Interesting Forbes article

[Limvostov]

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Four Ways Your Choice Of Medical School Might Limit Your Chances At Ultra-Competitive Residencies

If you want to receive a coveted spot in one of the most competitive specialties, which tend to have the highest average annual salaries, where you go to medical school might limit your chances. Here’s how.

www.forbes.com

I remember when I was first deciding allopathic vs osteopathic and I actually chose to go osteopathic because I wanted to do either orthopedics or interventional cardiology specifically. I thought my chances would be better in the osteopathic world as I could really choose my electives and rotate in many states. In the end I have an interventional cardiology fellowship spot for July 2020. I'm even looking for structural cardiology fellow positions for July 2021 and I think my chances are decent. Being an osteopathic grad has opened more doors than it has closed and in hind site I would do exactly the same thing if I could go back and reapply because of how things worked out.

I guess the media still feels that osteopathic medicine may be a barrier for the "most competitive" specialties and maybe its true now with the single match. I guess when I looked at the numbers there were more cardiology and orthopedic spots per osteopathic grad than there were for allopathic grad especially when you looked at the number of actual applicants per seat. The AOA spots had nearly no FMG competition. Do you think this still holds true currently? I went purely based on a numbers game and it worked for me, but I wonder what others have found and how the current incoming applicants are focusing their applications if they have certain goals. This is a topic I have always found fascinating.

FYI, my IC spot is ACGME and all my prior training has been at community AOA hospitals so not even that was a barrier for a very competitive sub-specialty. Maybe I'm just one of the few that made it through, but I really met a lot of people on the application trail that had similar stories not reflective at all of the writers concerns about osteopathic medicine being a barrier for competitive specialty training. (Also, where I'm training currently has a few orthopedic grads a year and all of them get first choice sub-specialty fellowships. I have not met one in my six years training who hasn't.)

 

[sab3156]

Being an osteopathic grad has opened more doors than it has closed

Who paid you to write this? How much do they pay? Is writing posts like this a good part-time job for someone in medical school? Just wondering because I have a good amount of loans, and this seems like a good way to make some cash as a student.

 

[Neopolymath]

Four Ways Your Choice Of Medical School Might Limit Your Chances At Ultra-Competitive Residencies

If you want to receive a coveted spot in one of the most competitive specialties, which tend to have the highest average annual salaries, where you go to medical school might limit your chances. Here’s how.

www.forbes.com

I remember when I was first deciding allopathic vs osteopathic and I actually chose to go osteopathic because I wanted to do either orthopedics or interventional cardiology specifically. I thought my chances would be better in the osteopathic world as I could really choose my electives and rotate in many states. In the end I have an interventional cardiology fellowship spot for July 2020. I'm even looking for structural cardiology fellow positions for July 2021 and I think my chances are decent. Being an osteopathic grad has opened more doors than it has closed and in hind site I would do exactly the same thing if I could go back and reapply because of how things worked out.

I guess the media still feels that osteopathic medicine may be a barrier for the "most competitive" specialties and maybe its true now with the single match. I guess when I looked at the numbers there were more cardiology and orthopedic spots per osteopathic grad than there were for allopathic grad especially when you looked at the number of actual applicants per seat. The AOA spots had nearly no FMG competition. Do you think this still holds true currently? I went purely based on a numbers game and it worked for me, but I wonder what others have found and how the current incoming applicants are focusing their applications if they have certain goals. This is a topic I have always found fascinating.

FYI, my IC spot is ACGME and all my prior training has been at community AOA hospitals so not even that was a barrier for a very competitive sub-specialty. Maybe I'm just one of the few that made it through, but I really met a lot of people on the application trail that had similar stories not reflective at all of the writers concerns about osteopathic medicine being a barrier for competitive specialty training. (Also, where I'm training currently has a few orthopedic grads a year and all of them get first choice sub-specialty fellowships. I have not met one in my six years training who hasn't.)

I'm glad you are accomplishing your goals and it worked out for you. That said, this post could not be more detached from reality or helpful for anyone in school at this point. Like wow.

 

[Kevin0424]

Four Ways Your Choice Of Medical School Might Limit Your Chances At Ultra-Competitive Residencies

If you want to receive a coveted spot in one of the most competitive specialties, which tend to have the highest average annual salaries, where you go to medical school might limit your chances. Here’s how.

www.forbes.com

I remember when I was first deciding allopathic vs osteopathic and I actually chose to go osteopathic because I wanted to do either orthopedics or interventional cardiology specifically. I thought my chances would be better in the osteopathic world as I could really choose my electives and rotate in many states. In the end I have an interventional cardiology fellowship spot for July 2020. I'm even looking for structural cardiology fellow positions for July 2021 and I think my chances are decent. Being an osteopathic grad has opened more doors than it has closed and in hind site I would do exactly the same thing if I could go back and reapply because of how things worked out.

I guess the media still feels that osteopathic medicine may be a barrier for the "most competitive" specialties and maybe its true now with the single match. I guess when I looked at the numbers there were more cardiology and orthopedic spots per osteopathic grad than there were for allopathic grad especially when you looked at the number of actual applicants per seat. The AOA spots had nearly no FMG competition. Do you think this still holds true currently? I went purely based on a numbers game and it worked for me, but I wonder what others have found and how the current incoming applicants are focusing their applications if they have certain goals. This is a topic I have always found fascinating.

FYI, my IC spot is ACGME and all my prior training has been at community AOA hospitals so not even that was a barrier for a very competitive sub-specialty. Maybe I'm just one of the few that made it through, but I really met a lot of people on the application trail that had similar stories not reflective at all of the writers concerns about osteopathic medicine being a barrier for competitive specialty training. (Also, where I'm training currently has a few orthopedic grads a year and all of them get first choice sub-specialty fellowships. I have not met one in my six years training who hasn't.)

I'm glad you have worked out well. However, I find it harder to believe this:

Being an osteopathic grad has opened more doors than it has closed

With the single matching system opening up, I can only feel more pressures for DOs to match into top ( orthoped, etc.) residency programs.

 

[Limvostov]

Who paid you to write this? How much do they pay? Is writing posts like this a good part-time job for someone in medical school? Just wondering because I have a good amount of loans, and this seems like a good way to make some cash as a student.

Ya, I get it. I chose to go a very direct route and for me it really did open more doors. I could see if you were trying for urology or ENT during my match years as there were virtually no DO spots and the MD match was a nightmare for fellow DOs that I talked to. However for ortho and cardiology the DO match was a great process and really from a numbers standpoint far better odds of matching than the MD match as an MD. I guess I was curious if this has changed or not given the combined match. I went through the combined match this past spring for IC sub-fellowship and even with nearly all the programs being open to both MD and DO I had a very smooth application season. It seems that the author of this article is continuing to spread the myth that being from an osteopathic school is somehow a limitation. I've seen nothing to that effect.

And no I don't get paid, but I am forever hopeful and if you know someone paying for promoting osteopathic schools hook me up! LOL

 

[Ho0v-man]

Four Ways Your Choice Of Medical School Might Limit Your Chances At Ultra-Competitive Residencies

If you want to receive a coveted spot in one of the most competitive specialties, which tend to have the highest average annual salaries, where you go to medical school might limit your chances. Here’s how.

www.forbes.com

I remember when I was first deciding allopathic vs osteopathic and I actually chose to go osteopathic because I wanted to do either orthopedics or interventional cardiology specifically. I thought my chances would be better in the osteopathic world as I could really choose my electives and rotate in many states. In the end I have an interventional cardiology fellowship spot for July 2020. I'm even looking for structural cardiology fellow positions for July 2021 and I think my chances are decent. Being an osteopathic grad has opened more doors than it has closed and in hind site I would do exactly the same thing if I could go back and reapply because of how things worked out.

I guess the media still feels that osteopathic medicine may be a barrier for the "most competitive" specialties and maybe its true now with the single match. I guess when I looked at the numbers there were more cardiology and orthopedic spots per osteopathic grad than there were for allopathic grad especially when you looked at the number of actual applicants per seat. The AOA spots had nearly no FMG competition. Do you think this still holds true currently? I went purely based on a numbers game and it worked for me, but I wonder what others have found and how the current incoming applicants are focusing their applications if they have certain goals. This is a topic I have always found fascinating.

FYI, my IC spot is ACGME and all my prior training has been at community AOA hospitals so not even that was a barrier for a very competitive sub-specialty. Maybe I'm just one of the few that made it through, but I really met a lot of people on the application trail that had similar stories not reflective at all of the writers concerns about osteopathic medicine being a barrier for competitive specialty training. (Also, where I'm training currently has a few orthopedic grads a year and all of them get first choice sub-specialty fellowships. I have not met one in my six years training who hasn't.)

Congrats! I think you’re experience ain’t quite what we’re dealing with in the current match-pocalypse, but glad to see some of our fellow osteopathic magicians succeeding.

 

[Scrubs101]

However for ortho and cardiology the DO match was a great process and really from a numbers standpoint far better odds of matching than the MD match as an MD.

dont have the numbers on me, but last i checked the AOA ortho match rate is like 50-55% (think that was like 2014, so with many many more DO grads now probably even worse)

MD ortho match rate is lower* 80’s i think
edit: lower not upper 80s

 

[risus_sardonicus]

Four Ways Your Choice Of Medical School Might Limit Your Chances At Ultra-Competitive Residencies

If you want to receive a coveted spot in one of the most competitive specialties, which tend to have the highest average annual salaries, where you go to medical school might limit your chances. Here’s how.

www.forbes.com

I remember when I was first deciding allopathic vs osteopathic and I actually chose to go osteopathic because I wanted to do either orthopedics or interventional cardiology specifically. I thought my chances would be better in the osteopathic world as I could really choose my electives and rotate in many states. In the end I have an interventional cardiology fellowship spot for July 2020. I'm even looking for structural cardiology fellow positions for July 2021 and I think my chances are decent. Being an osteopathic grad has opened more doors than it has closed and in hind site I would do exactly the same thing if I could go back and reapply because of how things worked out.

I guess the media still feels that osteopathic medicine may be a barrier for the "most competitive" specialties and maybe its true now with the single match. I guess when I looked at the numbers there were more cardiology and orthopedic spots per osteopathic grad than there were for allopathic grad especially when you looked at the number of actual applicants per seat. The AOA spots had nearly no FMG competition. Do you think this still holds true currently? I went purely based on a numbers game and it worked for me, but I wonder what others have found and how the current incoming applicants are focusing their applications if they have certain goals. This is a topic I have always found fascinating.

FYI, my IC spot is ACGME and all my prior training has been at community AOA hospitals so not even that was a barrier for a very competitive sub-specialty. Maybe I'm just one of the few that made it through, but I really met a lot of people on the application trail that had similar stories not reflective at all of the writers concerns about osteopathic medicine being a barrier for competitive specialty training. (Also, where I'm training currently has a few orthopedic grads a year and all of them get first choice sub-specialty fellowships. I have not met one in my six years training who hasn't.)

Which DO schools paid you to write this?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Ya, I get it. I chose to go a very direct route and for me it really did open more doors. I could see if you were trying for urology or ENT during my match years as there were virtually no DO spots and the MD match was a nightmare for fellow DOs that I talked to. However for ortho and cardiology the DO match was a great process and really from a numbers standpoint far better odds of matching than the MD match as an MD. I guess I was curious if this has changed or not given the combined match. I went through the combined match this past spring for IC sub-fellowship and even with nearly all the programs being open to both MD and DO I had a very smooth application season. It seems that the author of this article is continuing to spread the myth that being from an osteopathic school is somehow a limitation. I've seen nothing to that effect.

And no I don't get paid, but I am forever hopeful and if you know someone paying for promoting osteopathic schools hook me up! LOL

So you graduated in 14? The old AOA match was in some ways beneficial to us. It wouldn't have helped as much anymore as others have mentioned the amount of grads has skyrocketed. I think we are at around 3k more students than back then. The merger was necessary in some ways. The article is right, being a DO is a hindrance to many specialties at this point.

 

[goneriding]

dont have the numbers on me, but last i checked the AOA ortho match rate is like 50-55% (think that was like 2014, so with many many more DO grads now probably even worse

MD ortho match rate is lower* 80’s i think
edit: lower not upper 80s

What I want to know is how many of those students were Comlex 650+ and did at least 4 auditions? It would be really telling if a high number of those students did not match. I wonder if that 50ish percent match rate is caused by non-competitive applicants (board score wise) who maybe only did 1 or 2 auditions. Don't think there is a way to know unfortunately.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

What I want to know is how many of those students were Comlex 650+ and did at least 4 auditions? It would be really telling if a high number of those students did not match. I wonder if that 50ish percent match rate is caused by non-competitive applicants (board score wise) who maybe only did 1 or 2 auditions. Don't think there is a way to know unfortunately.

I know a guy that was in 600s and applied to nuerosurg with four aways at old aoa, he didn't match.

 

[Scrubs101]

What I want to know is how many of those students were Comlex 650+ and did at least 4 auditions? It would be really telling if a high number of those students did not match. I wonder if that 50ish percent match rate is caused by non-competitive applicants (board score wise) who maybe only did 1 or 2 auditions. Don't think there is a way to know unfortunately.

Most of my schools unmatched applicants last year were 600+ Comlex ortho/ent gunners (though this was the year of boosted comlex scores to be fair), not sure about their application or audition strategy unfortunately

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What I want to know is how many of those students were Comlex 650+ and did at least 4 auditions? It would be really telling if a high number of those students did not match. I wonder if that 50ish percent match rate is caused by non-competitive applicants (board score wise) who maybe only did 1 or 2 auditions. Don't think there is a way to know unfortunately.

A lot of them actually.

In 2017 the COMLEX average for matched ortho was 594. The average interviews for people who match is like 4.1 and the average for those that don’t is like 3.8.

The ortho match is brutal and it isn’t easy to pick out on paper who will match and who won’t.


OP your post might have been true 10 years ago, it is no longer the case.

 

[Limvostov]

OP your post might have been true 10 years ago, it is no longer the case.

That's what I wondered... I'm of course more and more out of touch with the new grads and how they have to navigate the new match system. I'm glad I got through at the time I did. I guess I wonder how many still use the NRMP information to be strategic in how they go about matching into programs. For interventional I made a spreadsheet with every program and then looked back at match data for each one to see who had even taken a DO before. I then only applied to places a DO had attended or was currently attending in my specialty of choice in the past decade. The average applications sent out per male grad was 52 or something obscene for IC this year. I put out 28 targeted applications to known programs that take DO's or had taken them previously.

Do premed applicants use the NRMP data to pick schools? Like I tried to mention, I picked a school that could get me rotations at sites with both cardiology and orthopedic training for core rotations. Then I did additional auditions with similar focus in IM and ortho and ultimately ended up choosing the IM route. I applied the same to my interventional applications and so far I think this strategy of playing the numbers has gone well. Obviously there is no magic bullet route (you'll still need competitive scores, good letters, research, ect.) What I am asking about is more geared toward the things outside those factors that can be controlled. As a DO with AOA only match I was able to target places with a higher percentage chance for match. What do current grads do these days with the single match? How do you go about choosing a school? Might even be a better questions for pre-meds since that's really when my application strategy began.

As for board scores, of course those come into play for all applicants to a huge degree. I'm referring more to strategy from applying to med school to training (with the assumption that of course you would have to be competitive within your cohort to have a realistic chance for some things).