"Internships" vs. "APA-accredited internships"

[cmd0618]

Alright guys, since I've joined this site, one of the things I've noticed that seems to be of paramount importance to PhD/PsyD students is making sure that your internship is APA-accredited. Which obviously I'm sure means it's really good, duh! Okay yeah but the silliness aside, I've also seen some people say that if you don't get an APA-accredited internship, you've basically just wasted your however-many years in grad school. As an undergrad psychology major, soon to be graduating, this is something I've never heard before, and to be honest, it really surprised me.

So I want to know, is this actually true? The school I was thinking about going to requires its students to complete internships, but of those, it seemed like less than 10% of them were APA-accredited (not surprisingly, it's a professional school, a.k.a. a BUSINESS... not a school I'd normally consider but am thinking of doing so because I think getting in would be feasible, and its proximity to my house.) I understand if you're getting a job that they might expect that from you, but what if you just plan on working in private practice?

As you can probably tell I've been able to get little information in school. So yeah guys, help me!

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[PerhapsMaybeOk]

Alright guys, since I've joined this site, one of the things I've noticed that seems to be of paramount importance to PhD/PsyD students is making sure that your internship is APA-accredited. Which obviously I'm sure means it's really good, duh! Okay yeah but the silliness aside, I've also seen some people say that if you don't get an APA-accredited internship, you've basically just wasted your however-many years in grad school. As an undergrad psychology major, soon to be graduating, this is something I've never heard before, and to be honest, it really surprised me.

So I want to know, is this actually true? The school I was thinking about going to requires its students to complete internships, but of those, it seemed like less than 10% of them were APA-accredited (not surprisingly, it's a professional school, a.k.a. a BUSINESS... not a school I'd normally consider but am thinking of doing so because I think getting in would be feasible, and its proximity to my house.) I understand if you're getting a job that they might expect that from you, but what if you just plan on working in private practice?

As you can probably tell I've been able to get little information in school. So yeah guys, help me!

The simple rule of thumb is: 100% definately go to an APA accredited program and do an APA accredited internship if you can. Almost every decent job posting I've seen within the last 5 years has had those two standards as requirements of potential applicants.

 

[2012PhD]

Alright guys, since I've joined this site, one of the things I've noticed that seems to be of paramount importance to PhD/PsyD students is making sure that your internship is APA-accredited. Which obviously I'm sure means it's really good, duh! Okay yeah but the silliness aside, I've also seen some people say that if you don't get an APA-accredited internship, you've basically just wasted your however-many years in grad school. As an undergrad psychology major, soon to be graduating, this is something I've never heard before, and to be honest, it really surprised me.

So I want to know, is this actually true? The school I was thinking about going to requires its students to complete internships, but of those, it seemed like less than 10% of them were APA-accredited (not surprisingly, it's a professional school, a.k.a. a BUSINESS... not a school I'd normally consider but am thinking of doing so because I think getting in would be feasible, and its proximity to my house.) I understand if you're getting a job that they might expect that from you, but what if you just plan on working in private practice?

As you can probably tell I've been able to get little information in school. So yeah guys, help me!

There is alot of confusing information out there. I wouldn't trust the professional schools to give you accurate info nor would i trust professors who are out of touch with the field.

You can do an unaccredited internship and still get a private practice, but not in every state and there are risks that you may never get licensed in some states. After you graduate, in order to have a private practice, you will need to accrue 3,000 hours for licensure (this includes internship hours). First off, several states require an apa internship for licensure. Secondly, the easiest way to get your hours is via a post-doc or employment setting that provides supervision. If you don't do an apa internship = very hard to land an employment position to give you those hours and supervision. I am looking at post-doc positions for licensure and about 80% of them require an apa internship. Thirdly, some states have very stringent licensure requirements and change their requirements so APA internship would provide you with the safest bet that you will be able to get licensed in the future.

Given the current surplus of psychologists, many states are becoming more stringent with licensure. For example, NJ and CA require 4 hours of supervision per week before licensure and many other states require that your internship has to be approved or meet certain guidelines if its not approved. Basically if you do an unaccredited internship, you will either be denied licensure in some states, have to show proof that your internship met certain guidelines, and you will have a tough time securing an employment position if you ever need one. No licensure= no private practice.

If you look at all the posts on this forum, you will see that the field is in an uncertain time and its important to be flexible. Limiting your options from the onset is a pretty bad place to start in a fiercly competitive field.

 

[2012PhD]

Another thing to consider. Many unaccredited internships, like CAPIC, are unpaid. If you are going to a professional school, you will be taking out 150-200K in loans, then more loans for internship year.

You don't want to end up 200K in debt and not be able to get licensed or take an unpaid internship. You will be worse off with 200K in debt then with your BA degree, in my opinion.

Also, people with geographic restrictions don't do well in doctoral training. You have to be willing to move for internship and post-doc year in order to secure those hours for licensure.

 

[KillerDiller]

2012PhD makes some good points about the difficulties of getting licensed without an accredited internship. I just thought I'd mention that even if you do get licensed, the troubles don't end there. Say you go into private practice. How are your clients going to be paying? If you are expecting clients to pay cash out of pocket, why should they go to you? As a newly licensed clinician, you are unlikely to have built up a reputation sufficient to take only these private-pay clients. People who are spending $150 or so per session want to go to someone who comes highly recommended.

So, since you won't have a ready-made client base, you will have to rely on referrals from physicians and other healthcare professionals. Why should they refer to you, though? People can be picky about who they refer to and several may not be willing to refer to a therapist who did not achieve the standard of training in the field (I wouldn't).

Ok, let's say you forget private-pay clients and focus on those with insurance coverage. In this case, you will have to get on insurance panels, which also weigh credentials in their decisions as to who to send clients to.

As others have said, why handicap your career from the outset? Doctoral training is a long, long commitment. Don't sacrifice for the sake of temporary convenience.

 

[2012PhD]

If you don't have the grades or geographic flexiblity to attend a reputable program with good outcomes (i am making assumptions here), you can attend an MSW program from an actual university and take out significantly less in loans. You can do a private practice as an MSW and get licensed with that degree. There is no internship hassle either.

It looks better to go to an MSW program from a recognizable university then a PsyD from a devry like institution.

 

[cmd0618]

Wow, so many replies came so quickly! Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I think I understand it a little better now.

2012 - I think in my state (Massachusetts) you can work in a private practice without an APA-accredited internship, not completely sure though. I'll have to look more into that. I do plan on staying here, but I hope you know I'm very willing to relocate temporarily if need be (and is often the case when applying to grad schools!) The reason I wanted to stay closer to home was because I could save money by living with my parents - obviously money is always an issue. Though I am currently at home for the summer and this arrangement really isn't working... so yeah we'll see what happens.

And yes, I'm glad you mentioned the MSW, since grades are a problem right now. I'm working hard on them, though. The only thing that bothers me there is the money. Not that I want/expect to be rich as a psychologist (yeah, like that'd happen...) but I feel like I'd at least be able to live comfortably, which is difficult as a social worker/MFT. If that were the case I'd probably transfer to a doctoral program when I was done.

KillerDiller - That makes sense, though I wasn't aware how much your internship was public knowledge. Though I probably should have guessed that. I swear I'm not this stupid, just misinformed!

Thanks guys.

 

[2012PhD]

Wow, so many replies came so quickly! Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I think I understand it a little better now.

2012 - I think in my state (Massachusetts) you can work in a private practice without an APA-accredited internship, not completely sure though. I'll have to look more into that. I do plan on staying here, but I hope you know I'm very willing to relocate temporarily if need be (and is often the case when applying to grad schools!) The reason I wanted to stay closer to home was because I could save money by living with my parents - obviously money is always an issue. Though I am currently at home for the summer and this arrangement really isn't working... so yeah we'll see what happens.

And yes, I'm glad you mentioned the MSW, since grades are a problem right now. I'm working hard on them, though. The only thing that bothers me there is the money. Not that I want/expect to be rich as a psychologist (yeah, like that'd happen...) but I feel like I'd at least be able to live comfortably, which is difficult as a social worker/MFT. If that were the case I'd probably transfer to a doctoral program when I was done.

KillerDiller - That makes sense, though I wasn't aware how much your internship was public knowledge. Though I probably should have guessed that. I swear I'm not this stupid, just misinformed!

Thanks guys.

Google the masschusetts board of psychology. I am unsure whether they require an approved internship. They do require a minimum of 2.5 hours of supervision per week while on internship and post-doc so a non-apa internship may not provide those hours. Even if they don't require apa internship, you will need to get those hours before licensure and that is where apa internships matter.

Non-apa internship = automatically out of 80% of clinical post-doc positions that will provide you with supervision hours for licensure.

 

[cmd0618]

Google the masschusetts board of psychology. I am unsure whether they require an approved internship. They do require a minimum of 2.5 hours of supervision per week while on internship and post-doc so a non-apa internship may not provide those hours. Even if they don't require apa internship, you will need to get those hours before licensure and that is where apa internships matter.

Non-apa internship = automatically out of 80% of clinical post-doc positions that will provide you with supervision hours for licensure.

Well I googled, and it doesn't appear that an APA-accredited internship is required. But it did mention that such an internship is required to work in several forums. And I ended up reading a hilarious sales-pitch on the website for the school that I was *thinking* about going to regarding this subject. Basically saying that it's "easier" to have an APA-accredited internship because it "won't confuse your employers" like the internships this school offers. It also said over 90% of graduates are employed in the field of psychology (um, it's a doctoral program, I would hope so? And not "as psychologists", in the field of psychology. Wow.)

So yeah, time to look at other schools?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You should only consider doctoral programs that are based at a university, that are APA-acred., have a strong track-record of students who secure APA-acred. internships, AND have students working successfully in the niche you wish to eventually work. Competition is fierce, and there are already enough hoops to jump through.

 

[erg923]

Do you have an answer to the question of "why do only 10 percent of people from this program obtain APA internships?" I hope this is the first question that enters your mind, because it sure as heck the first one that entered mine, and I doubt I'm the only one.

An APA internship is the standard that the vast majority of student in this field strive for and the national match rate is like 70-75%. What do you think this discrepancy says about the program or those that attend the program?

 

[cmd0618]

Do you have an answer to the question of "why do only 10 percent of people from this program obtain APA internships?" I hope this is the first question that enters your mind, because it sure as heck the first one that entered mine, and I doubt I'm the only one.

An APA internship is the standard that the vast majority of student in this field strive for and the national match rate is like 70-75%. What do you think this discrepancy says about the program or those that attend the program?

Believe me, I was wondering that before I even knew what those statistics meant! It just sounded WAY too low. And the site says that they secured APA internships at about 50% rate, which is still below average I know, but I guess this means that not everyone applied for them. Which seems stupid to me, but whatever.

I have a feeling that last question was rhetorical. Jussayin.

 

[PerhapsMaybeOk]

An APA internship is the standard that the vast majority of student in this field strive for and the national match rate is like 70-75%. What do you think this discrepancy says about the program or those that attend the program?

I actually believe the match rate for APA-Accreddited internship sites is much lower. Those stats are for sites listed in the APPIC match, which are not all APA accredited. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

 

[cmd0618]

I actually believe the match rate for APA-Accreddited internship sites is much lower. Those stats are for sites listed in the APPIC match, which are not all APA accredited. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

I actually saw somewhere on here the APPIC was around 77, but the APA was around 57. Does that sound more like it to you?

I have nothing to support this other than what I've heard people say, as I'm not even completely sure what the APPIC is, so don't quote me on it.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I actually saw somewhere on here the APPIC was around 77, but the APA was around 57. Does that sound more like it to you?

I have nothing to support this other than what I've heard people say, as I'm not even completely sure what the APPIC is, so don't quote me on it.

I crunched the numbers awhile back, and that sounds about right. The Parent & Williamson paper on the internship imbalance may shed some light on the subject, though it's been awhile since I've read through it.

 

[2012PhD]

Believe me, I was wondering that before I even knew what those statistics meant! It just sounded WAY too low. And the site says that they secured APA internships at about 50% rate, which is still below average I know, but I guess this means that not everyone applied for them. Which seems stupid to me, but whatever.

I have a feeling that last question was rhetorical. Jussayin.

The school you are referring to has less than 10% apa match rate, but of those that apply APA--50% get in as they say on their website. Aside from the hurrendous match rate, it is really irresponsible and unethical for them to encourage students not to apply to APA internships since it affects their employment prospects significantly. They are doing this so they can say that X amount got an internship, even though 95% got unaccredited and unpaid ones. They clearly only care about their image.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The school you are referring to has less than 10% apa match rate, but of those that apply APA--50% get in as they say on their website. Aside from the hurrendous match rate, it is really irresponsible and unethical for them to encourage students not to apply to APA internships since it affects their employment prospects significantly. They are doing this so they can say that X amount got an internship, even though 95% got unaccredited and unpaid ones. They clearly only care about their image.

This is becoming more and more common, particularly in California because they have an "alternative" match system. It is really is problematic.

 

[cmd0618]

The school you are referring to has less than 10% apa match rate, but of those that apply APA--50% get in as they say on their website. Aside from the hurrendous match rate, it is really irresponsible and unethical for them to encourage students not to apply to APA internships since it affects their employment prospects significantly. They are doing this so they can say that X amount got an internship, even though 95% got unaccredited and unpaid ones. They clearly only care about their image.

That's exactly what I think. I just don't understand why such a small amount APPLY for an APA internship. Are they afraid that it won't pay enough? That's the only thing I can think of (which is stupid since it's only for a year anyway.)

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Probably because many of the reputable places won't even look at students that come from schools known to be degree mills. In terms of pay, anything beats having to do an unpaid internship because your credentials are shoddy.

This, and I'd likely imagine that geographic restrictions also tend to come into play more often with for-profit schools (the OP said it him/herself--the main reason the school is being considered was to stay close to home).

Just going to reiterate what others have said--given the current job market and economy as a whole, shooting yourself in the foot by attending a non-APA grad program and/or internship just isn't a smart move. Is it possible to succeed without one or both? Sure, anything is possible, but why set yourself up for the extra work and increased chances of a poor return on your degree?