Is a PhD right for me?

[Superiordesign]

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I know various iterations of the MSW vs. PsyD/PhD theme have been addressed, so I apologize in advance for the redundancy of my post but.....

Here's my situation.
I am 26, graduated from an Ivy league school, 3.6+ GPA in Sociology, wrote an honors thesis (extensive research) in 2009. Loved it, but got caught up in the whole corporate america rat race. Eventually decided it wasn't for me...no passion, not looking forward to waking up in the morning etc.

So...

Applied and been accepted to BC (with significant scholarship $$$) and BU MSW programs. I applied half heartedly, mostly because I'm terrified of spending 1-2 years doing the pre reqs (I am looking at Columbia's post-bacc for psych program) I would need to get into a fully funded PsyD program (which would be my pref) or a PhD program (I would be ok with a balanced program, but would mostly be doing this to not take on mountains of debt).

But...

1. I am less than thrilled about the course work in the MSW programs--doesn't look challenging and/or like it will prepare me to be the practitioner that I envision myself as
2. I am less than thrilled about the salary prospects for MSW (BUSSW suggested 33K as an average for fresh graduated).
3. While one piece of my overall plan is to have a private practice, I would also like to have the option to maybe teach, hold seminars. I think I might get bored/feel limited with just therapy... I am really interested in race and psychology (I know thats broad, but...) and could possibly see myself doing research in the hopes of advancing knowledge in that area...

Thoughts?

 

[fallen625]

It sounds like you did research in the past and liked it, and that therapy alone might not be all you are looking for - a PhD or fully-funded PsyD (believe the only one is Baylor, though Rutgers offers generous funding for a PsyD program) might be a good idea. You might need research experience though, and it is incredibly challenging to get in to PhD programs and fully funded PsyD programs.

Are you still working at your current job? Maybe a good idea would be to keep working and do volunteer research work in the area you are interested in (this will help you with not only experience, but refining your interests, and getting recommendation letters), and simultaneously apply to PhD programs this and next cycle.

It seems risky (IMO) to quit a corporate job to pursue an MSW, especially when you are unsure about it. I quit a corporate job to pursue applying to a PhD program and it is one of the hardest things I have ever done (and I am not dealing with the financial implications as my husband is still working on Wall Street) - you do not want to take this decision lightly.

 

[Superiordesign]

Just to clarify, the Columbia post-bacc program includes a strong research component and is full-time.

 

[PHD12]

Applied and been accepted to BC (with significant scholarship $$$) and BU MSW programs. I applied half heartedly, mostly because I'm terrified of spending 1-2 years doing the pre reqs (I am looking at Columbia's post-bacc for psych program) I would need to get into a fully funded PsyD program (which would be my pref) or a PhD program (I would be ok with a balanced program, but would mostly be doing this to not take on mountains of debt).

But...

1. I am less than thrilled about the course work in the MSW programs--doesn't look challenging and/or like it will prepare me to be the practitioner that I envision myself as
2. I am less than thrilled about the salary prospects for MSW (BUSSW suggested 33K as an average for fresh graduated).
3. While one piece of my overall plan is to have a private practice, I would also like to have the option to maybe teach, hold seminars. I think I might get bored/feel limited with just therapy... I am really interested in race and psychology (I know thats broad, but...) and could possibly see myself doing research in the hopes of advancing knowledge in that area...

Thoughts?

I have a couple of thoughts:

1) If you primarily want to have a therapy career, going through 7-8 years of training (and longer for you since you need to pay for the postbach program) for a PsyD or PhD is not going to be worth it. PP and Therapy only jobs are some of the lowest paying jobs for psychologists and do not differentiate you from a MA level clinician. Also please read about the current state of PP on these forums and consider that you won't have any benefits in PP.

2) I have a few friends/colleagues with former careers in law/finance who then went into psychology. I don't think they fully realized how tough it was to make $ in psychology until after they graduated, and some of them continue to do some work in law/business after getting a psych degree to supplement income. After you graduate, your postdoc salary will be 25-45K and then once you are licensed (appx. one year after graduating), you will start around 50-60K, depending on the the position.

3) Baylor and Rutgers have the best reputations among PsyD Programs. Baylor is the only one that is fully funded. However, you will have to do a good amount of research in a good PsyD program and a dissertation as well. I would get involved in research first.

4) You will have to be geographically flexible in this field (see internship crisis).

 

[Doctor Eliza]

One thing that we have discussed on this board before is that an MSW is not good preparation for getting into a doc program in psych. It will teach you clinical skills and make you employable. Those are good things, but expect that none of your master's work will transfer and you will have to retake classes and do a new thesis. Also, it will make many PhD programs brand you as a student interested in being a clinician only and make them less interested in taking you. A master's in experimental or clinical psychology is more likely to help you get into a doc program, but will be virtually useless if you don't go on to a doc program because you will not be license eligible.

Important to keep in mind. Good luck!

Dr. E

P.S. I feel like I might have seen a thread on here before about the Columbia program. Worth doing a search.

 

[Superiordesign]

Yeah, sorry for the muddled post, to clarify, I have no hopes that an MSW will serve as a prep for PhD, I was considering going the MSW route as a shorter path to private practice, but am petrified of eating beans and rice for life (keeping it real).

 

[PHD12]

Yeah, sorry for the muddled post, to clarify, I have no hopes that an MSW will serve as a prep for PhD, I was considering going the MSW route as a shorter path to private practice, but am petrified of eating beans and rice for life (keeping it real).

You should consider the NP degree or psychiatry (NP is shorter) if you want to be comfortable. PP doing therapy can be very low paying and risky (with both a PsyD and MSW). The MSW is just significantly cheaper and shorter (by 4 years).

 

[JeyRo]

Yeah, sorry for the muddled post, to clarify, I have no hopes that an MSW will serve as a prep for PhD, I was considering going the MSW route as a shorter path to private practice, but am petrified of eating beans and rice for life (keeping it real).

If one gets into 250K of debt to get a PsyD degree, particularly if it's just to do PP, you're going to be much more likely eating beans and rice for life than if you got an MSW.

 

[Superiordesign]

Wow...a little piece of me (the hopeful, happy part) just died...maybe I should consider I/O psych instead.

 

[PHD12]

If one gets into 250K of debt to get a PsyD degree, particularly if it's just to do PP, you're going to be much more likely eating beans and rice for life than if you got an MSW.

+1

The last salary survey I looked at from the APA workplace studies indicated that PsyD graduates specifically had a median salary of only 75K 8-10 years after graduating. This is a pretty bad "mid-career" salary given that most psychologists practice in major metropolitan areas and this was pre-recession.

PP is a going to be a rough way to make a living for most folks. We have one psychologist on this board who made 44K last year (no benefits) after getting her PhD from a good program several years ago.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Wow...a little piece of me (the hopeful, happy part) just died...maybe I should consider I/O psych instead.

Actually, if you enjoyed anything about corporate America, that could be a great option and your experience could be valuable. I have always heard that they make good money, but idk if that continues to be the case and/or how many jobs are out there. Worth researching for sure!

Dr. E

 

[PHD12]

Wow...a little piece of me (the hopeful, happy part) just died...maybe I should consider I/O psych instead.

I know several people who do this work and are successful. There are many different paths to get into the I/O psychology field:

MBA (usually these people have consulting experience)
BA degree with management consulting experience
PHD in I/O Psychology
PhD in clinical psychology (usually these folks go back to school for an MBA, have significant business/management experience and/or are well-published/wrote a book in this area).

 

[Superiordesign]

Hmm...I'm currently in an "organizational alignment" function at my job (basically I do crap to make the employees happy, get trainers to come in, help with recruiting etc.)...I get paid above what you listed at the mid-level salary for Psych folks...Maybe I could do an MBA and slide into a real I/O type role. Thank yall for saving me some years and some heart-ache ....

 

[PHD12]

Hmm...I'm currently in an "organizational alignment" function at my job (basically I do crap to make the employees happy, get trainers to come in, help with recruiting etc.)...I get paid above what you listed at the mid-level salary for Psych folks...Maybe I could do an MBA and slide into a real I/O type role. Thank yall for saving me some years and some heart-ache ....

Interesting, what do you dislike about your current job specifically? I would imagine that it is not challenging enough for someone with your background. Can you move up to HR director without a graduate degree or do you want to do other stuff? Nice thing about MBA is that schools are moving to a 1 year program (although make sure you go to a good one).

Tell me about it, people I know with BA degrees are earning more than the average psychologist. It's depressing.

Good luck.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Interesting, what do you dislike about your current job specifically? I would imagine that it is not challenging enough for someone with your background. Can you move up to HR director without a graduate degree or do you want to do other stuff? Nice thing about MBA is that schools are moving to a 1 year program (although make sure you go to a good one).

Tell me about it, people I know with BA degrees are earning more than the average psychologist. It's depressing.

Good luck.

Your comment made me think of this recent article about the highest paid new bacherlor's majors/schools.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/25-college-diplomas-highest-pay-161915563.html

My UG made the top 25, but clearly in a different major. Next lifetime, right?

Dr. E

 

[fallen625]

Hmm...I'm currently in an "organizational alignment" function at my job (basically I do crap to make the employees happy, get trainers to come in, help with recruiting etc.)...I get paid above what you listed at the mid-level salary for Psych folks...Maybe I could do an MBA and slide into a real I/O type role. Thank yall for saving me some years and some heart-ache ....

In business, it is relatively easy to change jobs / careers. If you get an MBA, you can do pretty much anything - management consulting might be a good option for you

I worked in investment banking and we had people with backgrounds in marketing, HR, engineering, etc come in after MBAs

Alternatively, a PhD in I/O can land you some pretty good consulting roles or a much better chance of getting a well-paying professor position if you are interested in doing research.