International Experiences in Personal Statement

[sk8ngli]

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I know I've read variations of this question in previous posts, but I can't find it through a search. I would like more opinions if possible.

We all know that pre-meds get away with a lot more while in other countries. Scrubbing in on surgeries, sutures, etc...

I'm editing an essay that says that the applicant's supervising doctor asked the person to take a man off life support. That this applicant was the one who physically removed the ventilator and shut down the machines. I'm pretty sure that's not legal in this country, but if the physicians in another country let you, then you go ahead and do it.

I know pre-meds remove sutures and scrub in on surgeries and various other thigns. But it sounds weird that some 19-20 year old American kid is physically removing a person from life support. Who should be doing it? The physician, a nurse, even a tech? But a "shadowing" American pre-med student? Does it come off as weird to anyone else?

(Also, if you're reading this post, R., sorry. I just needed some advice)

 

[NickNaylor]

That sounds extremely strange and dubious at best. I would absolutely leave that out. This isn't like measuring blood pressure or giving a vaccine.

 

[sk8ngli]

Right. That's what I thought.

I'll be honest. I don't actually know who does shut the machines off in this country, but I'm pretty sure it's not pre-meds who are just shadowing. Does anyone know?

I know this is a pretty emotional experience for her, but I'm really not comfortable with it the way it is in the PS.

 

[Mithril]

Probably the attending physician who does it.

If I did something like that I wouldn't put it on my PS. It makes me seem like a legal liability.

 

[music2doc]

Probably the attending physician who does it.

If I did something like that I wouldn't put it on my PS. It makes me seem like a legal liability.

Agreed.

I've had physicians ask me to do things beyond my level of training (I'm an EMT-IV) in "grey" settings (abroad, free clinics, etc.). Some things I'll do (e.g., pass the physician's education on when/how to take a medication after receiving instructions from the doc and repeating them back for clarification as well as writing them down or having the doc write them down) but anything having to do w/ direct pt care (including removal from life support, mixing medications I am not certified for, giving injections beyond my own scope, performing an assessment or procedure for which I have not been properly trained, etc.) is a definite no-no. At least in my experience, docs tend not to know the limits of their healthcare workers (e.g., MAs, EMTs, LPNs, RNs) and so it really is up to you to know your scope of practice and be comfortable saying "no" or finding someone else who can do it for you. To me, that girl's actions would come up as a big potential liability because it says she has not developed that internal "yellow/red light" and simply does what she is asked without considering the implications (or possible implications). I think if I had a volunteer tell me that story while I was training him/her to work in our clinical area, it would probably make my very uneasy about actually letting the individual work with pts in the future (especially unsupervised).

In the case of life support, I believe in the States a critical care RN can remove a pt from life support under direct orders from the attending physician, but I could be wrong. It probably depends upon the state and the individual hospital's policies as well as other situational factors.

 

[CodeBlu]

Yikes!

As emotional as this is for the person who's PS you're revising...

Leave it out. As others mentioned, it's probably not something she wants to highlight.

 

[waterpolo480586]

I would definately leave it out. The only thing that could accomplish is to raise a huge red flag.

 

[NickNaylor]

Just in case there was any doubt, here's the opinion of Michigan's director of admissions (from Twitter). It very well may have been in response to this thread - he reads SDN at least occasionally.

"I'm (deeply) troubled when I read apps that recount clinical work done abroad that one isn't trained to do=unethical=rejection."

 

[Web MD]

If the applicant was a 20 year old med student from honduras or nicaragua then that would be totally acceptable. But since they're not, it's not

 

[paul411]

... Michigan's director of admissions (from Twitter). It very well may have been in response to this thread - he reads SDN at least occasionally.

Kinda cool but weird.

 

[sk8ngli]

Just in case there was any doubt, here's the opinion of Michigan's director of admissions (from Twitter). It very well may have been in response to this thread - he reads SDN at least occasionally.

"I'm (deeply) troubled when I read apps that recount clinical work done abroad that one isn't trained to do=unethical=rejection."

Eep! I'm going to have to be a little more forceful with her when I suggest she take it out. Thanks so much for your help SDN. This is exactly why you're great.

 

[sk8ngli]

Also, does the phrase "scrubbing in for surgeries" imply that you are doing something in that surgery or that you scrubbed so that you could watch?

Based on her description, I can't tell if it means they let her help or she was just clean when she observed. Does that sound like another "red flag" phrase?

 

[NickNaylor]

Also, does the phrase "scrubbing in for surgeries" imply that you are doing something in that surgery or that you scrubbed so that you could watch?

Based on her description, I can't tell if it means they let her help or she was just clean when she observed. Does that sound like another "red flag" phrase?

She probably means scrubbed in to observe. Most people would probably assume that unless you said otherwise.

 

[Mithril]

Although if there are any other things that look to be unethical in that PS, maybe adcoms may take it the wrong way.

 

[NickNaylor]

Although if there are any other things that look to be unethical in that PS, maybe adcoms may take it the wrong way.

Very good point. I assumed the stuff about the ventilator would be removed.

 

[Medicine4Bruhs]

Taking the ventilator off a patient in a foreign country is definitely a good idea brah.