Is it a dick move to cancel interview a week before?

[atethesun]

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My interview is next Friday in NYC.
However, something happened to one of my close relatives in Michigan and I have to take Monday off to go home (got the call from my aunt this afternoon and I am leaving right now)

Now I just got an email from the elective director saying that I can't take off more than 4 days and I have to either not go see my close relative or I have to cancel my interview.

Is it bad form to cancel the interview now?
I feel bad because I do want to check out the program and one of my good friends from college is a PGY3 there.
Is it reasonable to ask for a possible phone interview?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Wow, that sucks. Sorry your elective director is being unreasonable -- fourth years have to interview, and you think they'd cut you some slack for going to a funeral. If you've got to cancel, you've got to cancel, though. The program will be OK without you coming. The downside is that you're actually interested in the program and in going to the interview.

 

[splik]

Is there no way you can offer to make up the time at some other point (nights, weekends, or later on)? It is not poor form to cancel an interview a week before but it is a shame if you are interested in said program. You almost certainly wont be able to interview over the phone and it doesn't give you the chance to see whether you like it.

 

[atethesun]

Nope, I asked. The service is all outpatient and they don't have any nights =(

Ya, between not graduating and not going to interview at a program I'm interested in, I would choose the former. =(

 

[splik]

that blows - i hope it wasn't one of your top picks

 

[billypilgrim37]

Email the interview coordinator and/or program director. There are some programs that would make a special interview day for you. It's worth asking.

 

[mkeguy]

yea, id ask if they can interview you on a special day.

Email the interview coordinator and/or program director. There are some programs that would make a special interview day for you. It's worth asking.

 

[atethesun]

Definitely will try. Problem is that my elective won't be due til early Feb. I'm afraid that it might be too late for rank list.....


=(

 

[psychphan]

Its a dick move to just not show up. If you can't go cancelling a week before is much better than just not showing up the day of the interview.

On a side note, what kind of hell hole place are you at that is treating you that way. Don't they know its past the new year in fourth year and thus all rotations are optional?

 

[kugel]

Definitely will try. Problem is that my elective won't be due til early Feb. I'm afraid that it might be too late for rank list.....


=(

Let them know this, and tell them you'd be willing to fly out for a Sat or Sun interview if that is even a remote possibility. Show your willingness to "do whatever it takes," even if they don't take you up on the offer.

 

[nitemagi]

I'd also just tell the PD your situation. It's unfortunate, but happens.

No showing up is a dick move. Cancelling a week before with no reason is less so, but still a little. Always keep in mind all the PD's in a field know each other.

 

[billypilgrim37]

You should also identify one of the more sympathetic deans (maybe the one that wrote your dean's letter) and let them know that your rotation director is being a dick over a family funeral. Having a strict "miss no more than 4 days" policy is reasonable for planned events. When unforeseen things happen, and it threatens residency interviews (and landing a residency position is fundamentally the point of med school), that's not really appropriate. At least somebody higher up should know about it, whether they care or not.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

You should also identify one of the more sympathetic deans (maybe the one that wrote your dean's letter) and let them know that your rotation director is being a dick over a family funeral. Having a strict "miss no more than 4 days" policy is reasonable for planned events. When unforeseen things happen, and it threatens residency interviews (and landing a residency position is fundamentally the point of med school), that's not really appropriate. At least somebody higher up should know about it, whether they care or not.

Yeah, this can't hurt. The outcome probably depends on your medical school, though. At my medical school, this wouldn't come up, and taking extra time off would be OK. At the medical school affiliated with my residency, you'd probably be out of luck.

As for PDs talking, OPD posted something about this in another thread essentially sharing that you're not that important for them to sit around talking about you, which I think is true. We have a tendency to be a little paranoid in this field, and maybe this talk about PDs talking to each other is more reflective of that than of anything else. No one wants to waste their time talking to an uninterested applicant even if they cancel with little notice.

 

[nitemagi]

As for PDs talking, OPD posted something about this in another thread essentially sharing that you're not that important for them to sit around talking about you, which I think is true. We have a tendency to be a little paranoid in this field, and maybe this talk about PDs talking to each other is more reflective of that than of anything else. No one wants to waste their time talking to an uninterested applicant even if they cancel with little notice.

I would agree with this, to a degree. When people stand out in a bad way, everyone talks. Missing an interview isn't going to make you stand out that much, though.

 

[Saluki]

I had to cancel one interview about a week in advance.... My financial aid check still hadn't come in, and I didn't have enough money to buy the plane ticket... I actually liked the program, though I doubt it would have been in my top few. In retrospect, I should have called the program and explained the situation. Even if the program didn't offer me another interview date, it would have shown that I wasn't just cancelling on a whim.

If you're not terribly excited about the program, though, I would definitely cancel. I actually got offered an interview at a program I had been really excited about before the interview season 5 days in advance. And if I didn't have my step 2 coming up, I would have taken it despite the last minute notice. So you could be really helping out another unfortunate applicant on the waiting list.....

 

[digitlnoize]

I just had to cancel one with almost zero notice. I was in town for my interview and my car was broken into at the hotel overnight.

They basically took everything in the trunk. All of my clothes (I had packed for a 10 day trip) and my wife's and my daughter's clothes (they were planning to meet me for the last 4 days of my 10 day trip).

We lost a very nice camera, pretty much my entire wardrobe (except what was in the hotel), my wife's favorite boots, some jewelry (most of it cheap, but a couple pieces were not and were sentimental), my daughters charm bracelet she's had her entire life with charms from special events throughout her life, our luggage and a ton of other stuff.

I was at a nice (but not too nice) hotel, and I don't have a particularly nice car. Nothing was visible from the outside. No idea why they picked my 10 year old honda accord to break into. Maybe my out of state plates...

Anyways, long story short, between the loss of all my clothes (I didn't want to show up to the interview naked) the emotional distress and violation we all felt, and needing to take care of insurance stuff, I decided I needed to get home and be with my family and take care of things. So, I cancelled last minute. I hated doing it, and still hate doing it, but the program was very understanding, and did not mind in the slightest. We'll probably never get our stuff back, but I'm scouring Craigslist, eBay, and Backpage anyways.

I also felt like I couldn't rank that city highly anymore...I am now extremely biased against the city and will probably never, ever return there.

I guess the moral of the story is:

1. Get a Trunk Monkey.
2. Don't ever leave ANYTHING in your car.
3. If an emergency happens, you CAN cancel.

 

[peppy]

Sorry to hear that happened to you, digitlnoize. 🙁 As someone who has seen a little bit of what the prog coordinators go through preparing for applicant, I would definitely agree with the general principles that the more notice you can give the better (it's more work to organize these interviews than you might think), but if you explain that a last minute cancellation is because of emergency circumstances, people will understand. Just don't blow off the interview without telling them you're not coming. I think we all agree that's very rude and makes you look very bad.

 

[atethesun]

I just had to cancel one with almost zero notice. I was in town for my interview and my car was broken into at the hotel overnight.

They basically took everything in the trunk. All of my clothes (I had packed for a 10 day trip) and my wife's and my daughter's clothes (they were planning to meet me for the last 4 days of my 10 day trip).

We lost a very nice camera, pretty much my entire wardrobe (except what was in the hotel), my wife's favorite boots, some jewelry (most of it cheap, but a couple pieces were not and were sentimental), my daughters charm bracelet she's had her entire life with charms from special events throughout her life, our luggage and a ton of other stuff.

I was at a nice (but not too nice) hotel, and I don't have a particularly nice car. Nothing was visible from the outside. No idea why they picked my 10 year old honda accord to break into. Maybe my out of state plates...

Anyways, long story short, between the loss of all my clothes (I didn't want to show up to the interview naked) the emotional distress and violation we all felt, and needing to take care of insurance stuff, I decided I needed to get home and be with my family and take care of things. So, I cancelled last minute. I hated doing it, and still hate doing it, but the program was very understanding, and did not mind in the slightest. We'll probably never get our stuff back, but I'm scouring Craigslist, eBay, and Backpage anyways.

I also felt like I couldn't rank that city highly anymore...I am now extremely biased against the city and will probably never, ever return there.

I guess the moral of the story is:

1. Get a Trunk Monkey.
2. Don't ever leave ANYTHING in your car.
3. If an emergency happens, you CAN cancel.

That's like my worst nightmare. A couple years ago when I was traveling to Chicago, I had no idea where I was going and had to rely on GPS. I left it in the glove compartment when I decided to go for some late supper (12am) with my friend. When we came out, we noticed that my car was broken in and the GPS was stolen. Getting lost in a large unfamiliar city at 12am was not fun.


What's Trunk Monkey?

 

[digitlnoize]

That's like my worst nightmare. A couple years ago when I was traveling to Chicago, I had no idea where I was going and had to rely on GPS. I left it in the glove compartment when I decided to go for some late supper (12am) with my friend. When we came out, we noticed that my car was broken in and the GPS was stolen. Getting lost in a large unfamiliar city at 12am was not fun.


What's Trunk Monkey?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee3L9BQQ4Gs

There's a bunch of other vids too. Wish I had one 🙁

These thieves screwed with the wrong person though. If they ever decide to sell my camera, they are MINE. I've got the serial number, and with the help of the internet, I can scour for any pictures taken with my camera...which will happen eventually. I just have to wait.

 

[Saluki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee3L9BQQ4Gs

There's a bunch of other vids too. Wish I had one 🙁

These thieves screwed with the wrong person though. If they ever decide to sell my camera, they are MINE. I've got the serial number, and with the help of the internet, I can scour for any pictures taken with my camera...which will happen eventually. I just have to wait.

Can you google the serial number or how will you find the pictures the thief is posting on facebook?

 

[digitlnoize]

Can you google the serial number or how will you find the pictures the thief is posting on facebook?

http://www.stolencamerafinder.com/

The camera (and most cameras, I think) embed the serial number in the EXIF file that is saved as part of the supplemental data on every photo. I extracted it with a program that can read EXIF data (the EXIF data also includes tons of cool info about the settings used to take the picture, but that's photographer stuff, which I am NOT...yet). So, now I have the serial number.

I know, I should have had the serial number anyways, but Best Buy doesn't keep track of them when they sell a camera (*****s), so it's not on my receipt (which I DO have), and my wife threw away the box for the camera (sigh), and the warranty stuff was in the case with the camera since we hadn't gotten around to sending it in yet (yeah, I know, but I've been busy...sigh again). So, the only serial number we have was embedded in the two sets of pics we managed to take in the few weeks we had the camera.

Nikon verified that it IS a valid serial number, and that it WAS shipped to the Best Buy that I purchased the camera from...so we have a paper trail.

It's a nice camera. They will probably sell it to someone to make money. A pawn shop, craigslist, ebay...someone. Plus, anyone who winds up with that camera in the end will use it to take pictures...nice pictures that they'll want to share on flickr, Facebook, or somewhere...which can be search by the various stolen camera finder websites to find it.

I am also scouring ebay, craigslist, etc and can find a needle in a freaking haystack online. If this thing (or any of our other stuff) turns up ANYWHERE on the web, I promise you I will find it. Then we will trace it back to these thugs and they will pay. Bring it.

We may make a viral video starring our daughter alternately crying and "swearing" at the thieves to get the internet on our side, but we're a bit busy right now...might wait a couple weeks.

Finally: Thank you guys for the support. Honestly, the outpouring of support received from family and friends over this incident has almost been worth as much as the stuff we lost. Maybe there are more good people in the world than bad...

 

[whopper]

Now I just got an email from the elective director saying that I can't take off more than 4 days and I have to either not go see my close relative or I have to cancel my interview.

Does your medical school have a specific rule on bereavement leave? If they do and you can take off more than 4 days, tell the elective guy, diplomatically, to go screw himself, and you'll take your time off. If not, well then you're SOTL and got to deal with this.

I'd follow the above advice mentioned by others.

 

[cleareyedguy]

To play devil's advocate, you are asking for clinical credit for a 20 day elective but are asking to miss 5 days of the 20. That's quite a lot. An option would be to say you'll make up all the days during an upcoming vacation. You can look at it as, "hey, I'm a 4th year, so why are they expecting so much from me?" Or you can say, "hey, in <6 months, I'm going to be a physician, so I better get some practice at responsibility."

And yes, I consider it something of a bad move to cancel a week ahead of time and even worse to not show up. Things happen, and it's an unwise PD who makes a stink about it (if they did, they'd be seen as churlish, and their program's recruiting would suffer), but the reality is that your cancellation or no show has ripple effects. For one, a bunch of people have set aside time for you, and to simply not show up is rude. Second, it's very possible that a colleague and fellow SD reader will have not been granted an interview because you chose to accept that date.

In both cases, your cancellation and/or desire to miss 25% of an elective isn't just about over-sensitive souls, hurt feelings, and malignant supervisors but about taking personal responsibility for your actions, and professional standards are a hefty and at times onerous part of being a physician.

By the way, I don't think the original writer said anyone died; I think "something" happened, but we don't know what it was. And also by the way, one of the advantages of getting more responsibility (by being, say a doctor rather than a blue collar worker) is the power to choose whether to go to a family crisis or to cancel a job interview because of the trauma of getting stuff stolen. People will, in the future let you do it because they will assume you are generally hyper-responsible. At this point, however, you aren't necessarily hyper-responsible, and so I'd say that signs of irresponsibility should be addressed alongside the empathetic murmurs. By the way (my 3rd "by the way" of the paragraph, a new personal best), if you worked at a typical blue collar job and didn't make it to work because of a personal event, you'd likely get fired)..

 

[atethesun]

To play devil's advocate, you are asking for clinical credit for a 20 day elective but are asking to miss 5 days of the 20. That's quite a lot. An option would be to say you'll make up all the days during an upcoming vacation. You can look at it as, "hey, I'm a 4th year, so why are they expecting so much from me?" Or you can say, "hey, in <6 months, I'm going to be a physician, so I better get some practice at responsibility."

And yes, I consider it something of a bad move to cancel a week ahead of time and even worse to not show up. Things happen, and it's an unwise PD who makes a stink about it (if they did, they'd be seen as churlish, and their program's recruiting would suffer), but the reality is that your cancellation or no show has ripple effects. For one, a bunch of people have set aside time for you, and to simply not show up is rude. Second, it's very possible that a colleague and fellow SD reader will have not been granted an interview because you chose to accept that date.

In both cases, your cancellation and/or desire to miss 25% of an elective isn't just about over-sensitive souls, hurt feelings, and malignant supervisors but about taking personal responsibility for your actions, and professional standards are a hefty and at times onerous part of being a physician.

By the way, I don't think the original writer said anyone died; I think "something" happened, but we don't know what it was. And also by the way, one of the advantages of getting more responsibility (by being, say a doctor rather than a blue collar worker) is the power to choose whether to go to a family crisis or to cancel a job interview because of the trauma of getting stuff stolen. People will, in the future let you do it because they will assume you are generally hyper-responsible. At this point, however, you aren't necessarily hyper-responsible, and so I'd say that signs of irresponsibility should be addressed alongside the empathetic murmurs. By the way (my 3rd "by the way" of the paragraph, a new personal best), if you worked at a typical blue collar job and didn't make it to work because of a personal event, you'd likely get fired)..

PMed you.