Interesting PoV from 'Female Science Professor'

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
This topic has become again heated. I reckon you've read the recent article in Tiernylab at NYTimes about this.

While I think there remains considerable resistance in some fields for female scientists, my impression is this: given two roughly equivalent CVs in academic basic science in a biomedical field, right now the situation is that the woman gets quite a considerable amount of advantage, at least initially, in securing a first tenure-track position. This is similar to the same kind of advantage afforded a minority scientist. To the extent that the community is addressing some of the biases by enforcing "affirmative action" of sorts, the system is, in my opinion as a male scientist, going in the right direction. However, sadly many people are not as "tolerant"--men and women alike--I heard recently comments directed at a male black professor from a few female professors--"oh he's actually an idiot, just a minority hire." Such is the reality of affirmative action, as much as you hate it, you might just have to deal with it.

The same can be said about a few medical specialties dominated by men, such as urology, radiology and orthopedic surgery. These programs often heavily recruit the few strong female applicants in a particular year.

There is a nice article in the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/ about this as well. In fact women have already dominated the GDP in lower socioeconomic strata for 30-50 years. While I'm not saying that the biases in the upper strata are excusable, I do think there needs to be more empathy, and less anger, especially in the extremely competitive scientific community, for the overpopulation of socially ******ed men who are not able to find jobs elsewhere, and at least more understanding of their bitterness when their last corner of legitimacy in our society--physics and math and engineering--is inevitably invaded. Does society not have a greater stigma against men who take women's jobs? Women who aspire for "men's jobs" are considered empowered and enlightened. Men who try to take women's jobs are sissies, and despised by both men and women, unless they are gay. How many professional women are willing to date a stay-at-home dad? Why do you think there is such a disparity of marriage rates between black women and men?
 
Last edited:
Sounds like that chick is on the rag.

/I keed!!!!!!

My personal observation is that there are numerous highly respected women in science and medicine. They are a minority, and I don't think it's because "the man" is holding them down. I agree with Sloux's points, and will also state that being an MD/PhD means you will be at least 30 years old before you finish training. That means putting off having children, unless you want to extend the process or make life much more difficult for your colleagues, perhaps indefinitely. That will get many women out of the field right there. I also feel that women are often more sensitive than men when it comes to personal criticism- and in science you really need to develop thick skin. I have seen many female colleagues give up because of that.
I think it's just harder for women to get to the end of the tunnel- they have to make more sacrifices than men do, and often realize they would rather focus their energy elsewhere. But there are plenty of great women scientists out there.
 
and will also state that being an MD/PhD means you will be at least 30 years old before you finish MD/PhD training.

Fixed that for you. What's the shortest residency + fellowship one can do to become an academic? 5 years or so? So that's 35 years old by the time you're even an attending. That's advanced maternal age. 1 in 5 women are infertile by that age.

That will get many women out of the field right there.

Agreed. We need to fix the training pathway to make it more family friendly if we want to narrow the gender gap.

I think it's just harder for women to get to the end of the tunnel- they have to make more sacrifices than men do

IMO, the fact that family responsibilities are expected to fall unequally on women is wrong. This is changing among the younger generations (see: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/weekinreview/20parkerpope.html?scp=4&sq=men children&st=cse), but medicine always seems last to change.
 
Top