Intern's time sheet

[PsychologyToday1984]

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What would you do in this situation:

The other pre-doc intern is constantly late...(she comes in around 10 while everyone else comes in 8-9 latest). We have a certain amount of hours that we have to be there each week, and I always wondered how she met that weekly requirement, as she comes late and leaves on time. I saw her time-sheet today when we had to submit it. She reported that she comes in each day at 8AM. I don't know if I should report it or keep it to myself. We had to go through a training where we were told that falsifying our time sheets is a huge offense. Anyways, thoughts? I don't want to get her in trouble but I also don't think it's ethical for her to record the incorrect times.

 

[cara susanna]

When it comes to ethical violations, I think we're generally encouraged to try to resolve it with the person in question first. Then, if that doesn't go anywhere, that's when you consider taking it to the next level of authority. So, I think I'd try to do that.

 

[AppsAintNoThang]

When it comes to ethical violations, I think we're generally encouraged to try to resolve it with the person in question first. Then, if that doesn't go anywhere, that's when you consider taking it to the next level of authority. So, I think I'd try to do that.

It seems like the risk here is that you damage the relationship with a peer for the rest of the year. After all, if they kept doing the same thing after you brought it up, you'd have to bring it up to your supervisor, and they'd know it was you. So just keep that in mind as you go forward, in that it's important to bring up to her in a gentle, non accusatory way. She may have a very reasonable explanation for it (supervision or notes in another location, or some other agreement with a supervisor).

 

[empathiosis]

It's also possible that she has an accommodation, for a sleep disorder or something else that she would not necessarily want to disclose.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

It's also possible that she has an accommodation, for a sleep disorder or something else that she would not necessarily want to disclose.

Very possible, although in that case, I'd be surprised if they're still able to grant her two hours of time she's not physically on site. Rather, I'd see it more along the lines of allowing for a different work schedule (e.g., 10-6:30).

 

[PsychologyToday1984]

Very possible, although in that case, I'd be surprised if they're still able to grant her two hours of time she's not physically on site. Rather, I'd see it more along the lines of allowing for a different work schedule (e.g., 10-6:30).

Well, the issue isn't really that she is coming late. We are allowed to come at 10-7 etc. She does work late. That's not an issue. The issue is that she marks her time sheet as coming in at 8, and leaving at 6 or 7. We have the ability to come in at different times, but we need to record the hours that we step in the door and leave. I like working in the mornings, so I am the first one there, and there is no way she has ever come in at 8-9, but she still marks it. I don't want to hurt our relationship but it also bugs me!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Have you talked about it w her?

 

[Pragma]

I guess one question is - why were you looking at her timesheet? You should generally operate under the assumption that your supervisor has worked out the details with her. If it continues to be a concern of yours, you probably should just ask her about it. You could discuss it with your supervisor as well if you think it matters, but it might be best to get more information first.

 

[Ollie123]

Any possibility she is at another off-site location in mornings or is able to work from home? Not knowing the structure of your internship, I have no way of knowing but I think its worth considering in this conversation. That said, I'd probably find some way to talk to her about it if it is bothering you that much. It may be something benign like the above, it may be something a supervisor told her to do, etc.

As somewhat of a tangent, the very notion of timesheets bothers me at this level. Maybe its the academic in me, but I feel like by the internship stage everyone really should be well past the clock-in/clock-out stage of their career. See your patients. Get #$&! done. Don't make people sit around twiddling their thumbs just because they are on-shift (aside from obvious exceptions like if its a consult-based practice, covering a psych ED admissions, etc.). Note that this is in no way an endorsement of fraudulently filling out timesheets (if the expectation is that they be done accurately - do them accurately). The very idea of timesheets just seems inappropriate to me.

 

[Pragma]

As somewhat of a tangent, the very notion of timesheets bothers me at this level. Maybe its the academic in me, but I feel like by the internship stage everyone really should be well past the clock-in/clock-out stage of their career. See your patients. Get #$&! done. Don't make people sit around twiddling their thumbs just because they are on-shift (aside from obvious exceptions like if its a consult-based practice, covering a psych ED admissions, etc.). Note that this is in no way an endorsement of fraudulently filling out timesheets (if the expectation is that they be done accurately - do them accurately). The very idea of timesheets just seems inappropriate to me.

Wow, your are crushing the spirit of the beancounters and aspiring beancounters of the world!

It makes sense if you are an hourly employee. I do have to fill out a timesheet at my university, but it essentially is just acknowledging whether I took any leave or not. It's annoying, but some beancounter auditor somewhere might care someday.

I generally agree with you - a salaried employee should get their job done and that's that. But on some level, a timesheet could also be a mechanism for protecting yourself from being expected to work way too much. I think there are plenty of us that have the mentality that we work a lot anyways, and we just get the job done that needs to happen.

I actually think being paid hourly would pay off reaaaaal nicely.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

As somewhat of a tangent, the very notion of timesheets bothers me at this level. Maybe its the academic in me, but I feel like by the internship stage everyone really should be well past the clock-in/clock-out stage of their career. See your patients. Get #$&! done.

It was a VA requirement when I completed my internship (another random requirement by the gov't). I agree w the spirit of your post though.

 

[Ollie123]

Obviously for hourly employees it makes sense - I just rarely see that in our field aside from consulting gigs and things like that. I suppose I do see how timesheets could provide some level of protection, but I'd rather just skip it entirely. I come and go as I please, work from wherever I want to if I'm not seeing patients and I think I'd get a funny look if I asked to come in 30 minutes late because of a dentist appointment (or a "Never bother me with crap like that again").

I suppose it makes sense to document leave, though I feel like most academic settings (and increasing numbers of industry jobs - including my wife's) essentially operate on a discretionary leave policy even if something else is on the books.

Sorry for the derailment!

 

[erg923]

As somewhat of a tangent, the very notion of timesheets bothers me at this level. Maybe its the academic in me, but I feel like by the internship stage everyone really should be well past the clock-in/clock-out stage of their career. See your patients. Get #$&! done. Don't make people sit around twiddling their thumbs just because they are on-shift (aside from obvious exceptions like if its a consult-based practice, covering a psych ED admissions, etc.). Note that this is in no way an endorsement of fraudulently filling out timesheets (if the expectation is that they be done accurately - do them accurately). The very idea of timesheets just seems inappropriate to me.

4Words: Department of Veterans Affairs

 

[smalltownpsych]

Two points. First, it does not sound like the type of APA ethics code violation that I would concern myself with. If I am not the person's boss and it isn't likely to cause harm to patients, then it's really not my business. Second, I am glad that I don't have to answer to bean counters for the hours I work. If I work, I get paid and if I don't then I don't.

 

[erg923]

My first thought is: What's it to you?

My second thought is: no one likes a tattle tale.

My third is: Good for her for sticking it to the man.

When to leave work "on time" is known as "to erg it out of the building", these comments should not come as a surprise.

 

[PsychologyToday1984]

I'm not going to do anything about it. I am not going to bring it up to her nor am I going to tell anyone. I don't know why it bothers me...I guess i'm a stickler to the rules type of person so I just felt irritated by it.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

If you shared patients/responsibilities, then I'd consider saying something bc it'd be unfair to work more bc of her.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I'm not going to do anything about it. I am not going to bring it up to her nor am I going to tell anyone. I don't know why it bothers me...I guess i'm a stickler to the rules type of person so I just felt irritated by it.

One of my pet peeves are therapists (IME psychologists are usually pretty good about this) who aren't punctual and make patients wait. Another is the ones who are chronically behind on paperwork and visibly stressed out. My thought is, "if you can't even do your friggin' job well, how are you going to help patients improve their functioning?" It really bothered me when I was working in settings where productivity didn't matter because they didn't have nearly the case load that I had. They were just spinning their wheels a lot. These days, not so peeved cause I get paid more for the hard work and efficiency and still have time to drop a line or two on SDN. 😀