Is initiating prayer with a patient unprofessional?

[ArcGurren]

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Motherf... wow this discussion went off the deep end quick. As religious as I may be this is why I absolutely loathe discussing it with people.

Anyway, funny aside - I did the UW question about it and it suggests you shut up about your own religious beliefs and just say something PC to the person (i.e. "I'll keep you in my thoughts"), because you're there to do no harm... so why would you aggravate your patient who's going in for a cath?

 

[SexySurgeon82]

Well it's not like you're dating your patient or something... you guys are acting like someone committed murder...

 

[shiftingmirage]

I mean God forbid you actually develop a personal relationship with your patients....actually talk with them, let them know you care....and if you share the same belief system

This made me think of my friends, and if I know their religious beliefs. Those that are deeply involved with church, I know. Most others, I have absolutely no clue. I could tell you their hobbies, where they grew up, went to school, studied, a little about their family. But not their religion. I don't think knowing someone's religious beliefs is a requirement to 'actually talk to patients, let them know you care'. I think compassion can be displayed in many ways other than let's pray.

I would also add, you do not develop a 'personal relationship' with your patients, you develop a professional one.

whats the big deal about praying with them?

That wasn't the question, in the beginning at least. The question was initiating.

a patient wants to feel above all else that their doctor is invested in their care and not just rushing through them to get to the next patient....

Again, there are many other ways this can be accomplished. Sitting with the patient. Tone of voice. Body Gestures. Introducing yourself to the family, and when appropriate, making a comment to include the family. Make sure the patient always knows you are open to questions. I'm sure others.

This post, to me at least, seems to say to know someone is to pray with them and vice versa. I don't believe that is the case usually.

 

[Sesom]

My duty to God INVOLVES my duty to be a good physician. For me, God comes before everything else including being a medical student/future physician.

Anyway, I agree that if you don't know what your patient's beliefs are then you should not ask them to pray with you. I think it's perfectly ok to tell them that you're praying for them in your own privacy just like you're praying for everyone else in your life. And you also want to make it clear that the fact that you're praying for them doesn't mean that they're in a terrible condition because some might automatically conclude that.

I think it's interesting how lot of people on this thread equate being a "good" physician with somebody who never prays or worse, is an atheist.

I agree with them to the extent that you should not force your beliefs on others, i.e. "along with your ace-inhibitor, i want to give you this passage from Luke". Especially if you know that your patient is an atheist or of different faith.

I do think that you should ask your patient about their spiritual health. If you are of the same faith, then of course extend that conversation further and let them know that you'll pray for them. I would go further and ask that if we can pray right there IF they are of the same faith as me. If they are NOT same faith as me, then I would let them know that I'll pray for them.

So in certain contexts, yes it is unprofessional to ask to pray with them. However, in situations where you and the patient are of same faith then it's perfectly ok to ask to pray with them.

As a patient, nothing would scare me more then a doctor telling me that they are praying for me.

 

[Rendar5]

When my step-mother was nearing death at Memorial Sloan-Kettering in NYC, her surgeon saw the Bible at her bedside. He noticed that one of the pages was marked off and he asked if he could see the prayer. This prayer was a particularly "Jesus-heavy" prayer and the surgeon, being Jewish said "yeah, I like Jesus and all, but let me show you my favorite." He flipped back to the Old Testament and found his favorite in Psalms. He asked my step-mom if he could pray with her. Then he took her hand and recited the verse that he found to be so powerful and healing.

That moment had a major impact on us all. More importantly, it touched something deep in my step-mother's soul. Call it what you may, but the healing that took place in that room that day went far beyond anything medicine had offered her in those few years of battling sarcoma. And that doc, went above and beyond his usual role as a surgeon (a top-notch surgeon at that).

I don't think there is a correct answer to the OP's question. One must become sensitive to his environment, learn how to read the situation, those around him, and act accordingly. That is something no one or no class can teach you.

Just be open to the experiences and lessons life will bring... and listen more than you speak. And trust your gut. You will know if the time is right with a quiet mind.

That said, I think this is an exception to the rule. that surgeon had profound insight and a ton of experience in patient care matters. The majority of people do not have the gift nor experience to tactfully do this in a way that would not end up insulting many of the wrong patients on the way to getting the one prayer initiation right.

If you are the kind of person who can intuit another's spiritual needs from conversation and observation, and have been working with the sick and dying for years, sure, go for it with the right person. But if you are the self-delusional med student or resident or youngattending (read: anyone on this board considering initiating prayer) who thinks they know what is best for the patient, please do not initiate, even if they're of the same faith; because faith is a personal thing, and there are many different degrees of it even within the same religion.

 

[Amalgamate]

Many doctors are scientific fact based people, I'm surprised they believe in something like religion that has no evidence or science backing it. It relies on faith because it doesn't exist

 

[Slack3r]

My duty to God INVOLVES my duty to be a good physician. For me, God comes before everything else including being a medical student/future physician.

Anyway, I agree that if you don't know what your patient's beliefs are then you should not ask them to pray with you. I think it's perfectly ok to tell them that you're praying for them in your own privacy just like you're praying for everyone else in your life. And you also want to make it clear that the fact that you're praying for them doesn't mean that they're in a terrible condition because some might automatically conclude that.

I think it's interesting how lot of people on this thread equate being a "good" physician with somebody who never prays or worse, is an atheist.

I agree with them to the extent that you should not force your beliefs on others, i.e. "along with your ace-inhibitor, i want to give you this passage from Luke". Especially if you know that your patient is an atheist or of different faith.

I do think that you should ask your patient about their spiritual health. If you are of the same faith, then of course extend that conversation further and let them know that you'll pray for them. I would go further and ask that if we can pray right there IF they are of the same faith as me. If they are NOT same faith as me, then I would let them know that I'll pray for them.

So in certain contexts, yes it is unprofessional to ask to pray with them. However, in situations where you and the patient are of same faith then it's perfectly ok to ask to pray with them.

Well since atheists have no morals, this should have been an easy decision, right?

Ziiing!

 

[normtheniner]

Maybe. Many hospitals were founded by nuns and still have the name of a Catholic saint in their title.


In general, it's not appropriate to initiate any such gesture. If the patient asks you, and you are comfortable with the practice, then it seems perfectly reasonable.

I completely agree with this statement. If I were in the hospital in critical condition and a doctor suggested we prayed, I would sort of believe that I was going to die and the doctor has no idea what to do to stop it.

I am a Christian, and I do pray often. However a doctor suggesting it would just seem odd...(assuming they aren't familiar with my religious beliefs)