Interinstitutional MD/PhD

[mercaptovizadeh]

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There has been a lot of talk about Harvard's and MIT's collaborative program, including for MSTP - MD/PhD students. I was wondering if there are similar (strong) collaborations in other places that would enable doing an MD at one place and a PhD at the other, as part of the MSTP.

For example, collaborations between UCSF and Berkeley, UCLA and Cal-Tech, Pittsburgh Medical and Carnegie Mellon, a U Texas at Houston and Rice, etc.

Do these collaborations officially exist? If they don't, does anyone know about the flexibility of these programs and their liability to be willing to work with an MD/PhD student wanting to pursue degrees at both institutions?

 

[clockitnow]

UCSF and Berkeley do not have any allowed collaborations in the MSTP program except for medical anthropology. I am very sure, but you can call their office to double check.

 

[freddytn]

Other official collaborations that I know about are:
U. of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon University
Baylor College of Medicine and Rice University (i think only for BioE)
Cornell / Rockefeller / Sloan Kettering Tri-Institutional Program.
the Harvard / MIT program mentioned already

 

[tedrik]

Emory also collaborates with Georgia Tech and the CDC

 

[Fermata]

Emory also collaborates with Georgia Tech and the CDC

The CDC?

That's sweet.

 

[Dj neema]

Carnegie Mellon/U Pitt
Baylor/Rice
Harvard/MIT
UCLA/Cal Tech
There is no UCSF Berkeley connection to my knowledge.

Interesting as they're all med schools and engineering and technical schools.

 

[Vader]

You are correct that there is currently no official UCSF-Berkeley connection in term of the Medical Scientist Training Program.

However, there is a connection in the UC Berkeley-UCSF Joint Medical Program, which in which students earn the MD and Masters degrees.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Thanks guys; I e-mailed the UCSF admissions office and they said that they do not have a connection with Berkeley.

 

[uproarhz]

I think when I was at UPenn I heard someone mention that in rare cases people can do their PhD at NIH. Apparently it happened to one student who wanted to do something that was only being done there. So I'm pretty sure there is no direct connection, but it can be done. I thought that was interesting.

There has been a lot of talk about Harvard's and MIT's collaborative program, including for MSTP - MD/PhD students. I was wondering if there are similar (strong) collaborations in other places that would enable doing an MD at one place and a PhD at the other, as part of the MSTP.

For example, collaborations between UCSF and Berkeley, UCLA and Cal-Tech, Pittsburgh Medical and Carnegie Mellon, a U Texas at Houston and Rice, etc.

Do these collaborations officially exist? If they don't, does anyone know about the flexibility of these programs and their liability to be willing to work with an MD/PhD student wanting to pursue degrees at both institutions?

 

[xanthines]

I believe there is also a strong relationship with ACS (american cancer society).

-X

Emory also collaborates with Georgia Tech and the CDC

 

[Mitro]

I believe there is also a strong relationship with ACS (american cancer society).

-X

Besides epidemiology (I'm just assuming they do some), does the ACS actually do any research?

 

[tedrik]

I think when I was at UPenn I heard someone mention that in rare cases people can do their PhD at NIH. Apparently it happened to one student who wanted to do something that was only being done there. So I'm pretty sure there is no direct connection, but it can be done. I thought that was interesting.

After reading this I remembered hearing the same thing while I was at NYU. I remember some grad students saying that there was a new program where you could do your PhD at the NIH, but it was not available for all PhDs. If NYU and the NIH sound like places you would like to look into, you should email Arlene Kohler at NYU to find out which grad program allows this.

 

[uproarhz]

Good to know. Thanks for the correction. Who ever who told me this must have been under-informed about it. But she was an MD/PhD student in Immuno. It seems like in general the Immuno program there pulls more strings. I'm curious to know why that is. For example they said in the Immuno program you can do you three lab rotations in the same lab, and also your thesis defense can be on your actual project where as in other tracks it has to be something completely unrelated. I know this is off topic on this thread, but I was just curious to know why the Immuno track there has it's own rules?

That's very rare here. It happened slightly more in the past under the old director, as Skip has only been the director for I think 4 or 5 years now. The current MD/PhD administration is very vocal about not letting students leave the institution for graduate school work if at all possible. The Immunology PhD program does allow students to do their PhDs at the NIH, HOWEVER this program is not available for MD/PhDs. I would highly recommend that applicants not think that UPenn even rarely allows MD/PhD students to go to the NIH, as that might set you up for disappointment.

I wonder if a similar scenario exists at NYU.

 

[SysBio]

I wanted to bring this thread back up since I had the same question....

two people have listed some schools that collaborate with their MD and PhD programs

its a good list but posted about 4 years ago.....does anyone know of any others?

Thanks

Other official collaborations that I know about are:
U. of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon University
Baylor College of Medicine and Rice University (i think only for BioE)
Cornell / Rockefeller / Sloan Kettering Tri-Institutional Program.
the Harvard / MIT program mentioned already

Carnegie Mellon/U Pitt
Baylor/Rice
Harvard/MIT
UCLA/Cal Tech
There is no UCSF Berkeley connection to my knowledge.

Interesting as they're all med schools and engineering and technical schools.

 

[syphon559]

The NIH partnership referred to above is detailed here:
http://gpp.nih.gov/Prospective/InstitutionalPartnerships/MSTPatNIH/
There are a couple different paths, but in general you do you medical degree at a university and a collaborative PhD between groups at the NIH and your university. I haven't looked into it, but they do mention something about UPenn's immunology program participating.

BTW, the guy in charge of the NIH MSTP-GPP program is a UPenn immunology MSTP grad himself, which might explain how that got set up.

 

[SysBio]

Someone also mentioned:

Emory also collaborates with Georgia Tech and the CDC

 

[crickster]

U-Chicago and Janelia Farm?

UCSD and Scripps Research Insitute (TSRI)

 

[sunshine8i8]

USC and Caltech as well
UCSD has associations with many institutes in La Jolla (TSRI, Burnham, Scripps Oceanography are among the few)

edit: also, SUNY Stony Brook with Cold Spring Harbor Labs

 

[Neuronix]

I haven't looked into it, but they do mention something about UPenn's immunology program participating.

It's very rare and only possible in a few labs within Immunology. Penn very much tries to keep their MD/PhD students there if possible.

Edit: Someone challenged me on this post by PM, so I will post what I had to say to that person.

It's geared more towards PhD students than MD/PhD students. You know, there was someone else who challenged me on this a few years ago, sent an e-mail to the director, and then came back and told me I was right. When I started at Penn this was completely forbidden. See: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=73645 pathdr2b later inquired herself and found the same response. This was a PhD ONLY program. I've heard that they have loosened a little. I think a student rotated in an Immuno lab that ended up moving to the NIH and they allowed the MD/PhD student to do it. It has become: Ok, you really want to do this kind of research in this particular lab at the NIH that we don't have at Penn. But the reality is, if you can possibly do the kind of work you want to do at Penn they will encourage you to do it at Penn. I wonder how many MD/PhD students total in the history of the school have participated in this program... 1? 2?

I said it was rare. I don't want students to come to Penn thinking they can do that program easily. I've met several who were very disappointed when they found out it was not common and discouraged for MD/PhD students. Similarly, Penn also completely forbids the GPP. If I said anything else I'd be lying. I could have said nothing at all, but why would I say nothing? This is something I've been following for years.

Indeed. I am being careful. I've discussed this with the director and assistant director on several occasions. What anecdotes or information do you have to tell me that I'm wrong? Have you talked to the director? I encourage you to send an e-mail to Skip or Maggie yourself and see what they have to say about it. If they've told you it's an open possibility and you're welcome to come to Penn and persue it, I would be very surprised and it would represent a huge shift in opinion over the last year. I'm here doing the best I can on the things I know about and with the data I have. If you want to call me on it, do it in public. I don't see why you needed to send me a PM to flame me.

 

[themudphud]

The Cornell Tri-institutional program (Cornell--Memorial Sloan Kettering--Rockefeller) is pretty awesome. Or at least, it was when I was interviewing about 8 years ago. I was really close to going there. The research is awesome--in particular at "the Rock" and folks who were running the program were awesome. I don't know if the latter is still true but you should definitely check it out.

Someone mentioned UPenn above--I don't know anything about combined programs with Penn--but I just wanted to take this chance to say that I think the staff (director and administrators) are really nice and in themselves a good reason to check out the Penn program. I also almost went there. They're really great.

 

[JHopRevisit]

The Cornell Tri-institutional program (Cornell--Memorial Sloan Kettering--Rockefeller) is pretty awesome.

It still is. In my field, at least, a number of groups are really churning out great work, and I have a good friend there who seems happy. Great program to consider.