IS FUNDING AVAILABLE FOR PSYD PROGRAMS?

[psych1391]

Hi!
I am from India and I am looking at pursuing my doctoral studies in psychology in the USA or Canada.I have completed my Masters in psychological counselling in India and would have about 1.2 to 1.5 years of work experience in school counselling and EAP.Prior to that I have had internship experience(Masters level practicum hours)of about 1 year in different sectors of counselling to gain an understanding of how things work.
I have been trying to find PsyD in counselling psychology programs but have learned that there are very few that are accredited(correct me if I'm wrong).Can someone please clear these questions so I have a better understanding of whether I should take up doctoral studies in the US at all.
1.Are there any funded PsyD counselling programs?If so,info on such colleges would be very helpful.
2.Is it true that most people who want to get into a sub-field of counselling like MFT stop at their Masters level. I have been told that clients prefer and can afford a MFT therapist over a counselling psychologist?
3.Is it true that APA does not accredit counselling programs?what is the accreditation that I should be looking for?is it ACA?
4.what are the sort of jobs a counselling psychologist would get on completion of the program and what would be the remuneration?
5.I am trying to keep my options open.I do not have a research background or a clinical background but I am willing to take up some extra courses for the same.would it be wise or would I even get accepted into a clinical PsyD program or counselling PhD program(due to availability of funding)?I was thinking about a clinical PsyD program/counselling PhD with a dissertation concentrated on family and marriage.

6.A clinical psychologist from California had suggested i look up programs in India or Asia due to the difficulties in getting a VISA and the finances as I intend to work in the US if i graduate from an American college.I have also been reading about the huge debts you end up with after the program which scares me a little bit.Is it true that it takes awfully long to clear out your debts?I am currently 23 and I'm looking at 2016 fall intake.would it be safe to assume that I would finish my doctoral studies and licensure exam by 2021 IF i do get into a good program?


my questions might be repeated and I'm very sorry for that!But I am extremely confused!I have tried to find some threads for international students trying to pursue their grad studies in psychology but haven't been too successful.any suggestions?

Any help would be great!🙂

Thanks a lot!

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[ClinicalABA]

Hi!
1.Are there any funded PsyD counselling programs?If so,info on such colleges would be very helpful.

Take a look at http://apps.apa.org/accredsearch/. It is an online tool for searching for APA accredited graduate training programs in Psychology (you really shouldn't consider non-accredited programs). You can filter your search by type of program (e.g. "counseling") and degree (e.g. "Psy.D."). I did that search, and there only appear to be 5 APA Accredited Counseling Psy.D. programs. If you follow the links to the individual program websites, you should be able to find some type of link for "Student amdissions, outcomes, and other data" from which you may find info on program costs. Be careful though- many programs may list the per credit program costs here, even though all or most students are fully funded. As a general rule, programs that fully fund their students tend to have very small class sizes (less than 10 per year), whereas programs with large class sizes (10+) tend not to fully fund students.

Do you have a specific, rational reason for limiting yourself to counseling Psy.D. programs? That's a very restrictive criterion. You might want to start by figuring out what type of work, specifically, you would like to do, and where you would like to do it. Then determine what degree and type of training is necessary to be licensed or credentialed to do that type of work. At that point, you could then identify specific training programs that would provide the necessary training and degree. I really don't think that there is anything about what a Counseling Psy.D. could offer (vs. say, a Clinical Ph.D., or Clinical Psy.D.) that would lend credence to such a restricted criteria for program selection.

2.Is it true that most people who want to get into a sub-field of counselling like MFT stop at their Masters level.

MFT is generally (exclusively?) licensed at the Master's level.In the US, the vast majority of mental health clinicians are licensed at the state level, so degree requirements may vary. I am not aware of any MFT licensure that requires anything beyond a masters degree.

I have been told that clients prefer and can afford a MFT therapist over a counselling psychologist?

I'm not aware of any hard data on client preference for MFT vs. counseling pscyhologist- I'd chalk that one up to unfounded rumor or misconception. Regarding affordability of different therapists, reimbursement for mental health services in the US are very complex. Services are often funded by insurance companies, who may put stipulations or caps and what type of therapist plan member can see and how much will be paid. My experiences (somewhat limited, so interpret cautiously) is that the clients are often unaware of the specific therapy costs between different degreed therapists, and the difference in cost between a psychologist and MFT does not often factor into consumer decision making). I'm guessing this was another unfounded rumor or misconception on the part of the person(s) giving you this information.

3.Is it true that APA does not accredit counselling programs?what is the accreditation that I should be looking for?is it ACA?

See the link above- APA does accredit counseling programs. There is also an accrediting body called CACREP (http://www.cacrep.org/) that accredits cousneling programs specifically. I am not aware of the specific advantages of a CACREP accredited program, but there are several DISADVANTAGES of a non-APA accredited program, including not being eligible for certain internships, ineligibility for licensure in certain states, and a much more cumbersome licensure application process in most states.

4.what are the sort of jobs a counselling psychologist would get on completion of the program and what would be the remuneration?

Vs. another doctoral level psychologist degree? Maybe it would give you an advantage for University Counseling Center positions? I don't have a lot of specific knowledge here and will defer to others.

5.I am trying to keep my options open.I do not have a research background or a clinical background but I am willing to take up some extra courses for the same.would it be wise or would I even get accepted into a clinical PsyD program or counselling PhD program(due to availability of funding)?I was thinking about a clinical PsyD program/counselling PhD with a dissertation concentrated on family and marriage.

Acceptance into a funded doctoral level program, regardless of degree granted, is highly competitive, and probably unlikely without at least some experience. I, personally, would be very skeptical of the quality of any doctoral program that accepted students with no clinical experience or at least coursework in clinical research/statistics.

6.A clinical psychologist from California had suggested i look up programs in India or Asia due to the difficulties in getting a VISA and the finances as I intend to work in the US if i graduate from an American college.

There may be barriers to your training in the US related to your non-citizenship status. Some of these will be related to VISAs and being able to work (including during graduate school and on internships). There may be other barriers related to the equivalencies in undergraduate education between US and other countries. I'd suggested contacting a director of training at a program you might potentially be interested in- she or he should be able to answer questions about international students.

I have also been reading about the huge debts you end up with after the program which scares me a little bit.Is it true that it takes awfully long to clear out your debts?I am currently 23 and I'm looking at 2016 fall intake.would it be safe to assume that I would finish my doctoral studies and licensure exam by 2021 IF i do get into a good program?

Educational debt can be a long and lengthy burden. I went to a fully funded Clinical Ph.D. program, and I still have large student loans (from undergrad primarily, but even full funding and stipend from RAs, TAs, and funded practicum was not enough that I didn't require some loans to help out). Loan payment begins shortly after you graduate, and 20 year payment plans are common. If you are funding a full graduate education with loans, you might be looking at $100K plus of educational debt, with $1000 + monthly payments. That is a very big burden and a difficult way to start out your carreer.

my questions might be repeated and I'm very sorry for that!But I am extremely confused!I have tried to find some threads for international students trying to pursue their grad studies in psychology but haven't been too successful.any suggestions?

Any help would be great!🙂

Thanks a lot!

Best of Luck

 

[psych1391]

Thanks a lot clinical ABA!that was of great help!🙂
I was mainly restricting my options to counselling PsyD as I somehow feel like I do not have the background needed for a clinical program and might eventually find it hard to cope up with the program even if i get in.Could you tell me if a clinical psychology program has appreciable difference from a counselling psychology program?
This are 2 distinct fields in India.There are several things counselling psychologists are not qualified to do which clinical psychologists can and sometimes vice versa.
I understand that the tuition fee is very expensive,especially when you convert it to Indian currency.But I do have some support from my parents if not the full fee. The info you shared on CACREP and APA was very helpful.Thanks a lot!

 

[Phipps]

Hi Psych1391:
I have a friend who is an international student and got accepted into the following PhD program at Drexel University. Sounds like that program might be a good fit?

http://drexel.edu/cnhp/academics/doctoral/PHD-Couple-Family-Therapy/

Most PhD programs have funding, some more than others, but usually it covers most of the tuition (or should...). Could you come on a student visa? You would need to take the TOEFL first. As another poster suggested, I'd email directors of programs you are interested in and see how they respond. Do you have an area you would like to focus on? If so, that helps when looking into programs. The one at Drexel is sort of a Counseling Program but of course, there is always overlap with clinical areas. Good luck!!

 

[PsyDr]

HEY EVERYONE, I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO DO A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH. GIVE ME ANSWERS!

 

[ClinicalABA]

HEY EVERYONE, I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO DO A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH. GIVE ME ANSWERS!

Maybe true, but it's an overwhelming process and the OP seemed to have some general misunderstanding of the types of programs that were applicable. Also, I don't think you can discount the overwhelming, manipulative, and shady web presence of Some of the more disreputable "training programs" (heck, look to the top/bottom/of your screen right now). Googling "doctoral psych training" without more specific terms is likely to lead to some carefully crafted online sales pitches. I chose to give the OP the benefit of the doubt- ignorance rather than laziness. Admonishment is, imo, counterproductive and might scare away those who truly are just confused and honestly looking for some guidance.

 

[smalltownpsych]

HEY EVERYONE, I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO DO A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH. GIVE ME ANSWERS!

Isn't a big part of the reason for this website is for students to come on the site and ask questions? Just want to remind you that teaching, self-awareness and regulation, and interpersonal skills are often considered part of our core competencies. I just don't think your post aligns well with that.

 

[PsyDr]

There's nuanced questions, or just general questions. I have no problem with that. There are tons of well thought out questions now on here all the time, and i have contributed periodically to such lines of inquiry. I do have a problem with someone trying to get others to do the most basic of work.

Are counseling programs apa accredited? Jeez. Type that into google and the apa accreditation website pops up as the first result. Funding info is in there by program. How much are you going to help someon who can't click on the first result of the most common search engine in the USA? Not much.

How much do psychologists get paid? Bls, glass door, salary.com all immediately pop up. There are also several sdn threads about this. How much are you going to help someone who can't look at these results?

There is a big difference between students asking questions after finding basic information confusing and someone who has done no work asking for the information to be aggregated by others. As with any pursuit, learning enough to ask the proper questions is a key indicator of good outcome. Sdn terms of service indicate that it is not okay to ask posters to do their homework. I don't see how this is any different.


Small town: I disagree. Teaching requires some effort on the part of the student. I'm sure you have seen professors chide students for not doing the reading. Interpersonal skills is not limited to giving people what they want, or never expressing frustration. Never has been in the literature. Self regulation does not preclude such expressions. I thought the expression of derision for someone who says that they want to pursue a 5-7 year educational endeavor without reading the most basic of web searches or buying the book from the authority on this subject was appropriate.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I hear your points and agree for the most part, but the OP also reported that he was from another country so I would be more inclined to cut them some slack. I have no idea what a "Masters in psychological counselling in India" entails or if it has any equivalency here. I also think that the derision is not indicated until the poster responds to other posters helpful information with "You guys are wrong. I can get an online doctorate and will be just as good as you elitist psychologists!" At that point, it is time to pile on the derision in massive doses!

 

[PsyDr]

I would think the amount of inquiry one would be reasonable in pursuing when thinking about moving from one country to another to spend 5-7 years would be higher, not lower. I would also expect someone who has an MA to be able to look up the basic of questions.

Lets be honest: if someone can't be bothered to google apa accredited programs, and then click like three buttons, their chances of getting into a program is likely low. There are tons of student on here who have spent hours learning about things so that they can better understand the educational process and the profession, and the asked all manner of cogent , well thought out, and helpful questions (for themselves and others). I want those people as colleagues and hope they get funding from my tax dollars and donations. I do not want lazy people who cannot do the most basic of work.

 

[psych1391]

HEY EVERYONE, I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO DO A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH. GIVE ME ANSWERS!

Hi PSYDR.
Looks like I've annoyed you with my questions.Well,firstly that wasn't my intention and secondly its strange how you took the pain to read my lengthy post and reply in such a patronizing manner.If you found it that annoying,simply ignoring would do.Looks like you're a 'know it all' person and anybody looking for help tend to put you off.
I come from a place where people are still not sure about what psychologists do for a living forget what APA is.so please cut me slack if I've taken up an unconventional field(the place where I come from) and find it hard to get help around here.Cut me some slack if I want to get as much help and clarity as I can,before I spend 200 thousand dollars (1.5 to 2 crores in Indian rupees)and 5 years of my life on a program in a completely new country to me!
I do have the common sense to Google all the information I've asked and which I have already done.But,its as simple as I would trust someone's experience over extremely different and inconsistent information that's available on various websites.
After contacting a university in Chicago(which I did out of common sense) I was told that counselling programs are NOT accredited by APA at all and only clinical programs are.Now,confusion would obviously follow as I have seen APA accredited counselling programs online but the international student coordinator is saying so.I would like to what you would do in such a situation?
Some Websites tell me a counselling psychologist would be earning about 60kdollars approx but some mention 45k.
So I didn't see any harm in getting a realistic view from some practioners or students.
I have already mentioned in my post that most of my questions could be repeated and its hard to find international threads which is why I was looking for help.But I must say that if you don't wish to help,I understand.But this was quite rude.This is a forum to help students after all. Lastly I would just like to say you have every right to call yourself intelligent,diligent etc but you absolutely have NO right to call someone else stupid,lazy etc;especially when you have no idea of who I am or my background.
Thanks anyway!

 

[psych1391]

Thanks a lot clinicalABA,small townpsych and phipps.Thanks for your support. I will look into Drexel university.

 

[chicandtoughness]

After contacting a university in Chicago(which I did out of common sense) I was told that counselling programs are NOT accredited by APA at all and only clinical programs are.Now,confusion would obviously follow as I have seen APA accredited counselling programs online but the international student coordinator is saying so.

Important distinction here. Counseling psychology is not the same as counseling.

APA accredits counseling *psychology* programs. These are doctoral level programs that focus on applying psychology towards programs individuals have with their everyday lives - it can include things like vocational psychology, relationships, anxiety, etc. There will be a significant research component and a required internship (hopefully at an APA/APPIC accredited site!)

Counseling programs are accredited by CACREP. CACREP accredits both master's and doctoral programs, but ONLY in Counseling, not Counseling Psychology. The aim of most students going into pure counseling programs are psychotherapy-based careers. For example, working at a university career counseling center, or school counseling, etc. At the doctoral level, most counseling programs tend to lean towards "counselor education" programs and are housed in the College of Education. You cannot become a psychologist with a PhD in Counseling/Counselor Education. At most, you will be an LPC/LMHC (which only requires a masters). A lot of people who do the doctoral programs are actually more interested in research/administration instead of active therapy.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Important distinction here. Counseling psychology is not the same as counseling.

In the US, apparently in India it is different, hence the confusion. I gather from reading other threads that many countries don't have the equivalent of a Psychologist and tend to just have a mix of non-doctoral counselors and therapists. Also, a MA degree in one country is not always the same as in another.

I would suggest that the OP continue reading on these boards to educate themselves more about this career path. Also, this board might be helpful too. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/mental-health-and-social-welfare.207/

 

[chicandtoughness]

In the US, apparently in India it is different, hence the confusion. I gather from reading other threads that many countries don't have the equivalent of a Psychologist and tend to just have a mix of non-doctoral counselors and therapists. Also, a MA degree in one country is not always the same as in another.

OP stated he intended to work in the US after graduation, so I figured it would be prudent to explain the differences as they stand in the States, before he stumbled into the wrong program due to terminology confusion 🙂

 

[smalltownpsych]

OP stated he intended to work in the US after graduation, so I figured it would be prudent to explain the differences as they stand in the States, before he stumbled into the wrong program due to terminology confusion 🙂

I wasn't disagreeing, just adding on for the OPs clarification that the US is completely different. 🙂

 

[psych1391]

Important distinction here. Counseling psychology is not the same as counseling.

oh wow!This information is brilliant! In India it would pretty much mean the same, counselling psychology or psychological counselling or counselling despite the difference in terminology(in terms of the course content).Maybe wrong but as far as I know, we don't really have just"counselling" courses here.All of them are counselling psychology:as per what you have said applying psychology to the field of counselling.Your description fits well with the Masters course I have done-practicum hours,supervision etc.BUT its a non-thesis one.
I would like to ask you, what about PsyD programs in counselling Psychology? I do understand that they entail research and it is a significant component.But their concentration is on practice over research;mainly aiming at making you responsible practitioners.Like Univeristy of St.Thomas.
http://www.stthomas.edu/media/celc/academicpages/counseling/PsyD-Program-Overview.pdf.

These programs are accredited by APA but as per what I understand its looks like you would more likely do the same thing as a counselor from a Counselling course (doctoral level) accredited by CACREP, would do.So is it only the tag"psychologist" that is differentiating the both?I am only trying to understand the difference.Please bear with me if I say something wrong.

In the US, apparently in India it is different, hence the confusion. I gather from reading other threads that many countries don't have the equivalent of a Psychologist and tend to just have a mix of non-doctoral counselors and therapists. Also, a MA degree in one country is not always the same as in another

That is true.In India,clinical psychologists are considered higher than counselling psychologists.There is a definite hierarchy.They are paid more,get more job opportunities and are given more preference.This is probably because there is an actual licensing board called the RCI for clinical licensing and not for counselling psychologists. Infact,some people with a diploma in counselling psychology call themselves a psychologist. :/ Counselors call themselves therapists,life coaches and counselors very interchangeably.Not all though! Its still a developing field here.Hence,my interest in the US and Canada.
Thanks!