Is anyone considering the HSCP program?....and other questions.

[dtrainer]

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Having spent six years in the Air Force and hearing all of the negatives of military medicine, I had no inclination to pursue the HPSP scholarship. We recently had our ‘Welcome Weekend’ in San Antonio and the Army and Navy recruiters were there. I felt pretty immune from their sales pitches until the Navy told me about the HSCP program (information sheet attached). Suddenly I found myself considering a career in the Navy. I think the biggest selling point for me was that the time in the HSCP program is considered active duty time. After completing residency, I would only have to complete ten years as a Navy physician to retire and enter civilian medical practice. Is anyone else out there considering this program?

At 34, I must admit that money and financial security do play a role in my thought process. The thought of living like a pauper until I am 41 (or 43-44 depending on my specialty choice) does not appeal to me. While I cannot be entirely sure which specialty I will pursue, I predict it would be either medicine or pediatrics. I have a keen interest in infectious disease and could also see myself pursuing that as a subspecialty- not a very lucrative field. Plus my ID interests tend to center around parasitic diseases. It would seem the Navy would be a great place for pursuing such a career.

So I can see that HSCP program would actually put me ahead financially. What would it do for my medical career though? I am interested in academic medicine and could see a stent in the Navy as detrimental. When exiting the Navy would I find it difficult to enter the civilian academic world because I was trained in a military residency? How do Navy IM residencies compare to civilian residencies? Obviously, it is not like doing a residency at MGH, but is it still quality training?

I have a million questions running through my head so I apologize for the rambling nature of this message. If anyone is considering the HSCP I would like to hear their thoughts on it. I would also appreciate hearing the perspective of those more experienced in regard to the proper course one should chart if they wish to pursue a military/academic medicine career.

 

[NavyFP]

Having spent six years in the Air Force and hearing all of the negatives of military medicine, I had no inclination to pursue the HPSP scholarship. We recently had our ‘Welcome Weekend’ in San Antonio and the Army and Navy recruiters were there. I felt pretty immune from their sales pitches until the Navy told me about the HSCP program (information sheet attached). Suddenly I found myself considering a career in the Navy. I think the biggest selling point for me was that the time in the HSCP program is considered active duty time. After completing residency, I would only have to complete ten years as a Navy physician to retire and enter civilian medical practice. Is anyone else out there considering this program?

At 34, I must admit that money and financial security do play a role in my thought process. The thought of living like a pauper until I am 41 (or 43-44 depending on my specialty choice) does not appeal to me. While I cannot be entirely sure which specialty I will pursue, I predict it would be either medicine or pediatrics. I have a keen interest in infectious disease and could also see myself pursuing that as a subspecialty- not a very lucrative field. Plus my ID interests tend to center around parasitic diseases. It would seem the Navy would be a great place for pursuing such a career.

So I can see that HSCP program would actually put me ahead financially. What would it do for my medical career though? I am interested in academic medicine and could see a stent in the Navy as detrimental. When exiting the Navy would I find it difficult to enter the civilian academic world because I was trained in a military residency? How do Navy IM residencies compare to civilian residencies? Obviously, it is not like doing a residency at MGH, but is it still quality training?

I have a million questions running through my head so I apologize for the rambling nature of this message. If anyone is considering the HSCP I would like to hear their thoughts on it. I would also appreciate hearing the perspective of those more experienced in regard to the proper course one should chart if they wish to pursue a military/academic medicine career.

The big thing to remember is that it does not cover any of your school expenses. Since you are going to school in Texas, this will not be as big a deal. In-state tuition there is pretty cheap. You are also eligible for base housing. There is quite a bit of base housing in San Antonio (if that is where your school is) and you could live there.

You are correct that primary care is not as lucrative. If you are interested in ID, the Navy has a number of research spots around the globe, so you would have many opportunities. I can't see it hurting your ability to do academic medicine in the future. With the retirement, you would be more flexible about what you did in the civilian future.

 

[dtrainer]

Thanks for the insight, NavyFP. Luckily, I have a fair amount of my GI Bill left to pay for tuition, plus you are right- Texas schools are a bargain. UTHSCSA is only around $13K a year.

My biggest concerns are: 1) the quality of the residencies, and 2) the ability to complete one's GME uninterrupted.

I recently spoke with a soon to be Navy surgical intern and she said that she has already opted to spend her four year commitment as a GMO so that she could do a civilian surgical residency. I guess the surgical residencies are very anemic. Do you know if this extends to other Navy GME programs?

I am hoping that being a top performer in medical school with high board scores would increase my chances of being able to secure straight-through training. Do you know what rubric they use to decide who to retain and who to send off to GMO land? I would hope it isn't a total crapshoot. I would like to have some control over it and I hope that the Navy rewards academic and clinical performance.

Once again, thank you for your views.

 

[NavyFP]

Thanks for the insight, NavyFP. Luckily, I have a fair amount of my GI Bill left to pay for tuition, plus you are right- Texas schools are a bargain. UTHSCSA is only around $13K a year.

My biggest concerns are: 1) the quality of the residencies, and 2) the ability to complete one's GME uninterrupted.

I recently spoke with a soon to be Navy surgical intern and she said that she has already opted to spend her four year commitment as a GMO so that she could do a civilian surgical residency. I guess the surgical residencies are very anemic. Do you know if this extends to other Navy GME programs?

I am hoping that being a top performer in medical school with high board scores would increase my chances of being able to secure straight-through training. Do you know what rubric they use to decide who to retain and who to send off to GMO land? I would hope it isn't a total crapshoot. I would like to have some control over it and I hope that the Navy rewards academic and clinical performance.

Once again, thank you for your views.

As far as quality of residencies, you should get excellent training in any of the primary care specialties. The procedural specialties have been taking a hit for caseloads, but the program directors would defend the quality of the programs. Continuous training rates in the primary care specialties has been very high for many years. By the time you graduate, most of the residency programs will be offering continuous contracts for many of their positions. The graduating class of 2009 will have continuous contracts offered for FM and Psych. Plans are to expand this in the out years. If you are a top performer, you would be a desirable candidate for one of those contracts. The Navy does try to reward performance.

 

[SgtDoc]

Question- with HSCP, does your time in residency count towards retirement? From my understanding med school time does count, right?

 

[nata]

The HSCP program is the one that I am going to do. I will come on active duty this summer. I have about 10 years of active duty already. The time in school and the time in residency counts towards retirement, so by the time I do the payback after residency, I will be past 20. I just feel like this decision is a no-brainer for me. With the four years a med school counting towards retirement, that means that I will retire 4 years earlier. The money I make on the civilian side once I retire will more than make up for what I may or may not need to take in loans to finish school.

I'm doing HSCP even while looking at a tuition of about 24,000 / year. The GI bill will help, but certainly not cover tuition. Also, full medical and dental for my family (two kids) is huge for us.

 

[dtrainer]

nata-

Do you know when an individual in the HSCP program would go through commissioning training? My recruiter hasn't been able to answer this.

 

[nata]

I'm sorry I don't. I went through OCS in 2000, so I never asked my recruiter, but I'll try to find out for you. I would think it would be the same as the dental HSCP, whenever they do it, but I don't know that for a fact.

 

[primadonna22274]

I'm a 34 yo female, married PA (no kids) wanting to return to med school. I have no prior service military although my husband and both of his parents served in the Navy. I am strongly considering HPSP *if/when* I get accepted to med school for a number of reasons, but largely to offset costs of 1) giving up my PA income while in school and 2) avoiding a great deal more student loan debt (I still owe for PA school 8 years ago).
I'm comparing HPSP and HCSP; to me, it looks like HPSP is better, but what say you guys in the know? Also, this may be a silly question, but is it completely unrealistic to think the military might help with my PA loans as well?
I considered joining in 2001 when I was a new grad and just divorced; but then September 11th happened and I got gunshy. Strangely I'm older now and less fearful of the unknown than I was then.
thanks
Lisa

 

[NavyFP]

nata-

Do you know when an individual in the HSCP program would go through commissioning training? My recruiter hasn't been able to answer this.

You would go after graduation. You will not be a commissioned officer until that time.

I'm a 34 yo female, married PA (no kids) wanting to return to med school. I have no prior service military although my husband and both of his parents served in the Navy. I am strongly considering HPSP *if/when* I get accepted to med school for a number of reasons, but largely to offset costs of 1) giving up my PA income while in school and 2) avoiding a great deal more student loan debt (I still owe for PA school 8 years ago).
I'm comparing HPSP and HCSP; to me, it looks like HPSP is better, but what say you guys in the know? Also, this may be a silly question, but is it completely unrealistic to think the military might help with my PA loans as well?
I considered joining in 2001 when I was a new grad and just divorced; but then September 11th happened and I got gunshy. Strangely I'm older now and less fearful of the unknown than I was then.
thanks
Lisa

For you it would depend on the cost of your school. For relatively cheap Texas schools, HSCP can be better deal. As a whole though, HPSP is often the better choice.

 

[dtrainer]

You would go after graduation. You will not be a commissioned officer until that time.

I am just curious about the timing. I assume Navy residencies start at the same time as civilian ones. One would have to hope that they could fit in training between graduation and the start of residency.

 

[NavyFP]

I am just curious about the timing. I assume Navy residencies start at the same time as civilian ones. One would have to hope that they could fit in training between graduation and the start of residency.

It would depend on the actual graduation date and the ODS start dates. It can work out that you arrive on time and ready to go for internship, but some start a little late. Should you receive a full deferment, you would go after residency and before your report to your first duty station.

 

[primadonna22274]

That's what I thought too. Probably a long shot but thought I'd look at a few more expensive MD schools (St Louis, Creighton) and many of the DO schools are more expensive too.
Probably wouldn't do it if I got into my state school, but then I might.
Thanks
L.

For you it would depend on the cost of your school. For relatively cheap Texas schools, HSCP can be better deal. As a whole though, HPSP is often the better choice.

 

[dtrainer]

That's what I thought too. Probably a long shot but thought I'd look at a few more expensive MD schools (St Louis, Creighton) and many of the DO schools are more expensive too.
Probably wouldn't do it if I got into my state school, but then I might.
Thanks
L.

If you just plan on doing four years and then getting out, it is just a matter of running the numbers. When doing the calculations, remember to include your increased pay as an officer. An individual with no prior service that did HPSP would start out as a O-3/<2 years, while an individual that did the HSCP would be an O-3E/<4years. At current pay rates that is a $13.5K/year difference. Also, consider the insurance costs saved in the HSCP (since you are covered by Tri-care) if there are any savings. In the end, it probably won't make up for the difference in cost between state and private schools. If I would have stayed at Tulane, I would have went the HPSP route.

 

[mmc48]

I didn't see this in the document, since I skimmed it quickly, but are you required to take a military residency, or can you opt out and go into the civillian match?

 

[dtrainer]

I didn't see this in the document, since I skimmed it quickly, but are you required to take a military residency, or can you opt out and go into the civillian match?

You can't 'opt out' but you can apply for a civilian deferment which you may or may not get. Alternatively, you can do your internship in the military, fulfill your active duty obligation, and then get out and do a civilian residency.

 

[dtrainer]

The recruiter I am communicating with sent me this. I thought anyone interested might find this useful.

 

[ActiveDutyNavy]

I'm currently in the HSCP program at a medical school (MD) with no prior military service. My question is do you know if nonpriors go to OCS or ODS upon graduation?

Is there any drastic difference between the two?

 

[NavyFP]

I'm currently in the HSCP program at a medical school (MD) with no prior military service. My question is do you know if nonpriors go to OCS or ODS upon graduation?

Is there any drastic difference between the two?

Yes there is a difference, but you go to ODS.

 

[ActiveDutyNavy]

thank you

i knew there was a difference, just didn't know how much.

 

[NavyFP]

thank you

i knew there was a difference, just didn't know how much.

At OCS, they are treated as midshipman. They have a much more regimented life. I remember when I was a knife and fork that they weren
t allowed to talk during mealtime. Less liberty, more PT.

Since we were already comissioned, what could they really do to us? The only people to "fail" ODS are those who actively get themselves into trouble via alcohol and drugs. OCS, you can be canned at any time and sent to the fleet as a paint chipper.

 

[kkobgyn]

It would depend on the actual graduation date and the ODS start dates. It can work out that you arrive on time and ready to go for internship, but some start a little late. Should you receive a full deferment, you would go after residency and before your report to your first duty station.

I'm HSCP and I just discovered that I wouldn't be able to go to ODS until after graduation (it seems that with a new program, not many recruiters/program directors/etc know much about these things). When do most residency programs start and how much trouble does it cause to show up late? I was given the impression that trying to fit ODS in between graduation and the start of internship was looked on poorly by residency directors, but it seems that's our only option...