Interesting editorial

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Of all the challenges and legitimate battles emergency medicine has to fight, this is not one of them.

The comments section of the article is as equally depressing as the article itself.

Meanwhile, CMS, insurance companies, bureaucrats and attorneys run roughshod over the decade plus of your life and thousands of dollars you spent training.

Bicker away. There's at least a dozen industries happy to let you think that the radiologists are the parasites feeding off your hard work. And while physicians sit around fighting, they win.
 
Agreed. I think there are bigger issues to work on rather than who gets the money. I can sympathize with Mallon's position, and understand the irritation of the responding radiologists, but fighting turf battles isn't productive in the long run. I wonder if his editorial was in any way prompted by the article published by the ACR last month.
 
Wow.

I am mortified.

That is a public site that anyone can get on and read.

Should patients and LAWYERS really be given that kind of fodder?

The whole thing was inappropriate, immature, and unprofessional. But to post this nonsense in a PUBLIC place shows incredible lack of judgment.
 
Maybe I am just not that good, but I do not have a 100% correct reading rate on plain films. I doubt rads is 100%, but I feel confident they are certainly better than I am....

I personally like the comfort of a BC/BE Radiologist reviewing my films on Monday morning. There has been more than one 'small fracture' or pulmonary nodule that was pointed out and a patient was contacted for followup.

On the flip side, I have caught a few things they missed. My most favorite was a scapula fracture and 4 rib fractures with a small pneumo.. that was on a CT Chest from an OSH that was read by telerad stuff.. ugh.
 
This one. it's really a pile of bollocks, can't really believe it was published. There was a bit of hubbub about it on the ACEP listserv. Anyway, i hear what you're saying about telerads missing stuff. I've picked up stuff that rads has missed as well, think we all have. I went to one of the rads attendings at my old institution about the huge whopping mandibular fracture he read as "no fracture identified." I think the telerads vs. institutional rads is a whole other story though.
 

Attachments

This guy went off! He has a point but yeah I think a call from the USC Chief of staff will be forthcoming. You can't piss off an entire revenue generating department like that in addition to accusations of fraud without attracting some heat. He has tenure but yeah not sure I would have done it...
 
Wow.

I am mortified.

That is a public site that anyone can get on and read.

Should patients and LAWYERS really be given that kind of fodder?

The whole thing was inappropriate, immature, and unprofessional. But to post this nonsense in a PUBLIC place shows incredible lack of judgment.

Are the claims false, because if not, it doesn't seem like the right thing for them to do.
 
I'm very pleased with our radiologists, but we have 24/7 reads of all studies (including plain films) at our community ED.

I'd be more interested in fighting the battle over the cardiologists reading and billing for the ECG a day later, after all care related to the ECG has been rendered after my *free* interpretation.
 
After reading the comments, I agree this is bad for the community!
 
I was reading the comments on that website. This one is by far my favorite:

"From a radiologist/interventionalis written by Radiologist , October 05, 2011

This is a gross generalization. We don't all drive black German cars, mine is blue"
 
I was reading the comments on that website. This one is by far my favorite:

"From a radiologist/interventionalis written by Radiologist , October 05, 2011

This is a gross generalization. We don't all drive black German cars, mine is blue"

I saw that, I lol'ed.
 
1) Agree with Birdstrike et. al.: the sheer pathetic whinyness of american doctors complaining about other american doctors making too much money for too little work is nauseating.

2) I <3 radiologists. I think radiologists are kind of goofy, and I'd quit medicine before I'd ever do their job, but I still love them.

3) We're overdue for a discussion on the quality of teleradiology. My in-house radiologists? Great. My teleradiologists? Mostly great, but if I can pick up a ptx on a cxr that they miss (and I have), I get worried. Good thing one commenter reminded us that no one is perfect.

4) If I were a radiologist, I'd drive a black BMW 6-series. Beautiful car.
 
I haven't really looked at literature on telerads vs. institutional rads, but obviously feel much more comfortable with the latter. I think telerads companies within the US can be ok (hey, who wouldn't like to work from home and get paid a lot for it), usually there would be background checks, performance markers, etc. Once the telerads starts getting outsourced overseas though, it opens up to a huge number of insecurities. What was that story a couple years ago where someone overseas had been working as a tele radiologist for years who wasn't even a radiologist? That's :scared:
 
We're All "Rich Greedy Doctors"

Having spent years in the trenches as an Emergency Physician earning much less than many "specialists", I understand the resentment and bitterness felt by the author towards specialists who he feels are "under-worked and over-payed". However, being in the rare and unique position where I will soon become one of those "under-worked and over-payed" specialists, I see things differently now.

Quoting the article:

{...the pie isn’t going to get bigger. The only question is “How big is your slice?” If you feel you deserve more of the pie, then someone else will consequently get less. Our slice should be bigger, and the fraudulent radiology slice can get smaller. [http://www.epmonthly.com/columns/in-my-opinion/the-life-cycle-of-a-parasitic-specialist/] }

This is where he's wrong, wrong and wrong. Making the radiologists "slice of the pie smaller" will NOT make the ER physicians slice bigger. While as Greg Henry correctly states "the pie isn't going to get bigger", it can AND WILL get smaller! For everybody!

The government and insurance companies will be ecstatic to seize on our infighting as an opportunity to make those "very over-payed radiologists" take a pay cut and make those greedy "somewhat over-payed ER doctors" take a pay cut too!!! Some would say we're all "rich greedy doctors". He should know better.

I understand that it's tough to get shelled in the ED night and day for years. I've done it (though not as long as the author), and it can be brutal at times. Clearly, there are other specialties that earn much more for less stressful and less physically and emotionally taxing work. I agree, and I've written before about how it makes no sense that saving a life by intubating a patient, for example, should pay much less than performing cosmetic procedures or even reading a film after the fact. But, frankly, the author comes off as and bitter, burned out and jealous. I know. I've been there. And that's fine, if you admit it and use your prominence to talk about how to make the specialty less burnout inducing.

Slamming radiologists and lobbying to get their pay cut will only result in ALL OF US GETTING PAY CUTS. You should know better; that slamming one specialty will not result in the elevation or improvement of any other.

Suck it up. Do the extra training. Make the sacrifice. You wouldn't be the first guy to do a second residency, do a fellowship, start a business or take some other risk to better yourself late in life. It's much easier to just stay bitter and burned out.

Trying to tear down someone else who you're clearly jealous of, will clearly not result in your situation improving.

What fields should I look at?

EM is my top choice right now in front of surgery/anesthesia... but I am open to looking at other stuff!
 
Ive met Mallon a few times and had lunch with him before as well. This is the axe he likes to grind. He has a point but it must be institution dependent. We have our radiologists in house 24/7 and ours amaze me with their knowledge and their willingness to help me out no matter what.
 
Birdstrike wont share this magical field. My guess is GAS since he posts in that other forum as well.
 
Birdstrike wont share this magical field. My guess is GAS since he posts in that other forum as well.

That was my vote, Anesthesia or Pain. Pain has big reimbursements right now and nice practice environment. Anesthesia, according to their forum, is in a world of hurt in the next ~10 years but they should be fine in the short term.

They are talking about 1:6 supervisor ratios for the nurses and it could even increase. Everyone is recommending to be fellowship trained now, CC or cards/peds.

Anesthesia is "better" (more benign schedule) lifestyle but they still work pretty hard, and they could go from 400k to 200k salary pretty soon.
 
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The turf always looks so green and inviting...but behind every one of those bushes lies a specialist with an uzi and a bazooka....and shoes filled with C-4 that tend to malfunction due to defective fuses. Just google "Richard Reid" if you didn't get that last part... Ha, made myself laugh.
 
Birdstrike.. why not share your new specialty with us?

FWIW I think overall EM is tough.. you have to have a degree of luck and a degree of hard work to find a job that is great. I feel I found one of these. Pay is good, job isnt too hard and relatively stable contract.

I know of other good jobs in texas, TN, AZ, GA. If you arent in one of these states and hate your job consider moving. There are other good jobs out there. I know Quinn mentioned his job in WI, I know some guys with sweet jobs in Indiana and Illinois as well.
 
Birdstrike.. why not share your new specialty with us?

FWIW I think overall EM is tough.. you have to have a degree of luck and a degree of hard work to find a job that is great. I feel I found one of these. Pay is good, job isnt too hard and relatively stable contract.

I know of other good jobs in texas, TN, AZ, GA. If you arent in one of these states and hate your job consider moving. There are other good jobs out there. I know Quinn mentioned his job in WI, I know some guys with sweet jobs in Indiana and Illinois as well.

What makes these jobs good?

Pay and schedule or work environment?

You are talking about private, not academic I assume.
 
As Medicine is going, most of us agree all physicians will be paid less, to varying degrees. Don't think that all other doctors are going to take pay cuts and somehow only ER doctors will be the chosen ones to get a pay raise. I just don't believe that it's going to happen that way. Therefore the huge financial rewards and motivators that were there in the past will be there no longer. As a result, in my opinion, the premium will be on HAVING A NORMAL LIFE outside of medicine (which admittedly, some people just don't care about). The best fields will NOT be those that pay high 6-, or 7-figures (because they won't exist), but those where you can have a normal life. Working normal hours (8-4 or close to it), light or no call, weekends and holidays off with your family, no nights or 6pm-4am shifts. Such specialties will be the Holy Grail of the future of medicine. A few examples of such specialties to look at, in my opinion, are:

Derm
Pain
Allergy/immunology
Path
Rads
Rad/onc
Heme/onc
Rheum
PM&R
Palliative Care
Gas
- (if doing elective cases only) or,
Plastic Surgery - (and only plastic surgery since there are few emergencies and their patients will always pay 10 times more for new breasts than they will for you to save their life)

If you absolutely need to operate to be happy, than be a general surgeon.

If you absolutely need to run peds codes, adult codes, trauma codes and to be at the center of the chaos at all hours of the night to be happy, then be an EM doc.

If you absolutely need to be woken up to crack a skull open at 3am over and over and over again to be happy, then be a neurosurgeon.

It's not about money, or being lazy, or not wanting to work hard. It's about what makes you tick; what's important to you. It's not only about what seems good when you're 26, but what'll work for you when you're 36, 46, 56 and maybe 66.

This is just one man's opinion. To the other "seasoned" veterans on here, please feel free to disagree.

I appreciate the advice very much. I agree with your point about normal working hours and I don't feel like I absolutely need to do any one specialty. My main attraction to EM is the variety more than anything. Your point about what one will enjoy at 26-66 is EXACTLY my focus in trying to find a specialty! I know I won't be able to work overnight in my 60s, so I was looking at some EM double boards (like CC).

Anyway, to the list:

Derm: super competitive and admittedly no interest.
Pain: possible
Allergy/immunology: possible
Path: Unlikely because I enjoy procedures/working with people
Rads: Outlier because it's interesting, but again I enjoy patients.
Rad/onc: Heavy research, unlikely match
Heme/onc: Interesting
Rheum: Don't know anything about this
PM&R: Sometimes these folks seem a bit strange, also incredibly easy to match, not sure if the group of physicians will have strong advocacy (like say EM or Gas has good national organizations).
Palliative Care: Maybe I will look at this, I've heard good things.
Gas- (if doing elective cases only) or,
Plastic Surgery: Impossible to match.

So taking out the SUPER competitive, difficult to match PS/Derm/RadOnc; That leaves Pain, Allergy, Rads, Heme/Onc, Rheum, PMR, Gas, Pallitative care.

Thanks for the advice. I will have to look more into some of these.
 
What makes these jobs good?

Pay and schedule or work environment?

You are talking about private, not academic I assume.

All depends. I have friends doing mixed academics, work 9 shifts a month academic and make over 300k with minimal admin.

For me my job which is a community job with rotating EM and FP residents is great because of schedule (equal from day 1), work environment, and pay.
 
All depends. I have friends doing mixed academics, work 9 shifts a month academic and make over 300k with minimal admin.

For me my job which is a community job with rotating EM and FP residents is great because of schedule (equal from day 1), work environment, and pay.

Wow. I think EM is one of the best specialties if you find the right work environment/schedule mix.
 
I appreciate the advice very much. I agree with your point about normal working hours and I don't feel like I absolutely need to do any one specialty. My main attraction to EM is the variety more than anything. Your point about what one will enjoy at 26-66 is EXACTLY my focus in trying to find a specialty! I know I won't be able to work overnight in my 60s, so I was looking at some EM double boards (like CC).

Anyway, to the list:

Derm: super competitive and admittedly no interest.
Pain: possible
Allergy/immunology: possible
Path: Unlikely because I enjoy procedures/working with people
Rads: Outlier because it's interesting, but again I enjoy patients.
Rad/onc: Heavy research, unlikely match
Heme/onc: Interesting
Rheum: Don't know anything about this
PM&R: Sometimes these folks seem a bit strange, also incredibly easy to match, not sure if the group of physicians will have strong advocacy (like say EM or Gas has good national organizations).
Palliative Care: Maybe I will look at this, I've heard good things.
Gas- (if doing elective cases only) or,
Plastic Surgery: Impossible to match.

So taking out the SUPER competitive, difficult to match PS/Derm/RadOnc; That leaves Pain, Allergy, Rads, Heme/Onc, Rheum, PMR, Gas, Pallitative care.

Thanks for the advice. I will have to look more into some of these.

Don't underestimate the difficulty of some of the medicine subspecialties. Allergy especially is pretty competitive. Don't know much about Rheum other than there aren't enough rheumatologists in most areas.

Heme/Onc is not a life-style specialty. It's currently very lucrative to do adult oncology secondary to reimbursement for chemo regimens, but that will change once CMS gets around to cracking down on infusion suites. Right now it falls under the "make a lot of money/work really hard" quadrant of the reimbursement vs. work chart.

As for strong national body, I happen to think ACEP does a decent job of representing our interests. Other than cornering the market on propofol administration, I don't know that anaesthesia's national body would be considered a model for protecting a specialty. <cough> CRNAs <cough>
 
Wow. I think EM is one of the best specialties if you find the right work environment/schedule mix.

This is the key. Avoid TeamHealth, EmCare and all the other parasites. While the numbers are dwindling there are true democratic groups out there who make decent money. Focus on this and you will likely have a happy career.

My shop averages 1.8 pph. Not hard at all. I make good money, I do a good job at work.

We have press ganey but nothing is tied to it other than our overall contract which is of course a huge deal. Luckily our scores have been great.
 
Arcan, I'm not saying they don't work hard, but when's the last time you saw a heme/onc attending down in the ED at 3am, on a holiday or on a weekend?

It's true that onc emergencies are rare (coming in to look at a peripheral smear being the main one that can't be handled by phone).
And the clinic schedule makes up the majority of the hours, but pt's getting chemo are sick and unless you have resident/fellow coverage then you're phone is going to blow up.

But to answer your original question, I saw them in the ED every other weekend at my last shop and had to call them in 3 times in the middle of the night this year (2 TTP patients, 1 acute blast crisis).

Of course, like in every specialty, if you join a large enough group the amount of call becomes minimal.
 
Don't underestimate the difficulty of some of the medicine subspecialties. Allergy especially is pretty competitive. Don't know much about Rheum other than there aren't enough rheumatologists in most areas.

Heme/Onc is not a life-style specialty. It's currently very lucrative to do adult oncology secondary to reimbursement for chemo regimens, but that will change once CMS gets around to cracking down on infusion suites. Right now it falls under the "make a lot of money/work really hard" quadrant of the reimbursement vs. work chart.

One thing I thought was missing from that list was GI. It has a nice mix of procedural and clinic patients, very good reimbursement at present, and the opportunity for some intellectually challenging cases if you choose to do a significant % of hepatology (though that doesn't pay as well as scopes, of course). You will have a fair number of calls/consults when you're on call (anemia NOS = GI admit), but most of them can be admitted, transfused if necessary, and then seen in the AM. Only the rare bolus/bleeding varices pt require emergent procedural intervention.

All of that said, it's definitely becoming one of the most competitive IM specialties, probably because of ^.
 
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