Interventional Spine Procedures during Residency

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SpinALL

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Would anyone be willing to comment on if it is possible to get enough interventional experience during residency to practice without a fellowship? If so, what # of procedures did you start to feel comfortable at?

Second, regardless of the first question... Could people comment on the number of spine procedures you were able to get at specific residency programs that you are at?

Thanks!
 
I have met a few people whom have gotten jobs recently doing some interventional work without a fellowship, but A) They were usually in rural locations and B) They were usually restricted to lumbar stuff only and it was usually a only a small (<20%) part of what they were doing. They also did a lot of general MSK and even some inpatient as well depending on the job. As Dr. Lobel mentioned you will have way more opportunities if you do a fellowship and you will be competing for jobs against those that do. People from unaccredited places can even sometimes have a tougher time finding jobs in the area they want to live and and no fellowship at all will make it that much harder if you want to live in a big city. My program doesn't really teach us how to do the injections at all because they strongly feel that we should do fellowships if we are going to do pain/interventional spine. If you want to go to places that do teach a number of procedures I think Louisville and LSU had some pretty high volumes (>400) and I know people from Wisconsin, UMN, EVMS and Baylor-Dallas that were all doing in the 150-250 range. In the end there are not a ton of programs out there that teach a lot of interventional to residents, but there are some (probably more than what I listed).
 
RM38... I was under the impression Pain/Spine fellowships wanted to see your interest in residency by doing as many procedures as possible. Is this not something that fellowships will look at to determine a competitive applicant? I appreciate the information you provided on residency programs. If anyone else can add to the list of programs strong in interventional procedures, thank you in advance.
 
I know several people that never did any actual interventional procedures before starting fellowship. I have seen a few that did a bunch, but clearly weren't trained that well as they were doing trying to do things that really made no sense. I think a lot of programs want to see that you can properly evaluate patients with the different pain syndromes and that you have a good handle on the anatomy. Some experience is a plus at some places, but most places I went didn't really care. Also if they wanted me to have a ton of experience before started I would also wonder how much they are really looking to teach during the fellowship vs just have me doing a bunch of procedures for them at distant supervision. I did a few procedures at a NASS course for residents, but none on actual patients. Between Accredited and non accredited places I had well over 10 interviews. Issue of my procedure volume only came up once, and it was a non-pain trained faculty member that was interviewing me that mentioned it, so I don't know if it really mattered there at all or not. When you apply you don't submit a procedure log, so most places will have no idea how many procedures you have done before deciding to interview you or not unless they are familiar with your program. Your competitiveness will largely be determined by what program you came from, your research, quality of letters, leadership and a few other things like SAE/USMLE, other experiences, etc that matter less than the first 3-4 things.
 
When I was a resident a few years back.... had a co-resident who was chief and turned down three pain fellowships 2 pmr and one gas to go straight into practice with an ortho group in IN. He has done very well and has no regrets. He was a superior doc though and not certain would be best move for everyone.
 
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