Is compensation for a physician significantly less...

[NickNaylor]

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I disagree that resident's salary isn't decent. If you are looking at the level of education, skill and responsibility, and especially if you are comparing it to the salary of an attending, then, yes, it's awful and can be likened to slave labor. If, however, you are simply looking at both the necessities and luxuries of life, I find it to be incredibly "decent". $50,000 or so a year ends up being over $4,000 a month. Is it enough to but a yacht? No, obviously not. Is it, however, enough to live comfortably (necessities easily met with money left over for the occasional outing)? It absolutely is. And, for quite a few specialties, it's only 3 - 4 years until one is bringing in the salary of an attending.

So much of this is perspective, I think. Coming from a disadvantaged family who never made over 28,000 a year (and that was a good year - most years it was closer to the 20,000 range) - with that money coming from a single mother who worked 4 jobs, seven days a week, 6am - 8:30-9:00pm - it would seem ludicrous to me to ever complain about about a 50k salary, especially with that money coming from doing a job that I actually want and enjoy. Even more so when, after 4 or so years, that salary will shoot up into the 6-figure range.

It's all relative. While I appreciate your sentiment, I think it's equally "ludicrous" that someone would pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, spend 11+ years in training, and make tremendous personal sacrifices to get paid a slightly above average salary. Plus, IIRC, you recently graduated high school. You're literally absolutely nowhere in this process. Perspectives tend to change once you actually have skin in the game. I'm not saying that it's expected, or even right, that physicians gradually become greedy bastards as they progress through their training, but it's extremely easy to say that you want very minimal compensation for a job that you haven't even begun the process of attempting to get into. Come back to me once you've passed up on experiences in college, medical school, and life generally in order to become a physician and let me know your opinion.

 

[Starlightembers]

It's all relative. While I appreciate your sentiment, I think it's equally "ludicrous" that someone would pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, spend 11+ years in training, and make tremendous personal sacrifices to get paid a slightly above average salary. Plus, IIRC, you recently graduated high school. You're literally absolutely nowhere in this process. Perspectives tend to change once you actually have skin in the game. I'm not saying that it's expected, or even right, that physicians gradually become greedy bastards as they progress through their training, but it's extremely easy to say that you want very minimal compensation for a job that you haven't even begun the process of attempting to get into. Come back to me once you've passed up on experiences in college, medical school, and life generally in order to become a physician and let me know your opinion.

To clarify my position, I don't believe that someone with that much training, ability and responsibility should be paid near minimum wage and, though I can't claim to understand the experience itself, I can certainly understand the frustration and overall feelings of burn out that come from the fact that, after spending 8 or so years in school, you still will not bring home the salary you spent that time training for until at least another three years. Nor, by any stretch, do I think that physicians should get paid less than they do or settle for making minimum wage.

My issue comes in when people treat a resident's salary as if it is poverty or will leave them living on the bare minimum needed to get by. Unless someone is attempting to live as if they are already an attending, 50,000 or so a year - even after taxes - is very easy to live comfortably on. If budgeted correctly, it will cover one's needs, pseudo-needs (things not required for life; but for Western society - internet, cell phone, etc) and quite a few luxuries on the side. Heck, if someone wouldn't mind limiting some of those luxuries, they could very likely start paying back something in terms of their educational debt. That is what I meant by "decent". As I said in my original post, if you look at in the context of training, it's awful and unfair; however, a lot of the posts go past that unfairness and frustration and seem to treat it as if they will be struggling to get by. Which, as far as I can tell, isn't true.

I do expect my perspectives to change many times over the next years - as they should - but I can't see that basic opinion changing. Furthermore, though I expect to go through the frustrations and depressions that are common in this path, I also can't envision myself not being thankful for that $50,000 a year salary. Of course, if that was the salary of an attending, I would be quite supportive of taking issue; but, in the grand scheme, it's likely only going to be 4 years of your life that you will be dealing with that salary (which, once again, is very easy to live off of; and I would imagine those years go by very, very quickly) and after that you are making a six figure salary. Once again, it's not ideal or fair; but it's a far cry from the despair that many seem to treat it as.

As I said, though, I am coming from a different background and perspective. Perhaps I should be enraged at the fact I will (if all goes well, of course) be making about $50,000 dollars for the first four years of my career and making that salary in a position that is grueling in its hours and substance; but I can't bring myself to be. Though everything is subject to change, I honestly feel I have been through so much worse* (and I do not say this as a complaint or whine) than working long hours and making $50,000 a year. Not that I expect it to be easy, by any means and I don't mean to invalidate the struggle and sacrifice of those who go through this, as it's not my intent; but it's not catastrophic, either.

I will certainly report back in 4 - 8 years, though, and see how much that's changed.

*Not going to get into details; but it goes beyond simply growing up in a poor household.

 

[mauberley]

The only thing you're not indicating you're accounting for is the fact that you have to make payments on your student loans on that resident's salary. I agree that $50,000 by itself is more than sufficient for one to live on, but only if you're not talking about including a minimum payment on a rather staggering debt.

 

[Starlightembers]

The only thing you're not indicating you're accounting for is the fact that you have to make payments on your student loans on that resident's salary. I agree that $50,000 by itself is more than sufficient for one to live on, but only if you're not talking about including a minimum payment on a rather staggering debt.

I included that in my consideration. Even with that totaled in, it should not be impossible if you budget correctly.* As I stated previously, you would have to cut down and restrict certain things; but you could defiantly do it for four or so years. This is especially so with residencies that offer some money to help you move and/or live.

* Other things would factor in. If one is attempting to support their stay at home spouse, three kids and two pet dogs, you will likely face more difficulty also paying off debt.

 

[NickNaylor]

I wasn't referring to resident salaries - I think low salaries are reasonable considering it's still training, though I will say that $50,000 may or may not afford living a "very comfortable" lifestyle. In some rural area or a suburb? Sure. In the Upper East Side of NYC? No way.

 

[mauberley]

I included that in my consideration. Even with that totaled in, it should not be impossible if you budget correctly.* As I stated previously, you would have to cut down and restrict certain things; but you could defiantly do it for four or so years. This is especially so with residencies that offer some money to help you move and/or live.

* Other things would factor in. If one is attempting to support their stay at home spouse, three kids and two pet dogs, you will likely face more difficulty also paying off debt.

I don't necessarily disagree. However, there are so many factors, including repayment of existing debt and cost of living, to account for. Just keep that in mind when making general statements about the value of a dollar earned. If you don't indicate that you're accounting for those variables, it's hard to take your comments seriously.

 

[45408]

Yes, but it depends. In a field like EM - from what I've gathered from my friends who have now finished EM residencies - your experience/career duration isn't that important, so your wage is more dependent on your location, shifts you take, and number of hours worked. One of my buddies was getting his first job that was paying WAY more than the average you cited.

Younger doctors may be willing to work more hours and crappier shifts.

In a specialty where experience is highly valued, then yes, you'll probably make less when you start out.

 

[Starlightembers]

I wasn't referring to resident salaries - I think low salaries are reasonable considering it's still training, though I will say that $50,000 may or may not afford living a "very comfortable" lifestyle. In some rural area or a suburb? Sure. In the Upper East Side of NYC? No way.

Ah, then I actually don't think we're on completely different pages.

Agreed, living comfortably in the Upper East Side of NYC would be difficult, though not absolutely impossible, on a resident's salary. If one is doing residency in NYC, however, it is not necessary - though it would make things easier - to live there. There are quite a few cheap exurbs not far up North that are connected to the city by train (or even cheaper areas within NYC, connected by subway).* One of the doctors I know did this. Was doing residency at NY-Presbyterian; but certainly not living there. Once again, if someone is trying to live as if they are already an attending (the Upper East Side), problems will arise.

*Though this was NYC specific, I am sure a similar arrangement can be found in other cities. I just stuck with that example as, coming from NY State, I know the geography well.

I don't necessarily disagree. However, there are so many factors, including repayment of existing debt and cost of living, to account for. Just keep that in mind when making general statements about the value of a dollar earned. If you don't indicate that you're accounting for those variables, it's hard to take your comments seriously.

I did mention debt, albeit briefly, in a previous post.

Once again, every case will be slightly different; but, as a general rule, it is possible to live comfortably on a resident's salary - once again, comfortably, by my definition, being necessities easily covered, pseudo-necessities (internet, cell phone, etc) easily covered and some luxuries being allowed every once in awhile (movie, out to eat, maybe a new electronic device, etc) - if one fiances intelligently. It won't always be comfortable on the emotional level, as a resident's salary is so much lower than that of an attending; but it's certainly not reason to cry poverty, either - which is what so many (on pre-med, anyways) seem to do.

 

[45408]

45% of surgeons expect to make over 250k their first year of practice...wtf...and it's "not out of line" for cardiologists, radiologists, etc? No fellowship just straight out of residency you have a chance at over 250k? With malpractice, at what, like 60k/yr?

Who said no fellowship?

Maybe the pay seemed a little far fetched to me. I'm used to kids in UG and around the bend saying "when I get my degree in XX, I'll get a job as YY and make over 120k starting out." And it never happens. Prospective people always seem to way overestimate pay, and this seemed like just another case.

Because I'm not "just starting out." I've got an additional 4 years of specialty education with another 5-6 years of on-the-job training. Physicians come out of training ready to hit the ground running. They still have plenty to learn, of course, but you've undergone tens of thousands of hours of training specific to your job. Somebody graduating with a BA in communications has no hours specific to anything at all.

I was working 50-70 hours a week after I graduated serving at restaurants to get a "feel" of what residency was like, and after a couple weeks I was used to it. Getting paid 3k a month after taxes was great. Not saying serving tables is comparable to residency, just saying that you can adapt to pretty much anything.

You should have stopped half way through that sentence. I worked some long hours in college before med school (36 straight hours on the clock between two jobs, up to 250 hours in 3 weeks), and it's completely different than a bunch of patients trying to die on you in the middle of the night as your pager is ringing off the hook.

 

[mauberley]

Ah, then I actually don't think we're on completely different pages.

Agreed, living comfortably in the Upper East Side of NYC would be difficult, though not absolutely impossible, on a resident's salary. If one is doing residency in NYC, however, it is not necessary - though it would make things easier - to live there. There are quite a few cheap exurbs not far up North that are connected to the city by train (or even cheaper areas within NYC, connected by subway).* One of the doctors I know did this. Was doing residency at NY-Presbyterian; but certainly not living there. Once again, if someone is trying to live as if they are already an attending (the Upper East Side), problems will arise.

*Though this was NYC specific, I am sure a similar arrangement can be found in other cities. I just stuck with that example as, coming from NY State, I know the geography well.


I did mention debt, albeit briefly, in a previous post.

Once again, every case will be slightly different; but, as a general rule, it is possible to live comfortably on a resident's salary - once again, comfortably, by my definition, being necessities easily covered, pseudo-necessities (internet, cell phone, etc) easily covered and some luxuries being allowed every once in awhile (movie, out to eat, maybe a new electronic device, etc) - if one fiances intelligently. It won't always be comfortable on the emotional level, as a resident's salary is so much lower than that of an attending; but it's certainly not reason to cry poverty, either - which is what so many (on pre-med, anyways) seem to do.

Most rants of pre-meds are uninformed. I generally pay no attention to them except when I have nothing else to do.

 

[45408]

I disagree that resident's salary isn't decent. If you are looking at the level of education, skill and responsibility, and especially if you are comparing it to the salary of an attending, then, yes, it's awful and can be likened to slave labor. If, however, you are simply looking at both the necessities and luxuries of life, I find it to be incredibly "decent". $50,000 or so a year ends up being over $4,000 a month. Is it enough to but a yacht? No, obviously not. Is it, however, enough to live comfortably (necessities easily met with money left over for the occasional outing)? It absolutely is. And, for quite a few specialties, it's only 3 - 4 years until one is bringing in the salary of an attending.

Funny, my $50,000 salary turns out to be $3000 a month after taxes and all that good stuff.

So much of this is perspective, I think.

Exactly. Wait until you're a resident, and you've got the perspective that you're being paid less per hour than everyone else there. Yes, I'm paid less per hour than the nurse's aides, especially some weeks.

Please, no one is making a sacrifice to become a doctor. As I recall we all jumped through a million hoops just to get here. No one is making you do this. If you seriously think this is a sacrifice, please feel free to stop. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people that would take your place and with a smile.

No.

 

[Starlightembers]

Funny, my $50,000 salary turns out to be $3000 a month after taxes and all that good stuff.

Exactly. Wait until you're a resident, and you've got the perspective that you're being paid less per hour than everyone else there. Yes, I'm paid less per hour than the nurse's aides, especially some weeks.

Thank you for commenting, Prowler; you're a considerably better source than us speculative premedical posters.

Question, though. You brought up the emotional aspect - that it's frustrating, awful and unfair; which I agree, it is - but, in my posts, I was referring more to actually how livable it is. Do you find it hard to actually afford food, electricity, heat, TV, internet, cell phone, etc? If your hours would actually allow it, would you be able to, say, see a movie or go out to eat with friends? That was more what I was referring to.

And I certainly hope I can get to a point to have that perspective.

 

[45408]

Thank you for commenting, Prowler; you're a considerably better source than us speculative premedical posters.

Question, though. You brought up the emotional aspect - that it's frustrating, awful and unfair; which I agree, it is - but, in my posts, I was referring more to actually how livable it is. Do you find it hard to actually afford food, electricity, heat, TV, internet, cell phone, etc? If your hours would actually allow it, would you be able to, say, see a movie or go out to eat with friends? That was more what I was referring to.

And I certainly hope I can get to a point to have that perspective.

If you're single, then of course $50K/year is a decent living wage. However, that's the highest salary you'll see as an intern. Some places are in the low $40s. Also, the smart thing to do is to start paying off your loans, and even the income-based repayment is going to take a decent chunk out of your salary.

In addition, some of us are married and have started having kids. My loans are just increasing in size now. Can people raise a family on $50K/year? Yes, but references to what your parents did aren't that relevant now. Your parents probably didn't have college loans, and they definitely didn't have med school loans anywhere near the size that I do. Other costs like health insurance premiums have far outpaced inflation. My parents' health insurance premiums were over $1000/week until about two years ago, and that wasn't even for a very comprehensive policy (this was when my dad's business was providing the insurance). You would not be supporting a family at all on an income of $50K/year if your insurance premiums consumed that entire amount.

 

[Druggernaut]

I'm not really sure why it's a point for debate whether it's difficult to live on or not. Residents obviously haven't starved to death, and they're not fighting with hobos for space to put their cardboard box under the overpass. But it's a distasteful thought that when I'm 30, with a college degree, medical degree, and several years of residency under my belt, I'll be earning less hourly than I did at 21 working as a tech in the ED, which I was qualified to do after a 4 credit course at a tech school.

There's some dangerous mindsets going on here. Don't think the politicians and administrators wouldn't be happy to take you down to whatever standard of living you think would be just barely palatable. Why willingly devalue yourselves?

 

[NickNaylor]

There's some dangerous mindsets going on here. Don't think the politicians and administrators wouldn't be happy to take you down to whatever standard of living you think would be just barely palatable. Why willingly devalue yourselves?

This I think is the most important thing in this discussion, especially the last sentence.

 

[circulus vitios]

Why willingly devalue yourselves?

It's usually premeds and medical students doing the devaluing, not so much the residents.

 

[Narmerguy]

No.

Actually...yes. Many people enjoy residency. I'm sure someone whose only alternative is not being a doctor at all would enjoy it even more.

I'm not really sure why it's a point for debate whether it's difficult to live on or not. Residents obviously haven't starved to death, and they're not fighting with hobos for space to put their cardboard box under the overpass. But it's a distasteful thought that when I'm 30, with a college degree, medical degree, and several years of residency under my belt, I'll be earning less hourly than I did at 21 working as a tech in the ED, which I was qualified to do after a 4 credit course at a tech school.

There's some dangerous mindsets going on here. Don't think the politicians and administrators wouldn't be happy to take you down to whatever standard of living you think would be just barely palatable. Why willingly devalue yourselves?

It's not that I'm willing to devalue myself. I'm just not willing to join the collective bemoaning about our wages in salary when we all willingly choose this path. I'm not saying "'slash all I got" or advocating any kind of payment cut at all. Of course I'm happy to get paid as much as someone wants to pay me. But to complain about what we're getting paid just smacks of a total loss of perspective. No one forced any of us to do this. Each of us chose this path, competed for it even. If you suddenly don't think the prize is worth the work, we're supposed to ask people to feel sorry for us? If other careers have it so much better, then why'd you enter this profession?

 

[Starlightembers]

If you're single, then of course $50K/year is a decent living wage. However, that's the highest salary you'll see as an intern. Some places are in the low $40s. Also, the smart thing to do is to start paying off your loans, and even the income-based repayment is going to take a decent chunk out of your salary.

In addition, some of us are married and have started having kids. My loans are just increasing in size now. Can people raise a family on $50K/year? Yes, but references to what your parents did aren't that relevant now. Your parents probably didn't have college loans, and they definitely didn't have med school loans anywhere near the size that I do. Other costs like health insurance premiums have far outpaced inflation. My parents' health insurance premiums were over $1000/week until about two years ago, and that wasn't even for a very comprehensive policy (this was when my dad's business was providing the insurance). You would not be supporting a family at all on an income of $50K/year if your insurance premiums consumed that entire amount.

Point taken and understood. If one has a family to support, the situation is obviously going to be much more difficult to manage and cope with. I was very much looking at this through the lens of single or married (for either, without kids) resident and elaborating based upon that situation, likely because that is the situation I will be in (if I get in and, of course, if I match; I'm younger than the average college premed). Also, I agree that health insurance is inhumanely expensive, especially in context of what you get from it (mother has privatized health insurance and it covers little with co-pays so high she can't afford them, anyways), and see the weight of that expense.

Though, I still think my point still holds. In one of my previous posts, I did mention that if one has a family to support, it is going to be considerably harder and I grant that exception.

Thank you again for contributing, Prowler.

There's some dangerous mindsets going on here. Don't think the politicians and administrators wouldn't be happy to take you down to whatever standard of living you think would be just barely palatable. Why willingly devalue yourselves?

It's not about devaluing oneself, or being OK with lower pay. As I have stated, I think it's unfair that residents, who have been in school for eight or so years (minimum), get paid that little. It's wrong and I don't agree with it. And if anyone advocated paying full-fledged attending physicians that much, I would be enraged. My point was more that, for most, it's a very livable salary and not worth the panic that many seem to talk about it as.

 

[45408]

Actually...yes. Many people enjoy residency. I'm sure someone whose only alternative is not being a doctor at all would enjoy it even more.

So? I enjoy much of residency too, but this "You'll eat a poop hot dog, and you'll do it with a smile on your face" attitude is exclusive to this forum. If you get to residency, you'll have plenty of times you want to complain, and your peers won't chastise you for doing so.

It's not that I'm willing to devalue myself. I'm just not willing to join the collective bemoaning about our wages in salary when we all willingly choose this path. I'm not saying "'slash all I got" or advocating any kind of payment cut at all. Of course I'm happy to get paid as much as someone wants to pay me. But to complain about what we're getting paid just smacks of a total loss of perspective. No one forced any of us to do this. Each of us chose this path, competed for it even. If you suddenly don't think the prize is worth the work, we're supposed to ask people to feel sorry for us? If other careers have it so much better, then why'd you enter this profession?

No, it doesn't. It just smacks of your lack of perspective.

 

[mitchlucker]

Who said no fellowship?

I was just assuming that based on the article. In the article they were discussing residents in their final year, and what they expected to earn starting out. And I was assuming these were all people who didn't want to go into fellowships.

Unrelated to OP, but I would assume Prowler has the best bet at answering these questions I have:

How competitive are fellowships?
How much do fellowships really add to your resume?

My guesses are "depends on the fellowship" and "depends on the specialty (EM vs. Cardiology)"

 

[deleted393595]

.

 

[45408]

I was just assuming that based on the article. In the article they were discussing residents in their final year, and what they expected to earn starting out. And I was assuming these were all people who didn't want to go into fellowships.

Unrelated to OP, but I would assume Prowler has the best bet at answering these questions I have:

How competitive are fellowships?
How much do fellowships really add to your resume?

My guesses are "depends on the fellowship" and "depends on the specialty (EM vs. Cardiology)"

depends on the fellowship

depends on the specialty

Most fellowships aren't that competitive because it's not like there are far more applicants than positions, the way it is with med school. In my field - surgery - there are a few that are extremely competitive, like pediatrics, followed probably by surgical oncology and hepatobiliary. Other specialties like cardiothoracic, vascular and transplant aren't considered competitive, provided you're an otherwise qualified applicant. Some programs are obviously more desirable than others and are more competitive. Pediatric surgery is very competitive in large part due to the very small number of programs out there, and it's a fascinating specialty. It's not really lifestyle friendly or particularly lucrative, to my knowledge.

In IM, cardiology and GI are competitive, whereas something like palliative isn't.

 

[StephanieZ]

In addition, some of us are married and have started having kids. My loans are just increasing in size now. Can people raise a family on $50K/year? Yes, but references to what your parents did aren't that relevant now. Your parents probably didn't have college loans, and they definitely didn't have med school loans anywhere near the size that I do.

What chunk of your resident salary is taken out for your loans? Surely they take a percentage of what you're earning right?

I just don't really get the point. You get paid nothing DURING the four years of medical school, but suddenly when you do start getting paid something, it isn't enough? If everything is relative like you (I believe) said, wouldn't that 50K look like a small fortune after spending 4 years living on loans? I'm sure there are MS3 and MS4's living on ramen noodles who would gladly trade places with you...

 

[NickNaylor]

What chunk of your resident salary is taken out for your loans? Surely they take a percentage of what you're earning right?

I just don't really get the point. You get paid nothing DURING the four years of medical school, but suddenly when you do start getting paid something, it isn't enough? If everything is relative like you (I believe) said, wouldn't that 50K look like a small fortune after spending 4 years living on loans? I'm sure there are MS3 and MS4's living on ramen noodles who would gladly trade places with you...

What you're missing is that you aren't getting $50k in discretionary spending. This is rough math, but $50k will be taxed at approximately 25%, so that leaves you with ~$38k. Additionally, if you use income-based repayment to repay loans, your monthly loan payment for a $50k income will be ~$5k each year. At this point you're left with about $33k, so you'll have approximately $2,750 in money to live on each month.

No one is saying this isn't absolutely impossible. What people ARE saying is that this isn't a significant amount of money, ESPECIALLY if you have a family. Good luck surviving off of that if you have kids. This is slightly more than what I'm provided with in my loans for school in Chicago. As Prowler mentioned, however, $50k is the TOP end of salaries. Most salaries I've seen are in the low $40k range, so if we assume $42k, that will leave you with about $2,325 per month. Nominally that's not a big difference, but I assure that it is when you're using that money to live off. Hell, that's even less than what we're provided with in our cost of attendance estimate in medical school.

Keep in mind this is while working "80" hours each week as a medical professional.

 

[NickNaylor]

I want to add that despite, considering the work and skills required to be a resident, the fact that this is a pretty paltry sum, I'm fine with that because residency is still a training period. I just find it a bit silly that people think this is somehow a fortune.

 

[Morsetlis]

Yes, but it depends. In a field like EM - from what I've gathered from my friends who have now finished EM residencies - your experience/career duration isn't that important, so your wage is more dependent on your location, shifts you take, and number of hours worked. One of my buddies was getting his first job that was paying WAY more than the average you cited.

Younger doctors may be willing to work more hours and crappier shifts.

In a specialty where experience is highly valued, then yes, you'll probably make less when you start out.

Absolutely true.

However remember that they tend to get paid more as they get older, and they work less, too 😀

Perks!

 

[Narmerguy]

No, it doesn't. It just smacks of your lack of perspective.

Perhaps you're right. But I think you'll find that the vast majority of people will find it hard to understand your perspective. Everyone makes choices in life that they regret. A lot of people work jobs that are hard. Our hard life entails long periods of training and a near guarantee of around $150,000 a year or more. So perhaps you'll excuse my lack of perspective when I say that this is not that bitter of a pill to swallow. Like I said, we pushed and shoved to be the first in line to swallow it.

 

[Gut Shot]

What chunk of your resident salary is taken out for your loans? Surely they take a percentage of what you're earning right?

Usually 0%. The vast majority of residents/fellows will defer or forebear their loans during training, despite accrual of interest. Occasionally you will find someone who is extremely frugal, or someone with a high earning spouse, who may choose to devote some of their income to debt repayment. These people are the exceptions, however. For the rest of us mortals the time-value of money dictates a different course of action.

 

[circulus vitios]

Usually 0%. The vast majority of residents/fellows will defer or forebear their loans during training, despite accrual of interest. Occasionally you will find someone who is extremely frugal, or someone with a high earning spouse, who may choose to devote some of their income to debt repayment. These people are the exceptions, however. For the rest of us mortals the time-value of money dictates a different course of action.

I thought forbearance was no longer an option? Or did "they" decide against it?

 

[Gut Shot]

I thought forbearance was no longer an option? Or did "they" decide against it?

What is eroding is the interest subsidy. You can still forbear while in residency.

 

[45408]

What chunk of your resident salary is taken out for your loans? Surely they take a percentage of what you're earning right?

Look up forbearance, deferring, and income-based repayment.

I just don't really get the point. You get paid nothing DURING the four years of medical school, but suddenly when you do start getting paid something, it isn't enough? If everything is relative like you (I believe) said, wouldn't that 50K look like a small fortune after spending 4 years living on loans? I'm sure there are MS3 and MS4's living on ramen noodles who would gladly trade places with you...

It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Don't you think I was recently a medical student and would know the difference between being a med student and a resident? Meanwhile, you haven't been either of those?

Pro-tip: you're very foolish if you think a $50K salary provides you with $50K more in spending money than you had as an M4.

 

[mrwesticles]

Patient, dude. You'll be fine.