introducing cats - advice needed!

[clouds815]

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hey guys - hoping for some advice

i adopted a 2nd cat 8-10 mo female (small, OHE, submissive) about a week ago, and already have a resident ~2 yr old (castrated early) male.

after keeping them separated for a few days to adjust, i have introduced them. he seems to be tolerating her (no growling or hissing), but is constantly following her around and swatting her, and today has taken to 'jumping' her - jumping on her back when she moves somewhere. i can't tell if he is biting her neck or not - it looks like it, but after i get to her she seems fine, no marks, however this makes me VERY nervous.

i don't know how much i should try to let them work things out, and when to intervene. should i let him do this?

perhaps anybody who has gone through a similar situation can help...?

 

[HandD42]

hey guys - hoping for some advice

i adopted a 2nd cat 8-10 mo female (small, OHE, submissive) about a week ago, and already have a resident ~2 yr old (castrated early) male.

after keeping them separated for a few days to adjust, i have introduced them. he seems to be tolerating her (no growling or hissing), but is constantly following her around and swatting her, and today has taken to 'jumping' her - jumping on her back when she moves somewhere. i can't tell if he is biting her neck or not - it looks like it, but after i get to her she seems fine, no marks, however this makes me VERY nervous.

i don't know how much i should try to let them work things out, and when to intervene. should i let him do this?

perhaps anybody who has gone through a similar situation can help...?

I had this exact same situation this winter. Found a 1 year old female stray, already had a 2 year old neutered male. It did take a long time for them to be completely at 'peace' with one another. And they still play quite rough with one another now, but I guess they are both young and pretty active.

I was also really concerned about the getting 'along' factor but it turned out fine. I think cats take much longer to get along then dogs and when I took my stray to my vet he warned me of the same thing and he was right👍

If you are really worried about it consult a vet or a behavioral specialist and get their take on it.

 

[BlacKAT33]

well the no hissing is a good sign lol the jumping is a little bit to worry about though. Until they seem completely fine with each other, i would keep them separated when you leave the house. Since one is slightly ganging up on the other, you wouldnt want something bad to happen when you are gone. I would also get a temporary 2nd litter box because they probably wouldnt be happy sharing one right now. They seem like they both need separate territories just so the new one feels welcome and the old one feels like its still his house.

I would give it a lot of time like HandD said. My cat took about a full week to get used to the dog i petsat. and even then...she would not let him touch her, she had about a 3 ft radius lol.

Just make sure you somehow discipline the one who is jumping. I mean, not aggresively of course, but push him off her with a little force and strong tone of voice so he understands that is wrong.

So really, this probably isnt new advice to you lol but ya give it time. if things don't show any progress after 2 weeks then i would worry a little bit. But the no hissing is a great sign. And if the new cat isn't also fighting back this is good. Then they can have dominant and passive rolls instead of fighting for king of the house.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Not sure if you did a graduated introduction or not. Briefly, first separate rooms. Switch the rooms each day. Then let them see each other through a crack or a screen. THen feed them on either side of the room etc. If behavior regresses have to go back to previous step. It can take several weeks as cats are slow to adapt sometimes.

The behavior you describe can get worse and I would be cautious.

If you want to read more there are a few good books that describe the process. One good one is Nicholas Dodman's The Cat who cried for help. I think he described exactly this situation if I recall correctly. I also used the book "Competability" years ago but it wasn't as in depth I think.

Sorry if I have just stated the obvious.

 

[Barnsey27]

Hey! Check this website out. http://www.aspcabehavior.org/ They have some great articles on introducing cats, and they have a virtual pet behaviorist to help you if the articles don't help. Basically you can get some good advice from a real behaviorist at the ASPCA if the problem persists or gets worse. Good luck!

 

[dgm]

You know, I've introduced three different cats to my cat over the years, and I haven't ever gotten it quite right.

I agree with StartingoverVet's suggestions to back things up a little bit. Cats take forever... Like BlacKat said, definitely multiple litterboxes (which I suspect you already have, since you kept them in separate rooms initially). I keep hearing that the ideal is one more litterbox than cats, which I know isn't always practical or necessary.

Punishment generally doesn't work well with cats, so I'm not sure doing anything aversive to your older cat when he jumps on the kitten is going to be much help. There might be some sort of clicker training you could do with him, where being near the kitten (and not attacking) gets him treats, so he either gets desensitized to her presence, or starts to think she's the best thing ever. (I'm talking out my ass here, don't know if this would work or not!)

 

[BlacKAT33]

Punishment generally doesn't work well with cats, so I'm not sure doing anything aversive to your older cat when he jumps on the kitten is going to be much help. (I'm talking out my ass here, don't know if this would work or not!)

yes this may be wishful thinking haha my bf and i always try and give her the mean voice when we yell at her to get off the kitchen counter and my bf shoves her off things when she knows she shouldnt be up there hahaha doesnt work great cuz she still does it!! But you can tell she knows she is doing something wrong cuz she gets this guilty face (yes, i can read her emotions lol) but that reminds me. for serious things, like us worrying about her getting electrocuted, we use a spray bottle. works great!! its to the point now that if we just shake the bottle she hears it and runs out from under the cords. But this could be tricky in your situation because you don't want the new addition to the family to get sprayed too.

 

[dgm]

yes this may be wishful thinking haha my bf and i always try and give her the mean voice when we yell at her to get off the kitchen counter and my bf shoves her off things when she knows she shouldnt be up there hahaha doesnt work great cuz she still does it!! But you can tell she knows she is doing something wrong cuz she gets this guilty face (yes, i can read her emotions lol)

Yeah my cats definitely know which things I'm going to yell at them for, and just wait till I leave the room to do them, if they're feeling particularly courteous. The only thing I managed to punish out of my kitten was jumping at the bird cage - and that was because I happened to be right there the first time she ever did it, forgot she was only 4 pounds, and swiped her right out of the air as she leapt for it. Scared the crap out of her (and I felt SO bad!), but she hasn't tried that since... Now she just sits on the back of the couch and "crushes" the bird between her paws, a la Kids in the Hall.

 

[Tobysgirl81]

Fantastic, non-painful, non-invasive but handy cat training tool? Canned air. Don't know what, don't know what it is, but if you're anything like me by the time you get up to discipline your cats they're already gone. My cats however HATED the sound of canned air and scared the crud out of them. Excellent cat deterrent 🙂

 

[Whyevernot55]

I use a squirt bottle on my kitties - the youngest is deaf, so canned air/yelling/hissing at them...totally ineffective. He's also INCREDIBLY badly behaved.

I personally really really really love Feliway, in addition to some of the other suggestions about slow introductions people have given. It keeps the fighting down in a small apartment with 4 cats.

Then again, I tend to just throw the new kitten in with the current cats and hope for the best. Kittens are generally ok with this, and I keep them supervised. I catsit for an adult Maine Coon who comes to stay with us, and he's only allowed to interact with my cats while supervised - if no one is home, he stays in his "bedroom."

 

[ssmith30]

I recently went to the MVC in Columbus and attended a lecture on cat behavior. One way to redirect unwanted behavior in cats (like marking, aggression, etc) is to use treats...that is if you have cats that are highly food motivated. This may be a long process that will require patients and consistency on your part, but watch them closely when they are allowed together. As some have suggested take a few steps back before trying this. Allow several times a day a short period of time where they can be allowed together (say 10-15 minutes). When you observe any aggressive behavior have your treat bag/can ready and simply shake it when things start to take a turn for the worse. You have to be quick and correct with your timing, but when they hear that shake there mindset will shift from attack to hey...snack time! You should use a food item that is really rewarding and thus a better response. You will not be rewarding the aggressive behavior, but instead the redirected behavior. This works best with food motivated cats. Good luck, oh and the Dr at the conference was Dr. Meghan Herron really nice lady.

 

[scb44f]

Fantastic, non-painful, non-invasive but handy cat training tool? Canned air. Don't know what, don't know what it is, but if you're anything like me by the time you get up to discipline your cats they're already gone. My cats however HATED the sound of canned air and scared the crud out of them. Excellent cat deterrent 🙂

Ooh, great idea. I'll have to try this. Water worked for about a day on my cat. Even if I spray him with the nozzle on the kitchen sink with the water on full blast he just sits there and enjoys it. 😕

To the OP: It's not something I've had to do personally so I can't give any advice, but good luck!

 

[clouds815]

thanks everyone for all the advice! 🙂 i'll definitely try some of those things.
(some i already am doing - separate litter, food etc. and they are not allowed together if i am not present - that will take much more time)
i know it will take a while before they settle, its me who is the impatient one!

they have good moments too - so perhaps there is some hope. earlier when my resident male was sleeping next to me the new little girl jumped up and licked him a few times! i have to say i am impressed with her resilience and tolerance of his behavior. it was so cute and funny he didn't know what to make of it!

 

[StartingoverVet]

Fantastic, non-painful, non-invasive but handy cat training tool? Canned air. Don't know what, don't know what it is, but if you're anything like me by the time you get up to discipline your cats they're already gone. My cats however HATED the sound of canned air and scared the crud out of them. Excellent cat deterrent 🙂

Another good deterrent is noise. Change in a soda can or something similar is a good noise for counterconditioning.... and they don't usually associate with you!

 

[BlacKAT33]

earlier when my resident male was sleeping next to me the new little girl jumped up and licked him a few times! i have to say i am impressed with her resilience and tolerance of his behavior. it was so cute and funny he didn't know what to make of it!

aww!!! so cute!! i'm sure he will get used to her since she likes him already 😉 let us know how it goes after a while!! Or maybe it will turn into a Garfield and Nermal scene hehehe (they secretly love each other!! although, i found it very surprising that nermal was actually a guy?? lol i still pretend he's a cute lil girl 😀)

 

[marycatherine]

aww!!! so cute!! i'm sure he will get used to her since she likes him already 😉 let us know how it goes after a while!! Or maybe it will turn into a Garfield and Nermal scene hehehe (they secretly love each other!! although, i found it very surprising that nermal was actually a guy?? lol i still pretend he's a cute lil girl 😀)

WHOA. nermal was a guy??

 

[twelvetigers]

WHOA. nermal was a guy??

Duh.

Since when is Nermal a girl name?

 

[clouds815]

well unfortunately things have gotten worse - to fighting. he stalks and lunges at her all the time, & bites. i thought we were making progress yesterday when they slept next to each other and he licked her a couple times. but that was a rare event. as i don't want her to get hurt, i think i'll have to give her up unless things improve 🙁
thanks anyway to everyone for trying to help... i did buy one of those books, perhaps that may have some insight

 

[BlacKAT33]

well unfortunately things have gotten worse - to fighting. he stalks and lunges at her all the time, & bites. i thought we were making progress yesterday when they slept next to each other and he licked her a couple times. but that was a rare event. as i don't want her to get hurt, i think i'll have to give her up unless things improve 🙁
thanks anyway to everyone for trying to help... i did buy one of those books, perhaps that may have some insight

sry to hear that! that makes me sad because they seemed to be heading in the right direction. 🙁 if things still get worse then i hope you can find her a good home

 

[Angelo84]

If you are having them out together already you went too fast on the slow gradual introduction process. I would back up to feeding on opposite sides of a door and get them being happy with that. Then go to seeing each other through a cracked door while eating, then eating on opposite sides of the same room etc. So there is still hope you just pushed things too fast. You stay at each of the above stages until they are good at that stage ie no stalking, hissing, swatting, looks etc then move to the next stage. So each stage might take a few days to a week. In the end you should be able to feed them right next to each other. You are trying to create a situation where all good things in life happen only when the other cat is around.

Good luck.

 

[StartingoverVet]

If you are having them out together already you went too fast on the slow gradual introduction process. I would back up to feeding on opposite sides of a door and get them being happy with that. Then go to seeing each other through a cracked door while eating, then eating on opposite sides of the same room etc. So there is still hope you just pushed things too fast. You stay at each of the above stages until they are good at that stage ie no stalking, hissing, swatting, looks etc then move to the next stage. So each stage might take a few days to a week. In the end you should be able to feed them right next to each other. You are trying to create a situation where all good things in life happen only when the other cat is around.

Good luck.

I strongly agree and feel it is urgent to reiterate this post. It really sounds like you are trying to move too fast. Patience is the key with cats. Don't give up yet. Just try a very gradual process. It is a bit of a pain, but usually in the end you have a much higher chance of success.

 

[clouds815]

perhaps you're right. i guess i just figured they would need to see each other to get used to each other. as i a definitely don't want to give her up, i will take several steps back (patience is not a virtue of mine i admit) and try again slowly. thanks!

 

[dyachei]

You could also try to infiltrate areas they both inhabit with feliway - its an anxiety-reducing mist or diffuser and can be found in pet stores (like petsmart). It shouldn't be used without doing the other things people on here are mentioning, but it can come in handy. But, it's not cheap

 

[StartingoverVet]

You could also try to infiltrate areas they both inhabit with feliway - its an anxiety-reducing mist or diffuser and can be found in pet stores (like petsmart). It shouldn't be used without doing the other things people on here are mentioning, but it can come in handy. But, it's not cheap

I used that once on my cat and it had a strange effect. By relieving her anxieties she oddly went to the other extreme and became extremely bold and adventurous and dare I say reckless. Certainly not her normal personality!

 

[Whyevernot55]

You could also try to infiltrate areas they both inhabit with feliway - its an anxiety-reducing mist or diffuser and can be found in pet stores (like petsmart). It shouldn't be used without doing the other things people on here are mentioning, but it can come in handy. But, it's not cheap

I mentioned this higher up in the thread. However, I get mine on ebay, and it is MUCH cheaper that way. I got the diffusers from the clinic, but the refills are so sodding expensive that even the vet I work for buys them on ebay!

 

[clouds815]

would that have to be used all the time then? or just during the adjustment period?
is that similar to putting your cat on valium/prozac or something?

 

[dyachei]

would that have to be used all the time then? or just during the adjustment period?
is that similar to putting your cat on valium/prozac or something?

You don't have to use it all the time and its not at all like putting your cat on prozac. First off, it either plugs into the wall or sprayed on areas where the cats tend to have disagreements. It is based off the pheromone that cats use to bunt with - the one that they use when they rub their cheeks on something. It signifies complacency to cats that inhale that pheromone. You could probably look it up on their website fairly easily by googling it.