Is 22 really good score?

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mbition

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Well, I took DAT 3 times, and I finally got 22 AA on last February.

(Bio19 GChem21 OChem30 PAT21 RC22 QR21)

I applied to 5 schools, and I only got waitlisted at Western. I thought I was gonna hear from Western because people told me that my dat score is pretty solid. Unfortunately, I did not hear anything from the school, and I'm reapplying for 2010.

Is my dat score really good? I read some threads under dat forum, and there are so many people getting 23, 24, and still worring about their score... which makes me very nervous... Is the average score really going up every year?

I gaduated from UCR, and my gpa is 3.4.
My major is Business, which means I did not take any upper division science classes like biochem.
 
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Upper level sciences are a must!!! Your DAT score is fantastic, but with no upper levels science courses, you were a long shot to get in. D-schools want to see if your are knowledgeable and can handle the basic sciences course work. Biochem is a major requirement for many D-schools, take anatomy, physiology, cell biology, immunology, microbiology, developmental biology, etc. at least 20 hours of upper levels with a decent showing of grades between As and Bs with your DAT score should get you in somewhere, assuming you have good ECs to back.
 
Do you have enough shadowing/volunteer experience? Good letters of recommendation/personal statement? Your DAT and GPA are not the problem. It also depends on what schools you applied to, you might want to add a few more this year.
 
Your stats are ok... your DAT is pretty good but your GPA is average at best. You need to apply to more than 5 schools... With your stats, I'd say 10 to 12 is a better number. 5 schools is for the 3.8s with the 24 DAT...
 
mantraman1010 said:
Upper level sciences are a must!!! Your DAT score is fantastic, but with no upper levels science courses, you were a long shot to get in. D-schools want to see if your are knowledgeable and can handle the basic sciences course work. Biochem is a major requirement for many D-schools, take anatomy, physiology, cell biology, immunology, microbiology, developmental biology, etc. at least 20 hours of upper levels with a decent showing of grades between As and Bs with your DAT score should get you in somewhere, assuming you have good ECs to back.
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I agree! This was taken from a dental school applicant site and mimics many other sites I saw:

Competitive students will take some combination of the following courses: art, cell biology, histology, human anatomy, microbiology, and physiology.

This statement followed a list of required courses similar to that of most schools. It included general chemistry, organic chemistry, biochemistry, physics, general biology, english, and math.

If I were in your shoes, I'd review the requirements of the schools you applied to or to which you will be re-applying. It may be you don't meet their minimum requirements in some areas given you major.

Also, having just completed my first year of dental school, I can say I wouldn't want to enter DS without a strong background in the sciences. A major portion of my first year was devoted to sciences classes. Although one could do fine without having previously had some of these courses, it would be very difficult given the course load is nothing like undergrad. Generally, we had between 8 and 11 classes (not semester hours) going at any given time. Those students who had strong science backgrounds were the one's who were much less frazzled than those who didn't.

Good luck with your new application!
 
I don't agree. it is possible to get into dental school with almost no upper division science courses. i know of this one girl, she got in the 20s for her dats and had over a 3.75 gpa, but she only took 1 upper division science course, that course is also known as one of the easier ones too in my university. if you do well in your prereqs and did well on your dat, i think it is okay.

btw that girl got into stony brook dental, so it was a good school
 
thethethe said:
I don't agree. it is possible to get into dental school with almost no upper division science courses. i know of this one girl, she got in the 20s for her dats and had over a 3.75 gpa, but she only took 1 upper division science course, that course is also known as one of the easier ones too in my university. if you do well in your prereqs and did well on your dat, i think it is okay.

btw that girl got into stony brook dental, so it was a good school
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One person does not represent the majority of applicants. That girl may have had other positives on her application that the OP may not have. And get into D-school without at least a couple of upper level sciences again is a LONG SHOT. It may happen, but rarely does it.
 
mantraman1010 said:
One person does not represent the majority of applicants. That girl may have had other positives on her application that the OP may not have. And get into D-school without at least a couple of upper level sciences again is a LONG SHOT. It may happen, but rarely does it.
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i had zero upper level science classes, but got into schools with high dat..
is biochem the big one to review b4 school? what else would you recommend looking at
 
I got a 22, and that was in the 96.9th percentile. I got a ts of 23, which was in the 98.9th percentile. The difference between a 19 and a 22 is huge, but the difference between a 22 and a 25 is only a couple of questions. It's a steeply bell curve grading, but I think the distribution of your high scores matters as well. I got interviews at almost every school I applied to, although I had a very solid gpa and extracurriculars as well. I only A&P and biochem for upper division sciences (other than ochem)
 
You should apply broadly. Five schools, even with your scores (22AA is excellent), it makes no sense to apply to so few schools unless there are financial reasons involved. Its important for the exceptions to not be the rule...that is make sure you start taking upper division science classes. I've heard countless times from deans that it makes a candidate much more competitive.

I wish you the best of luck, I think you should contact the school and ask them on what facets of your application could be improved upon to make you more competitive for the upcoming cycle.
 
diplo123 said:
I got a 22, and that was in the 96.9th percentile. I got a ts of 23, which was in the 98.9th percentile. The difference between a 19 and a 22 is huge, but the difference between a 22 and a 25 is only a couple of questions. It's a steeply bell curve grading, but I think the distribution of your high scores matters as well. I got interviews at almost every school I applied to, although I had a very solid gpa and extracurriculars as well. I only A&P and biochem for upper division sciences (other than ochem)
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Ya, that's what I was thinking. 22's across the board, for example, are amazing DAT scores. The OP's Ochem score of 30 is really pulling your AA up 1-2 points. Nonetheless, your gpa and DAT is overall good stats. Maybe you should have applied to more schools like others said.
 
Most dental schools require upper division science classes. I've taken BioChem, MicroBio, Zoology, and Anatomy, on top of gen bio and gen chem-ochem (w/ lab).





Sephisabin said:
Your stats are ok... your DAT is pretty good but your GPA is average at best. You need to apply to more than 5 schools... With your stats, I'd say 10 to 12 is a better number. 5 schools is for the 3.8s with the 24 DAT...
Click to expand...

I only applied at one school and got in with a 19 AA and 3.7 GPA.
 
grayzkule said:
Most dental schools require upper division science classes. I've taken BioChem, MicroBio, Zoology, and Anatomy, on top of gen bio and gen chem-ochem (w/ lab).




I only applied at one school and got in with a 19 AA and 3.7 GPA.
Click to expand...



I don't think any upper division sciences classes are required. Biochem is often required but that's about it.

Whats with the myth that upper division science classes are so important. High grades in the lower division ones is plenty.
 
Have to disagree with you on this one. I've been told by admission deans that those that just take the minimum aren't looked highly upon. They said they would rather take someone who has a slightly lower GPA but has challenged themselves with a rigorous science load. Afterall dental school gives you about twice the load of courses you would get as a Bio major, it would be hard for an ADCOM to look at just your grades in LD Bio, GC, and OC and say "this person has indicated to me they can handle the rigors of a heavy science load"....just my 2 cents
 
mbition said:
I applied to 5 schools, and I only got waitlisted at Western. I thought I was gonna hear from Western because people told me that my dat score is pretty solid. Unfortunately, I did not hear anything from the school, and I'm reapplying for 2010.
Is my dat score really good? I read some threads under dat forum, and there are so many people getting 23, 24, and still worring about their score... which makes me very nervous... Is the average score really going up every year?
I gaduated from UCR, and my gpa is 3.4.
My major is Business, which means I did not take any upper division science classes like biochem.
Click to expand...

In 2007 there were 136 (1.6%) with a score of 22, 47 (0.5%) with 23, 20 (0.2%) with 24 and 5 (0.1%) with 25 out of 8897 and if that's "many" than you are right. While a little bit of thunder may have been lost considering the 3rd attempt, the lack of success may lie elsewhere.

http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/testing/dat/dat_score_frequency.pdf

mantraman1010 said:
Upper level sciences are a must!!! Your DAT score is fantastic, but with no upper levels science courses, you were a long shot to get in. D-schools want to see if your are knowledgeable and can handle the basic sciences course work. Biochem is a major requirement for many D-schools, take anatomy, physiology, cell biology, immunology, microbiology, developmental biology, etc. at least 20 hours of upper levels with a decent showing of grades between As and Bs with your DAT score should get you in somewhere, assuming you have good ECs to back.
Click to expand...
There are ds that do like upper division science courses, however, it is unlikely that there are many applicants with those qualifications outside of biology majors and since these represent about one half of the applicants the statement that "upper level sciences are a must" may be a little overstated.
 
Ignore what these monkeys are saying. Why're you applying to Western? Apply to schools within your league. Apply to the smart people school, not the dumb idiots school. The dumb schools'll think they're your backup and won't give you a serious consideration.
 
dentstd said:
Ignore what these monkeys are saying. Why're you applying to Western? Apply to schools within your league. Apply to the smart people school, not the dumb idiots school. The dumb schools'll think they're your backup and won't give you a serious consideration.
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So dumb schools must graduate dumb (idiots) dentists. There must be a heck of a lot of them out there.
 
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I think 22 is really good score.
Even 20 is a good score.
Congratulations~!
 
doc toothache said:
In 2007 there were 136 (1.6%) with a score of 22, 47 (0.5%) with 23, 20 (0.2%) with 24 and 5 (0.1%) with 25 out of 8897 and if that's "many" than you are right. While a little bit of thunder may have been lost considering the 3rd attempt, the lack of success may lie elsewhere.

http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/testing/dat/dat_score_frequency.pdf


There are ds that do like upper division science courses, however, it is unlikely that there are many applicants with those qualifications outside of biology majors and since these represent about one half of the applicants the statement that "upper level sciences are a must" may be a little overstated.
Click to expand...

The link is password protected.
 
upper level sciences may not be a must but it definitely increases chance.
some admissions officers rejected students for low GPA, low DAT score, or not enough upper level sceience classes.
 
doc toothache said:
So dumb schools must graduate dumb (idiots) dentists. There must be a heck of a lot of them out there.
Click to expand...

You interpret it however you want. If you don't like how UCLA accepts mostly 22's while they reject nearly all the 18's, take it up with them. If you don't like how VCU accepts the 18's but don't bother to even interview the 22's, take it up with VCU. You don't apply to Western with a 22. Why? Because they won't accept you, and you may have to reapply next year. As is the case with this applicant.

If you want to be politically correct, all school produce fine graduates. If you want to be real, some schools attract the best, while some schools take whatever they can get.
 
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dentstd said:
Ignore what these monkeys are saying. Why're you applying to Western? Apply to schools within your league. Apply to the smart people school, not the dumb idiots school. The dumb schools'll think they're your backup and won't give you a serious consideration.
Click to expand...

At first I assumed you were being sarcastic.

WTH was that all about 😕

So what ds you go to, I'm guessing Columbia?:idea:
 
I think 22 is a good score. I would be proud of that.

For upper-level science courses, do dental schools frown upon students who take more "ecological" courses (parasitology, terrestrial ecosystems, etc.)? These "ecological" courses interest me more. Or do dental schools prefer students who have taken majority of upper-level sciences in biochemistry, anatomy, microbiology?

I have taken two semesters of second year microbiology, and will be taking two third year courses in advanced biochemistry and animal physiology next year.
 
Yes aa 22 is an exceptional score. Taking upper level science shows that you can handle hard courses. However I do not believe these courses need to be only bio related. If you handle upper level science courses, you are showing that you have the potential. By the way it is not logical to say you MUST complete upper level science course, because there are many non-science majors get into DS without taking upper science courses.
 
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I think that everyone assumes the only thing adcoms care about is GPA and DAT. I don't know how many school you interviewed with, but assuming you interviewed with at least a few, I would gather to say you need to sharpen your interviewing skills. The other thing we tend to forget, is what makes us stand out amongst many applications is NOT our DAT or GPA scores, rather, how well we communicate in the application, what makes us special, and unique, and different than other applicants, so they will have no choice but to remember us... which is not always reflected in our gross scores. The only thing those scores do is help to organize and weed the pile for review. For sure you are up there with respect to applications they were interested in, but you may have fallen short in identifying what really makes you stand out, and why they would want you... So forget about retaking the DAT, concentrate on your heart and soul and write a really clear essay about who you are and what qualities you bring to a dental school class. Everyone has their unique story to tell, so work on that aspect of your application, and then get some really tough interviewing advice, and let your genuine, sincere and unique qualities come out when you meet with them face to face. This is not the easy part to learn, because it takes practice and confidence, not books and hours of studying, but it's what you need to focus on - not more bio classes... please - you've already demonstrated you're smart enough, now show them who you really are inside.
Good luck.
 
Thanks for your replies... Great help!!!! I am more than relieved now. I am planning to take some upper division classes duing this summer at community college. But, Im still waiting to hear from Western. I know this school is not so great, but I can commute to this school and I don't think school name is that important. (I saw some threads saying western is the worst d-school.)
But seriously, this school is ghetto... I couldn't believe my eyes when I first visited the campus... Well, they are building new ones... so we'll see.
 
Thank you for your wonderful advice. I totally agree with you. You reminded me things that I forgot. Anyways, I applied really late for 2009 cycle. I belive that is why I didnt get more interviews and waitlisted at Western. I applied in December, and there was few school that still I had chances to apply. This time I will apply 1st week of June. Hope I will have more chances this tiime.
dentalmama said:
I think that everyone assumes the only thing adcoms care about is GPA and DAT. I don't know how many school you interviewed with, but assuming you interviewed with at least a few, I would gather to say you need to sharpen your interviewing skills. The other thing we tend to forget, is what makes us stand out amongst many applications is NOT our DAT or GPA scores, rather, how well we communicate in the application, what makes us special, and unique, and different than other applicants, so they will have no choice but to remember us... which is not always reflected in our gross scores. The only thing those scores do is help to organize and weed the pile for review. For sure you are up there with respect to applications they were interested in, but you may have fallen short in identifying what really makes you stand out, and why they would want you... So forget about retaking the DAT, concentrate on your heart and soul and write a really clear essay about who you are and what qualities you bring to a dental school class. Everyone has their unique story to tell, so work on that aspect of your application, and then get some really tough interviewing advice, and let your genuine, sincere and unique qualities come out when you meet with them face to face. This is not the easy part to learn, because it takes practice and confidence, not books and hours of studying, but it's what you need to focus on - not more bio classes... please - you've already demonstrated you're smart enough, now show them who you really are inside.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
 
mbition said:
Thanks for your replies... Great help!!!! I am more than relieved now. I am planning to take some upper division classes duing this summer at community college. But, Im still waiting to hear from Western. I know this school is not so great, but I can commute to this school and I don't think school name is that important. (I saw some threads saying western is the worst d-school.)
But seriously, this school is ghetto... I couldn't believe my eyes when I first visited the campus... Well, they are building new ones... so we'll see.
Click to expand...

hey hope we are hearing from them sooon!
 
dentstd said:
You interpret it however you want. If you don't like how UCLA accepts mostly 22's while they reject nearly all the 18's, take it up with them. If you don't like how VCU accepts the 18's but don't bother to even interview the 22's, take it up with VCU. You don't apply to Western with a 22. Why? Because they won't accept you, and you may have to reapply next year. As is the case with this applicant.

If you want to be politically correct, all school produce fine graduates. If you want to be real, some schools attract the best, while some schools take whatever they can get.
Click to expand...

Where should the OP be applying? I'm in a similar position but with lower GPA and more upper level courses.
 
I don't know what DAT score you got and got rejected in 2009.
But I think your current DAT score is definitely very competitive.
GPA is ok~ but not bad and your DAT score will back you up.


Let's say people in SDN say your DAT score is low. what are you going to do?
You already took it 3 times so you can't take it anymore.
So basically it's not like we can stop you even if your DAT is bad.(your DAT score is very good in my view).
 
dentstd said:
You interpret it however you want. If you don't like how UCLA accepts mostly 22's while they reject nearly all the 18's, take it up with them. If you don't like how VCU accepts the 18's but don't bother to even interview the 22's, take it up with VCU. You don't apply to Western with a 22. Why? Because they won't accept you, and you may have to reapply next year. As is the case with this applicant.
Click to expand...

You may be correct in claiming that UCLA accepts mostly 22s but you couldn't tell that from the mean of 21 for 2008. In 2007 the median was 20, mean was 22 and the range was 17-25. As for VCU, they must have made exceptions in 2007/08 with enrollees with a 23.
 
doc toothache said:
You may be correct in claiming that UCLA accepts mostly 22s but you couldn't tell that from the mean of 21 for 2008. In 2007 the median was 20, mean was 22 and the range was 17-25. As for VCU, they must have made exceptions in 2007/08 with enrollees with a 23.
Click to expand...

I'm sure VCU accepts 23's from Virginia, because they'll actually go to get in-state tuition.

Bottomline, the kid has a 22, chose to apply to the bottom tier schools, and didn't get into a single school. Does he want to get into a dental school? Time to apply to the more competitive schools.
 
dentstd said:
Learn to read. This isn't statistics. You should apply to the dumb schools.
Click to expand...

What do you call collecting data (OP stats), interpretation of the data (scores competitive or not, based on comparison), and making conclusions based off of the presented data?
 
Moe Lester said:
What do you call collecting data (OP stats), interpretation of the data (scores competitive or not, based on comparison), and making conclusions based off of the presented data?
Click to expand...

I call it not information provided in this thread. Go cry about it to your PI.
 
mbition said:
I applied to 5 schools, and I only got waitlisted at Western.
Click to expand...

Which 5 schools did you apply to? We can help you choose schools that fit your stats. (i.e. if your schools choices were Western, Howard, UW, Harvard, and Baylor, we'll need to make some changes when you apply next time 😉)
 
dentstd said:
I call it not information provided in this thread. Go cry about it to your PI.
Click to expand...

Rhetorical question STDs.

1. Why are you lurking around pre-dental forums? Because you clearly failed as an advisor.
2. Do you want us to commend you for your high stats since your parents failed to do so?

This is pretty much sums you up:
http://www.fmylife.com/miscellaneous/1916731
 
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I applied to USC, Western, Columbia and NYU.

Honestly, I had do idea when I applied to those schools, and still don't have much info about d-schools. I serched online, but it made me more counfused. I applied to those school only because they had latest deadline and didn't require upper division classes. I applied in December,2008 and retook DAT in Febreary, 2009.

My friend is MD at big hospital near Western university and he coordinates western DO redidents to his department. So he talked to the president of the school and sent letters to admission coordinator and dental dean... Well, he did everything he could. So I could get an interview and got waitlisted even though I applied so late. So, I was pretty confident... But it seems I should go for 2010 cycle now. Very frustrated, but trying to focus on new game.

Now here is my exact stat.
Major in Business @ UCR overall 3.35 Sci 3.4 (no upper division classes)
DAT BIO 19 GChem 21 OChem 30 RC 22 GR 20 AA 22 TS 21 PAT 20
dental experiences: 500 hrs
dental mission trip to Mongolia (10 days)
volunteer work @ Mexico (orphans, homeless people) (a week)
PraiseTeam leader @ church for 3yrs
no research
planning to take microbiology Microbiology & Anatomy @ community college during summer.
Now I am a teaching computer and math @ private leaning center.

Hope I can get in any dental school this year.

somethinpositiv said:
Which 5 schools did you apply to? We can help you choose schools that fit your stats. (i.e. if your schools choices were Western, Howard, UW, Harvard, and Baylor, we'll need to make some changes when you apply next time 😉)
Click to expand...
 
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Moe Lester said:
Rhetorical question STDs.

1. Why are you lurking around pre-dental forums? Because you clearly failed as an advisor.
2. Do you want us to commend you for your high stats since your parents failed to do so?

This is pretty much sums you up:
http://www.fmylife.com/miscellaneous/1916731
Click to expand...

I see what's going on now. It's a matter of who has the last words, right? Who provides the knockout blow. Who has the bigger penis. If you can't think logically, let's turn it personal. If you can't make sense, let's attack a person's parents instead. Uh huh...
 
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mbition said:
I applied to USC, Western, Columbia and NYU.

Honestly, I had do idea when I applied to those schools, and still don't have much info about d-schools. I serched online, but it made me more counfused. I applied to those school only because they had latest deadline and didn't require upper division classes. I applied in December,2008 and retook DAT in Febreary, 2009.

My friend is MD at big hospital near Western university and he coordinates western DO redidents to his department. So he talked to the president of the school and sent letters to admission coordinator and dental dean... Well, he did everything he could. So I could get an interview and got waitlisted even though I applied so late. So, I was pretty confident... But it seems I should go for 2010 cycle now. Very frustrated, but trying to focus on new game.

Now here is my exact stat.
Major in Business @ UCR overall 3.35 Sci 3.4 (no upper division classes)
DAT BIO 19 GChem 21 OChem 30 RC 22 GR 20 AA 22 TS 21 PAT 20
dental experiences: 500 hrs
dental mission trip to Mongolia (10 days)
volunteer work @ Mexico (orphans, homeless people) (a week)
PraiseTeam leader @ church for 3yrs
no research
planning to take microbiology Microbiology & Anatomy @ community college during summer.
Now I am a teaching computer and math @ private leaning center.

Hope I can get in any dental school this year.
Click to expand...

Your application became complete during the time when people are coming off the waitlist. Do the same thing again this year, but do it earlier and apply to more schools. You're fine for next year. End of thread.
 
dentstd said:
I see what's going on now. It's a matter of who has the last words, right? Who provides the knockout blow. Who has the bigger penis. If you can't think logically, let's turn it personal. If you can't make sense, let's attack a person's parents instead. Uh huh...
Click to expand...

You started it not me, when you told me to go learn how to read, etc.

But I'll be the bigger man and quit. I give up, you win.
 
Things I love: pizza, football and SDN fighting. Man.

To the OP: 22 is a decent score but 24 is more like it. Just kidding. Good Job!
 
preOMFS said:
Things I love: pizza, football and SDN fighting. Man.

To the OP: 22 is a decent score but 24 is more like it. Just kidding. Good Job!
Click to expand...

Agreed. 22 is really good. Don't let the fear of fellow SDNers with a 24 intimidate you. You will feel like a rockstar in your interview if you have all the rest, I promise.
 
Only on SDN is a 22 an average to bad score worth being ashamed of. A 22 is usually around the 95th percentile by the way. You scored in the top 5%?! Well you might as well quit now and start cleaning toilets.
 
You should be proud of your score. Your GPA isn't perfect, but it's not awful. You worked hard and it paid off. Just be confident in what you have going for you and continue to improve your application day by day. 😀
 
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