Is an SMP a good move for someone in my position?

[flataffect001]

Hi everyone, happy holidays!

I joined this forum to see if I could get insight into whether doing an SMP is worth it either from those who've done one or from people who've been in a similar predicament to the one I'm currently in. I understand they're expensive and won't change my undergrad GPA.

For context, here are some particulars.

My overall GPA is 2.8 (likely to go down with the way retakes are factored in). I'll say that I've got a very strong upward trend, particularly with grades from upper-division science coursework.

My sGPA is a 3.4

I've worked full-time as a scribe in urgent care for 4 years throughout undergrad--even when I started doing well, I was still working full-time. I also started working as an ophthalmic tech/scribe at an ophtho office for the last year.

I am slated to take the MCAT in 19 days (I definitely don't have a day counter on my desktop), and my latest practice exam score is 512.. hopefully the one I'm about to take has a higher score.. shooting for a 517+.

I recently started shadowing an advanced endoscopist (chance encounter; I happened to meet them as a patient at work)

I'm a "project leader" for a large volunteer agency in NY. I've coordinated projects where we deliver free meals to those in need—sometimes coordinated events to offer companionship for elderly individuals on bingo nights and help students with SAT prep and FAFSA applications.

I got rec letters from doctors I've worked with for years who've watched me grow and my pharmacology/molecular neurobiology professor who's only seen the person I've grown into thus far.

Im just trying to make sure it's worth doing the extra year of an SMP plus the added cost vs just applying if I get a good MCAT score before the 2024 cycle opens up

Some places say yes, others say no--im like shook.

I really appreciate any help you can provide.

Also, please be kind; TikTok has painted this site to be a place where dreams go to die, ok bye.

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[SpoiledMilk]

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[Mr.Smile12]

TikTok has painted this site to be a place where dreams go to die, ok bye.

Tiktok? What have we done to upset the Chinese Communist Party? Where does that put Reddit and Twitter?

I like to think we're Shark Tank. 🙂 sometimes we are Judge Judy. We are definitely the Dream Factory for many. We just don't do TikTok. 🙂 at least I don't get it.

So why do you think you need an SMP? What classes have you taken?

 

[Goro]

Can you give us your year by year GPAs?

 

[flataffect001]

Tiktok? What have we done to upset the Chinese Communist Party? Where does that put Reddit and Twitter?

I like to think we're Shark Tank. 🙂 sometimes we are Judge Judy. We are definitely the Dream Factory for many. We just don't do TikTok. 🙂 at least I don't get it.

So why do you think you need an SMP? What classes have you taken?

Lmao, I like the Judge Judy vibe. In terms of TikTok, I've seen some videos that make memes on how people with good stats are told they'll never amount to anything--but I guess that's a common trope among any competitive cohort.

In terms of why SMP--I feel that I don't have enough to show that I'm taking myself seriously? I wouldn't be so bent out of shape if I knew I had at least a 3.0 since that's the cutoff for many schools. Even if most of the doctors I've had the opportunity to work with think ill be fine, I still don't see it 😍

These are the science classes ive taken:

Immunology (lab incl.)
pharmacology
biochemistry
Two semesters of physics (labs incl.)
Two semesters of organic chemistry (labs incl.)
Two semesters of bio and general chem (labs incl.)
evolution
genetics (lab incl.)
microbiology (labs incl.)
molecular neurobiology
Cell biology (useless course name but whatever)
vertebrate physiology (lab incl.)
two semesters of anatomy and physiology (labs incl.)

 

[flataffect001]

Can you give us your year by year GPAs?

Ive spent an extra year to get my undergrad degree; I was told to hold off on finishing up so i could raise my graduating GPA

first two years were spent at a community college
"freshman" GPA: 2.2
"sophomore" GPA: 2.6

then I transferred to a 4-year state school
"junior" year (also covid year.. 2020 😢): 1.7
"Senior" year: 3.6

And then my "fifth year" consists of three semesters which altogether have a 3.8 GPA (kind of like a DIY post bacc.. except they're considered part of my undergrad coursework since I only just applied to graduate)

Thanks for taking a look, seriously 🙂

 

[Goro]

I think that you have displayed enough reinvention to go for the Big Time.

 

[azo123]

If you’re not against going DO I would apply very broadly to DO schools and SMPs at the same time. If you don’t get in to a DO school you’re already accepted at an SMP that way. Look for ones with linkages if you have to go SMP route. Took me a while to pick a good program.

 

[flataffect001]

I think that you have displayed enough reinvention to go for the Big Time.

Thanks for that; I appreciate you. I also love that your bio/signature says introspection is a fundamental attribute (common sense, too, however uncommon)–especially because the theme of my PS is related to it.

 

[flataffect001]

If you’re not against going DO I would apply very broadly to DO schools and SMPs at the same time. If you don’t get in to a DO school you’re already accepted at an SMP that way. Look for ones with linkages if you have to go SMP route. Took me a while to pick a good program.

To be honest, I do quite like osteopathy's premise. I'll definitely heed your advice; thanks!

 

[Walruss]

I graduated college with a 3.2, with a science gpa at 2.8. I took many postbacc classes after graduating and worked full time. I got my overall to 3.3 and my science to just under 3.0. I got a 516 MCAT. I applied to only MD schools the first cycle and was rejected from everywhere, with no interview. Second cycle I applied while in an SMP and after having taken more postbacc classes (before doing the SMP.) I got my GPA up to 3.4 and my sGPA to 3.2 before the SMP. I got all As my first two quarters in the SMP. I am now a first year at an MD school (where I did my SMP), and received one other MD interview + 2 DO acceptances after applying to about 25 schools total.

My advice to you is to only do an SMP when all else fails. You have to kill the MCAT to have a good shot at MD schools and you need to get both GPAs above 3.0 or you will be autorejected from many schools, so an informal postbacc is best for that imo. You have to apply to DO schools! You have a strong upward trend which is great! Proud of you. Make sure kill that MCAT (517 is a good ideal score, and if you score 520+ then you've really really got a shot). You can do this. The SMP helped me, but I would not recommend it until you've failed one cycle. Best of luck!

 

[flataffect001]

I think that you have displayed enough reinvention to go for the Big Time.

Hi Goro, I hope you're well. I’d like to give a more realistic representation of my GPA trend (i.e. aligning with aacomas/amcas calculations + putting courses I've taken under their correct class standings per my transcripts). This was very.. very painful, but it's my story, so I must own it.

year-by-year GPA for all classes
freshman - 2.24
sophomore - 2.33
junior - 2.89
senior - 3.45
cumulative: 2.55 (ouch)

year by year GPA for science classes
freshman - 2.25
sophomore - 2.23
junior - 3.20
senior - 3.35
cumulative: 2.56 (yeouch)


I also dropped the ball with the MCAT; I ended up with a 509 (127/128/127/127). Didn’t finish CARS; too busy dilly-dallying with one of the passages

Today, I attended AAMC’s virtual fair and asked a couple of schools that didn’t have GPA screens listed on MSAR how they approached situations like mine (20+ extra credit hours rolled into undergrad). The two schools with mission statements I adore most (Larner in VT and SUNY upstate) said they look at the latest grades as an indicator of who I am as a student now.

I do wish AACOM's fair was online too but I'm sure it'll be a nice drive.

If it would be more appropriate to ask for help making a school list (a total joke, I know) through a WAMC post, I’ll do so with the proper format. If no one minds, I’ll add the extra details to this thread.

Thanks a million. And yes, all DO programs, except the ones on the naughty list.

 

[chilly_md]

year-by-year GPA for all classes
freshman - 2.24
sophomore - 2.33
junior - 2.89
senior - 3.45
cumulative: 2.55 (ouch)

year by year GPA for science classes
freshman - 2.25
sophomore - 2.23
junior - 3.20
senior - 3.35
cumulative: 2.56 (yeouch)

I thought you had said your sGPA was 3.4 overall. What happened to the senior year and fifth year showing up as 3.6 and 3.8?

 

[flataffect001]

I thought you had said your sGPA was 3.4 overall. What happened to the senior year and fifth year showing up as 3.6 and 3.8?

I based those numbers on the unofficial transcript from the school I graduated from alone. It took the transferrable grades from the community college into account but didn’t factor in any that didn't make the cut, including a D+ in microbiology back in spring of 2019. I got an A in microbio when I retook it in summer 2022—AMCAS (or at least a GPA calculator that works similarly) averaged them, but there wasn't even a hint that it was retaken on my transcript. I based the class level on the years I'd been in school, but withdrawing from a few courses at the community college set me back a year in class progression, as did failing classes at the second school.

For extra context, the Fall 2019/Spring 2020 year was my third year taking college classes, but I was still at the sophomore level on my transcript. In both semesters, I failed Orgo 1 and the respective lab; I didn’t go to class the first time because my head was too far up where the sun don’t shine. The second time, it was the start of the pandemic, and I was swabbing patients with what looked like high-calibre mascara brushes—Rhino Rocket galore.

Repeat COVID exposures meant repeat quarantine periods, and after missing 3 labs, my professor offered me an incomplete; of course, because I lacked any foresight, I declined.

I pondered dropping out over the summer that followed, but during the process of deciding what to do, I also spent time trying to understand how and why certain events in my life shaped me into the person I was at that point––the sort of person who felt deeply inadequate at their core yet insisted on running from things that triggered those feelings. In starting to understand who I was, it became easier not to let my experiences define me or my choices, and I began to heal. From there, I knew what I wanted to dedicate my life to. So, when I took Orgo 1 for the third time in the Fall 2020 semester, I got an A-. I also retook Cell Bio at the same time, bringing the D+ from the year before to an A. (...added calc based physics lecture/lab and medical sociology that semester as well--my GPA for the term was a 3.65 per my schools records)

Now, while it’s true that those F’s became an A- on my transcript, AMCAS isn't as forgiving or myopic; it sees all three shots.


At five credits a piece. And orgo is but one example.

 

[chilly_md]

I based those numbers on the unofficial transcript from the school I graduated from alone.

I see, that is frustrating it turned out like that. You can try to contact the registrar's office for the schools you attended about retroactively withdrawing from classes. That could change the math by quite a bit.

It would be hard to show a strong upward trend with the way your grades are combined. SMP with linkage might be the best option, depending on the rest of your application. Most of those would be DO schools, but Temple still seems to have one with a 3.6 requirement in the program and a 509 MCAT. You've met the MCAT part.

 

[Fluidity of Movement]

honestly i never got the "SDN is a vicious place" thing. Maybe back in the day when it still had a lot of premed echo chamber. But Reddit has become the echo chamber now, and SDN is mostly just experts giving good advice. I haven't seen anything mean, cruel, or even "you'll never be a doctor" by anyone in the almost year now I've been back on regularly. Pretty much every person I've seen has options forward, they just may not be the quick and easy ones they were hoping for.

And for god sake, there is always the sunscreen option if you have proven you can do it and just have bad luck at DO schools.