cause and effect.
Click to expand...

Right, it's all a matter of personality. Your talent is made up of your intelligence and work ethic, and they can't be separated.
 
Well the better thing to discus here is, how do you measure intelligence?

Measuring hard work isn't all that hard, but measuring the level of intelligence is a completely different story.

I know one of my friends from college years who was awesome at games like scrabble, and was able to read a full novel in less than 2 days and write awesome book reports (she had an amazing ability to obtain information that she read), but couldn't learn mathematics or physics without struggling….. I never fully understood this

So how do you measure someone's intelligence level ~ in regards to whats needed for medical schools.
 
You guys have obviously never met a real "lazy genius" like my roommate. He has read entire textbooks (including his current medical textbooks since he is a 1st year right now) in 5 minutes. That's right, 600 pages in 5 minutes and with high comprehension. He could read even faster if the textbook was a PDF file he can just hold PageDown key and he collects everything he sees instantly. Needless to say, a true genius does not have to study like the rest of us.
 
"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration." - Edison
 
HoboCommander said:
You guys have obviously never met a real "lazy genius" like my roommate. He has read entire textbooks (including his current medical textbooks since he is a 1st year right now) in 5 minutes. That's right, 600 pages in 5 minutes and with high comprehension. He could read even faster if the textbook was a PDF file he can just hold PageDown key and he collects everything he sees instantly. Needless to say, a true genius does not have to study like the rest of us.
Click to expand...

thats not genius.... that might be photographic memory lol
 
HoboCommander said:
You guys have obviously never met a real "lazy genius" like my roommate. He has read entire textbooks (including his current medical textbooks since he is a 1st year right now) in 5 minutes. That's right, 600 pages in 5 minutes and with high comprehension. He could read even faster if the textbook was a PDF file he can just hold PageDown key and he collects everything he sees instantly. Needless to say, a true genius does not have to study like the rest of us.
Click to expand...

I believe it's a very compelling story. But I don't believe in your roommate. If that were really true, he'd be pretty famous for it by now. 60 minutes interviewed an autistic guy for a whole hour because he memorized pi to something like 6000 decimal places and can tell you the day of the week given any date. They would probably interview your roommate if he can really absorb an entire medical textbook in 5 minutes. Should I call it....


Ok... >>cough<< BS >>cough<<
 
Kthanksbye said:
I believe it's a very compelling story. But I don't believe in your roommate. If that were really true, he'd be pretty famous for it by now. 20 minutes interviewed an autistic guy for a whole hour because he memorized pi to something like 6000 decimal places and can tell you the day of the week given any date. They would probably interview your roommate if he can really absorb an entire medical textbook in 5 minutes. Should I call it....


Ok... >>cough<< BS >>cough<<
Click to expand...

He's not famous because there are other such geniuses. Google "photoreaders" and you'll see that such people exist, and they are successful in life without much effort compared to us mere mortals. My roommate also beat me in chess as soon as I taught it to him, even though I've been playing since I was 3 and am quite good at it. He's a genius, and he got into med school while playing video games 16 hours a day. He doesn't study or go to class. Hence, lazy genius.
 
HoboCommander said:
He's not famous because there are other such geniuses. Google "photoreaders" and you'll see that such people exist, and they are successful in life without much effort compared to us mere mortals. My roommate also beat me in chess as soon as I taught it to him, even though I've been playing since I was 3 and am quite good at it. He's a genius, and he got into med school while playing video games 16 hours a day. He doesn't study or go to class. Hence, lazy genius.
Click to expand...

Ok, I will reserve judgment until I actually meet one of these mythical beasts. Until then, I remain skeptical. Kind of reminds me of the "Indigo Children" from the 90s, though. That was a marketing scam. I see from googleing "photoreaders" that there are a lot of people selling products as well....
 
Well if you did bad on a test are you going to say... I guess I am not smart enought to make an A?
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I might not be a genius but I know I am smart enough to get some things done. But if I had a choice between intelligence and good work ethics I would choose intelligence. Intelligent people have to work less to get stuff done.
 
You guys have obviously never met a real "lazy genius" like my roommate. He has read entire textbooks (including his current medical textbooks since he is a 1st year right now) in 5 minutes. That's right, 600 pages in 5 minutes and with high comprehension. He could read even faster if the textbook was a PDF file he can just hold PageDown key and he collects everything he sees instantly. Needless to say, a true genius does not have to study like the rest of us.
Click to expand...

I call that B.S
No one can read a whole text book 600+ pages in less then 5 min. Not even if they have photographic memory.
 
HoboCommander said:
He's not famous because there are other such geniuses. Google "photoreaders" and you'll see that such people exist, and they are successful in life without much effort compared to us mere mortals. My roommate also beat me in chess as soon as I taught it to him, even though I've been playing since I was 3 and am quite good at it. He's a genius, and he got into med school while playing video games 16 hours a day. He doesn't study or go to class. Hence, lazy genius.
Click to expand...

I would love to meet your roommate. Lazy geniuses are great. Seriously, who would you rather have a conversation with. A genius will tell you something you never would have thought of yourself. What will a hardworker tell you - a list of molecules he's memorized? Booooooooring.
 
Women find intelligence much sexier than hard work.
 
Really, it boils down to a victim/blame mentality vs. making things work for you/personal responsibility. Believing some people have vast intelligence that you just don't have is a great way to blame something outside of your control for your lack of success. On the other hand, if masters are made, not born, then you can do something about it. You're in control.
 
NCF145 said:
Women find intelligence much sexier than hard work.
Click to expand...


but many times women cannot distinguish between the two. And women value maturity above all, both physical and mental.
 
Techmed07 said:
he is a savant.. what are his people skills like?
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he seems to be autistic (rarely talks, never makes eye contact, cross-eyed all the time), but yet he did well on his interviews since many med schools accepted him. i'm pissed that i worked so much harder than him, and he entered med school after only 2 years of college while i'm still struggling to get in.
 
HARDWORK by a landslide. I am surprised that so many say intelligence. Intelligence helps you only in some areas of medicine/life. Hard work helps you everywhere. This seems like a no-brainer
 
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