Interesting...

[Chibucks15]

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This is a pretty welcome email to get for our futures

AOA settles class-action lawsuit - The DO

 

[austintr]

This is a pretty welcome email to get for our futures

AOA settles class-action lawsuit - The DO

Since the AOA will no longer be the hand that feeds me in the future, I'll bite. How efficient of a group can they be if a single (relatively small) suit brings their entire process to a grinding halt? Either A) they're lying about how the suit affected them or B) they suck at being a professional organization. Or both.

 

[Chibucks15]

Since the AOA will no longer be the hand that feeds me in the future, I'll bite. How efficient of a group can they be if a single (relatively small) suit brings their entire process to a grinding halt? Either A) they're lying about how the suit affected them or B) they suck at being a professional organization. Or both.

I'm leaning towards both. If a 4 person class action suit can lead to this much change there has to be something up

 

[Goro]

This is a pretty welcome email to get for our futures

AOA settles class-action lawsuit - The DO

"The plaintiffs’ attorneys, Philadelphia-based Duane Morris, LLP, will receive fees and costs in an amount not to exceed $2,617,000. Monetary awards of $15,000 each were granted only to the four original plaintiffs—Albert Talone, DO, Craig Wax, DO, Richard Renza, DO, and Roy Stoller, DO—and will be paid out of the Duane Morris attorneys’ fees. There is no other monetary settlement."

This is one of those (very temporarily) events that make me ask "are we in the wrong profession?"

OK, I feel better now.


Since the AOA will no longer be the hand that feeds me in the future, I'll bite. How efficient of a group can they be if a single (relatively small) suit brings their entire process to a grinding halt? Either A) they're lying about how the suit affected them or B) they suck at being a professional organization. Or both.

Or the AOA has lousy lawyers!

 

[HotLunch96]

"The plaintiffs’ attorneys, Philadelphia-based Duane Morris, LLP, will receive fees and costs in an amount not to exceed $2,617,000. Monetary awards of $15,000 each were granted only to the four original plaintiffs—Albert Talone, DO, Craig Wax, DO, Richard Renza, DO, and Roy Stoller, DO—and will be paid out of the Duane Morris attorneys’ fees. There is no other monetary settlement."

This is one of those (very temporarily) events that make me ask "are we in the wrong profession?"

OK, I feel better now.


Since the AOA will no longer be the hand that feeds me in the future, I'll bite. How efficient of a group can they be if a single (relatively small) suit brings their entire process to a grinding halt? Either A) they're lying about how the suit affected them or B) they suck at being a professional organization. Or both.

Or the AOA has lousy lawyers!

$15,000 each? lol the plaintiffs got screwed. Will be interesting to see what effect the decrease in member dues will have on the AOA's balance sheet.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

AOA probably didn't want more info coming out on how they run this joint. I hear 'thats just how it is' or 'our hands were tied' doesn't hold up well in court.

$15,000 each? lol the plaintiffs got screwed. Will be interesting to see what effect the decrease in member dues will have on the AOA's balance sheet.

They have effectively replaced it mostly with COCA dues.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Don’t give a damn bc AOA will be nonexisted in 10 years. Yay to the merger.

 

[heychloe]

good to know that lawsuits actually brings change to AOA. We should sue to abolish the comlex and transition to usmle+opp. What an embarassing organization to be associated with.

 

[zero0]

good to know that lawsuits actually brings change to AOA. We should sue to abolish the comlex and transition to usmle+opp. What an embarassing organization to be associated with.

We'll get there eventually. A lot of DO students, including myself, are just embarassed by the backwards way DO schools are run and the utter state of denial they live in regarding the ACGME takeover (and it is a takeover) and the growing significance of the USMLE, not to mention the ever dwindling relevance of the AOA and the utility of OMM.

Fortunately, the one thing the AOA has going for it is that it's not as powerful as the AMA and easier to fight.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Make OMM an elective possibility and slash the COMLEX from the requirement. It's embarrassing when the USMLE deems a DO applicant a quality student and then the COMLEX deems that same person as garbage. I pass my COMLEX with a mediocre score but I can't imagine how angry and frustrated I would be with a failed Comlex score and a decent USMLE score. The thing is that a failed Comlex score and a decent USMLE score is becoming more of a common theme nowadays, in which the NBOME has revamped their Q-bank by incorporating more stupid quests from drunken test writers.

 

[wdoc]

Make OMM an elective possibility and slash the COMLEX from the requirement. It's embarrassing when the USMLE deems a DO applicant a quality student and then the COMLEX deems that same person as garbage. I pass my COMLEX with a mediocre score but I can't imagine how angry and frustrated I would be with a failed Comlex score and a decent USMLE score. The thing is that a failed Comlex score and a decent USMLE score is becoming more of a common theme nowadays, in which the NBOME has revamped their Q-bank by incorporating more stupid quests from drunken test writers.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but the data I've seen would suggest that people tend to score lower on USMLE when compared to COMLEX percentile wise. This may be due to the fact that we have OMM based questions (that are essentially free points if paid attention at all during the first 2 years of school), and because the USMLE is a more difficult test. There is never going to be a time where OMM becomes an elective - how would that be any different from an MD school that has CME events for manipulation??

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but the data I've seen would suggest that people tend to score lower on USMLE when compared to COMLEX percentile wise. This may be due to the fact that we have OMM based questions (that are essentially free points if paid attention at all during the first 2 years of school), and because the USMLE is a more difficult test. There is never going to be a time where OMM becomes an elective - how would that be any different from an MD school that has CME events for manipulation??

Not going to argue with you. But, this seems to be the pattern for this year especially with the NBOME trying to make their exams harder to stay relevant and a revamp of the USMLE Q-bank.

Finally, OMM becoming an elective is def a discussion for my school behind close doors.

90% of DO students think OMM is straight up trash.

It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not. That's the prevalent theme among my classmates. My feeling is that OMM will be cut out of the curriculum in the future. It doesn't matter what current physicians or the old guards think. The future DO physicians have very low opinion of OMM, NBOME, and the COMLEX.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

“Unfortunately, the timing of this litigation prevented AOA from moving forward with decoupling and halted progress on several initiatives in membership and board certification,”

Anybody else get the feeling that this is a straight up fabrication?

 

[hallowmann]

Anybody else get the feeling that this is a straight up fabrication?

I could buy that open litigation on a practice would prevent the practice from changing. If you change it mid-litigation, you're kind of admitting that you did something wrong.

Now what I question is whether the decision to de-couple actually came before anyone caught wind of an impending lawsuit. It might be before the lawsuit was officially filed, but I suspect they knew it was coming and they were trying to get ahead of it.

 

[alprazoslam]

"The plaintiffs’ attorneys, Philadelphia-based Duane Morris, LLP, will receive fees and costs in an amount not to exceed $2,617,000. Monetary awards of $15,000 each were granted only to the four original plaintiffs—Albert Talone, DO, Craig Wax, DO, Richard Renza, DO, and Roy Stoller, DO—and will be paid out of the Duane Morris attorneys’ fees. There is no other monetary settlement."

This is one of those (very temporarily) events that make me ask "are we in the wrong profession?"

OK, I feel better now.


Since the AOA will no longer be the hand that feeds me in the future, I'll bite. How efficient of a group can they be if a single (relatively small) suit brings their entire process to a grinding halt? Either A) they're lying about how the suit affected them or B) they suck at being a professional organization. Or both.

Or the AOA has lousy lawyers!

The worst part is the AOA tried to play victim here. But it is 2018 and thats the new cool thing to do. I am glad the merger is happening hopefully all AOAness will get absorbed/abolished in the sometime near future, along with COMLEX, required OMM, and non alcoholic beverages.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Some truth. The AOA was kicked out of the ACGME several years ago when 500 allopathic students didn't match after the scramble. Donors and alumni were outraged their students,children, did not match after the scramble. Since the AOA counted on ACGME taking so many of their students, they didn't have the approved residency capacity to meet the needs of all of their graduates. They got caught with their knickers down. So they took the politically expedient route and agreed to the merger. Now, DO students have to compete with the same people they competed with trying to get into allopathic school,(taking MCAT), for residencies, i.e., taking the USMLE. How do you think that will turn out? Yup, D O's will continue to dominate family medicine and primary care specialties. It is not the fault of the COM's but fault of the applicant when they dont match in the specialty of their choice. This is why I am no longer a member of the AOA. Students need to realize what they are up against and work as hard as possible to become the best candidate

 

[alprazoslam]

Some truth. The AOA was kicked out of the ACGME several years ago when 500 allopathic students didn't match after the scramble. Donors and alumni were outraged their students,children, did not match after the scramble. Since the AOA counted on ACGME taking so many of their students, they didn't have the approved residency capacity to meet the needs of all of their graduates. They got caught with their knickers down. So they took the politically expedient route and agreed to the merger. Now, DO students have to compete with the same people they competed with trying to get into allopathic school,(taking MCAT), for residencies, i.e., taking the USMLE. How do you think that will turn out? Yup, D O's will continue to dominate family medicine and primary care specialties. It is not the fault of the COM's but fault of the applicant when they dont match in the specialty of their choice. This is why I am no longer a member of the AOA. Students need to realize what they are up against and work as hard as possible to become the best candidate

To a point but having to deal w omm and other road blocks of do schools pushes some of the blame onto the schools. But it is true usually md applicants are stronger test takers and a lot of people in the bottom quintile of do schools would do poorly even if granted a free trip to an Ivy League

 

[group_theory]

Some truth. The AOA was kicked out of the ACGME several years ago when 500 allopathic students didn't match after the scramble. Donors and alumni were outraged their students,children, did not match after the scramble. Since the AOA counted on ACGME taking so many of their students, they didn't have the approved residency capacity to meet the needs of all of their graduates. They got caught with their knickers down. So they took the politically expedient route and agreed to the merger.

Actually,the merger happened when the ACGME proposed changes in the rules on who can qualify for ACGME fellowship, and as a consequences of the changes, would have kept DOs in AOA residencies out of ACGME residencies and fellowships. So a PGY1 AOA transition year intern couldn't advanced an ACGME residency, or an AOA residency graduate couldn't do an ACGME fellowship*

It was never the intention of the ACGME to freeze out the AOA - so they met, failed to agree, continue to meet, and finally agreed to the merger

Check out these links - blast from the past

ACGME Brings the Hammer Down on the AOA

ACGME response to failed merger

Enjoy reading them. But please, for the sake of internet etiquette (netiquette), don't raise the long dead threads. Thanks.


*technically the AOA residency graduate won't be ABMS board eligible despite finishing ACGME fellowship, but they coulld be AOA board eligible via Res 56