Interested in your leave of absence and interviewing stories

[n618ft]

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Anyone that took a leave of absence in med school - I want your 20/20 hindsight! Can you share your stories about taking the leave, any advantages/disadvantages you think it created during the interview process, if you thought you should have gotten more interviews, if every interviewer asked about it, and what they asked?


Err... just realized I posted this in rotations. Same thing goes though for anyone that's already had interviews!

 

[Rendar5]

Every single interviewer asked about it, and it was a yellow flag. I got into a good residency regardless of it, in a moderately competitive field. If I had a choice, I would not have taken a leave of absence (but I didn't really have a choice)

 

[n618ft]

Bump for more stories.

 

[isaqqx]

Bump also
Maybe this question would do better on different forum? Suggestions

 

[n618ft]

Yes, can someone move this to the general residency forum? Much appreciated!

 

[isaqqx]

n618ft,

i guess this isn't that common. not too sure were else we can post to get more answers and advice

 

[NotAProgDirector]

From a PD persepective, "It depends".

Technically, taking a year off for research or to get another degree (MPH, MBA) is an LOA. These are clearly either a positive or neutral for your application. Usually these types of experiences strengthen your application.

Some students take an LOA to pass a step -- either they fail it first and then take an LOA, or they are worried they will fail it and take the LOA prophylactically. These are clearly a negative -- failing a step is a negative in the first place, and it's not clear that an LOA makes it any worse. Lots of students end up with a 1 month LOA to study for a step and then graduate on time -- that's not a big deal at all. But if you take a big LOA to study, it is an issue as I expect that as a resident you'll be able to work and study for exams at the same time, so I'd expect you to do that as a student also.

I'm assuming you're asking for other LOA's -- either for medical issues, or for personal issues. These are more of a mixed bag. In general, you're probably better off disclosing exactly what the leave was about -- leaving it unstated or saying "personal issues" tends to make people nervous.

 

[gdmd1111]

I took a LOA since my wife was a year behind me in medical school, and we were committed to couples matching together. Even if no one brings it up, I make a point to do so because it gets 3 points across: 1) I am couples matching, 2) I was very productive in my year off with regards to research, and 3) It allows me to talk about my future research plans in academic medicine. With that said, most interviewers have brought it up. I think the people who have responded with a "it depends" are probably right. If you took time off to get an extra degree, you will be asked, "Well why did you want to do that", so make sure you have a good answer. If you took time off for "personal reasons", then be prepared to explain that in limited detail, and perhaps how that time off helped you excel better in medical school, blah blah blah. It's all about how you spin things on the interview trail.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I'm not sure I agree with this. As a PD, would you rather see an application that says "personal/family issues" or one that says "withdrew because spouse became threatening, unsupportive, abruptly relocated, and was unfaithful" Some reasons I think are TMI and would be weird to list.

I would say "LOA result of a complicated and prolonged divorce which required my full attention and would not allow me to fully focus on my studies", or something like that. No need for the messy details.

 

[gutonc]

Is it really that big of a problem to just say "personal issue?" I am surprised that any program would care or want to know more details about this as long as there is a mention in the dean's letter that it was for non-academic reasons. There are bad things that happen to all kinds of people that I wouldn't even be comfortable mentioning here, let alone on an ERAS application. I think openly disclosing a lot of this "personal" stuff would scare a lot of people away, and I certainly wouldn't want to ask lest I humiliate the person. Maybe it's the just more conservative background I come from where people don't openly talk about their embarrassing personal issues, even with family members. It makes everyone in the room uncomfortable.

But I understand what you are saying. You see "personal issues" and think "mental breakdown/couldn't handle the stress." But even if that were the case, unless there's a history of it happening multiple times, is that really a problem? We're all human and have been through stuff whether we openly admit it on our ERAS or not. If there's no other evidence of a problem, I don't see why a LOA is a DQ. If grades are in check, step1/2 good, good LORs, good personality fit, etc., well, I guess I just don't see how a LOA could be anything other than neutral. Is there some data out there that links LOA in med school to not finishing residency? People graduate college in 5 years, 6 years, even more for all kinds of messed up personal reasons. I've never heard of an employer anywhere caring. Only in the medical field where every tiny deviation from perfect is an albatross on your neck forever.

Get used to it. That's how you're going to get paid by the time you're done with residency.

To answer your bigger question, the problem with something vague like "personal issues" is that it could be something legitimate but not particularly worrisome in the long run, like the marital issues you described, or the death/illness of a close family member (and by this I don't mean Grandma or your aunt...parents, sibs, spouse, kids, that's all that counts), or it could be a significant personal physical or mental illness, in which case it may have long-term repercussions/impact on your training, or, it could be (as happened in my residency program after I left but while I was still a fellow at the institution) that your cat died and you couldn't pull it together to go to work for 6 months (no s*&t...true story).

In the first group above, PDs are likely to say "bummer, good job taking care of what you needed to do and pulling through". For the second group, they're going to have legitimate questions about your ability to do the job that you will hopefully be able to answer. And for the 3rd group...no...just no. So, when you come for an interview and I ask, "tell me how you handled the issues that led to your LOA and how that will make you a better physician?", if you answer "I had personal problems and I fixed them" I'm going to assume that you're either one overnight shift in the ICU away from going full nutty on me or your cat died 6 different times during med school.

That's why you answer the question.

 

[isaqqx]

Get used to it. That's how you're going to get paid by the time you're done with residency.

To answer your bigger question, the problem with something vague like "personal issues" is that it could be something legitimate but not particularly worrisome in the long run, like the marital issues you described, or the death/illness of a close family member (and by this I don't mean Grandma or your aunt...parents, sibs, spouse, kids, that's all that counts), or it could be a significant personal physical or mental illness, in which case it may have long-term repercussions/impact on your training, or, it could be (as happened in my residency program after I left but while I was still a fellow at the institution) that your cat died and you couldn't pull it together to go to work for 6 months (no s*&t...true story).

In the first group above, PDs are likely to say "bummer, good job taking care of what you needed to do and pulling through". For the second group, they're going to have legitimate questions about your ability to do the job that you will hopefully be able to answer. And for the 3rd group...no...just no. So, when you come for an interview and I ask, "tell me how you handled the issues that led to your LOA and how that will make you a better physician?", if you answer "I had personal problems and I fixed them" I'm going to assume that you're either one overnight shift in the ICU away from going full nutty on me or your cat died 6 different times during med school.

That's why you answer the question.

What if grandma, aunt, uncle raised you? Not everyone is from the all American ideal of a nuclear family. Medicine is still run by ethocentric people. Sorry, I am sure gutonc didnt mean that statement like that, but that is how it reads. Just stuff in medicine that bothers me

 

[isaqqx]

Kristofer,

Maybe we can remember this when we are in a position to judge students/residents. We can change the attitude of medicine from negative to empathy. We are supposed to be caring people to be in medicine, but medicine is the least caring, forgiving, understanding towards each other. total hypocrites.

I am glad your loa is not hindering you.

 

[gutonc]

What if grandma, aunt, uncle raised you? Not everyone is from the all American ideal of a nuclear family. Medicine is still run by ethocentric people. Sorry, I am sure gutonc didnt mean that statement like that, but that is how it reads. Just stuff in medicine that bothers me

Strong work.

Also, who are you to judge my life experience?

 

[isaqqx]

Strong work.

Also, who are you to judge my life experience?

Lol

It seems you become defensive when someone 'judges' you. I apologize. You are absolutely right. I have no right to 'judge' you. Just like you have no right to judge if grieving with a loa for a grandmother is appropriate or judge the resident that took 6mos off bc their cat died. I think that was the point Kristofer was trying to convey in his above post.

I do, however, have a right to have a thought on your comments that you posted on a public forum. I am sorry that you did not like those thoughts. I did not care for your thoughts on what is an appropriate way for someone to grieve over a dead relative.

It is scary that you respond so poorly to being 'judged.' Perhaps we can both learn from this experience. We can both think twice before we judge people for what has happened in their lives. I can only hope this will make you a better 'attending' by being more understanding of your students and residents. I know your reaction to my comments have made me think about how I made you feel as if I 'judged' you.

 

[gutonc]

And again, while you were busy getting your panties in a wad you missed the point of my original post entirely.

Regardless of what was responsible for your LOA (and I really don't care what it was) if you just say "personal issues" most people are going to assume the worst (like you basically can't handle the pressure of med school and break down every time something doesn't go your way). So decide how you're going to answer the question and understand that being vague is the worst thing you can do because it allows the imagination of the interviewer to run wild. You don't need to give all the details, but you need to convince the programs that it's not something that's likely to happen again.

 

[gutonc]

Knowing how to address it with someone who doesn't share my opinion is important, although I'm still not sure that bringing it up on the application is actually a good idea. I agree that it would be bad to say "it was personal I don't want to talk about it" if asked about it in person, but I still think it might be better to just briefly write "personal LOA" on the application and then explain it in the interview if anyone is concerned. What if you simply wrote "personal LOA to deal with a family matter" on the application? This makes it clear it wasn't a psych or academic LOA and nobody wants to know other people's family problems.

I think this is fine but aPD had a nice alternative up above. Something like "took an extended leave to deal with a death in the family" and then follow that up in the interview with more details if asked. Again, just saying "personal LOA" lets peoples imaginations run wild and you do NOT want that.

 

[Rebs28]

I took a partial year's leave of absence after the death of a family member and was very honest in my application and personal statement, perhaps to the point of too much disclosure, but it has served me well. I applied to 33 programs in psych and received 30 interview invitations. I've been on 8 interviews so far, and it has come up at least once during nearly every interview day, but not with every interviewer. Each time I've been careful not to give TMI, but have been very open and honest about the situation and have discussed how it has helped me grow as a clinician and as a human being. Of course, I won't know for certain until match day how well I have fared, but I've received good feedback so far and believe that this is the best way to handle a situation such as this - with as much honesty as you are comfortable with, while emphasizing how you have emerged as a stronger person.

 

[isaqqx]

.

 

[eforest]

I took a leave of absence during medical school and spent time in a psychiatric facility. I managed to match into my top choice. During interviews, I did admit that I'd suffered from emotional problems, including depression. Someone asked if I was on medication. I said yes. Generally, people are just worried that you will have to take time off during residency for similar problems.

 

[mymembernames]

.

 

[NRAI2001]

I took close to a year off... it came up on every interview I went on and I believe it severely hurt my application. Though when I explained the reason to the interviewers for my LOA they generally agreed that I did the right thing and believed it was a legitimate reason for a LOA I believe that it really hurt my app later during their applicant discussions. At places I did really well on my interview and places that basically said you will be ranked really highly (moderately competitive programs) I did not end up matching at.

Now being in residency and having seen the other side of the whole process last year I could definitely see it would hurt or atleast put in doubt most applicants (unless if you took a year off to do research or something clinical).

 

[mymembernames]

I took close to a year off... it came up on every interview I went on and I believe it severely hurt my application. Though when I explained the reason to the interviewers for my LOA they generally agreed that I did the right thing and believed it was a legitimate reason for a LOA I believe that it really hurt my app later during their applicant discussions. At places I did really well on my interview and places that basically said you will be ranked really highly (moderately competitive programs) I did not end up matching at.

Now being in residency and having seen the other side of the whole process last year I could definitely see it would hurt or atleast put in doubt most applicants (unless if you took a year off to do research or something clinical).

But you were still able to match that year? Not just at your top choice.

 

[NRAI2001]

But you were still able to match that year? Not just at your top choice.

Yes... went on over 25 interviews (and was asked about it multiple times at every interview) and matched at a program that I really like, but at the time it was my number 5 rank. I do feel like I nailed the interviews and second looks at the programs above my current program.... though in hindsight I am very happy I matched at my current program and would have likely moved it to number 3 knowing what I know about it now.