Is it all worth it in the end??

[MzzMisty]

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Hi everyone.. I really hate to do this but I am going to ask for advice on something that I have been thinking about for quite some time now and just can't seem to make my mind up. I want to know if it was all worth it for everyone?? Are you unsatisfied? Would you have chose a different path?

I've known since I was younger that I wanted to be a "Doctor". Since I was just a kid and up until now the thought of becoming a doctor was a motivating force in my life. Recently I've been reading posts and wondering if it is all worth it.. let me explain a little bit... The way medicine is run now-a-days I'm not sure if that is right for me.. insurances telling a doctor how to treat patients and then to add on top of that rising malpractice insurance, along with loans and the amount of time that it will take to finally be "done" .. Of course one never stops learning.. Im just refering to the part where I can be more independent...
The fact that it would take 12 more years is a little intimidating.. (2 to transfer 2-3 at university 4 med school and then residency) 😱 Im 25 now and am worried about supporting myself through/after medical school. After medical school I will make at least a little something while working.. Im just not to up to date on how much you will get paid after medical school during residency etc... Currently I am working full time and going to school full time which I know isnt possible in Med school.. and that its also not possible after you graduate.. Well doesnt seem necessary either since you become a MD.

So I have recently stumbled upon PA information(which I must admit I was not well informed on before hand). Well this seems as though it is another option I can take.. it takes less time and pays pretty well and I still would be able to do most of the things that I want to do .. So I was hoping for some advice on this matter.. Any would be appreciated .. Im sorry this post was so long ... thank you very much .... Misty 😍

 

[hans19]

I am fortunate enough to have stumbled upon a field I truly enjoy, radiology.
I honestly can't think of anything else I'd rather be doing for a living. Of course radiology doesn't fit with most people's concept of what a 'doctor' is. But I am involved in an integral part of diagnosis. I can still have patient contact and help them as an interventional radiologist. My field happens to have much less of the BS of other fields. No rounding, no clinic, no social work-- just dictating and signing reports.

This isn't meant to be a plug for radiology. You will find many of the same sentiments in the Path, EM, Anesthesiology, and maybe even the surgery forums. The disgruntled people tend to speak up more than the happy ones. The key is finding out what you really love and doing it.

Nothing cherished in life comes easy. Yes, medicine is a long, arduous path.
So your 25? There are more and more people pursuing medicine in there late 30's and 40's as a second career. I had a classmate who was in his late 30's who was struggling to make ends meet as a firefighter, with a stay at home wife and 4 kids. One guy in my class was in his 70's, a retired attorney, who wanted to help people pro bono. Its never too late to go to med school. If you want it bad enough, you can do it. Take out loans if you have to.

As far as the PA route, you ought to try the PA forum and get their opinions. If you are discouraged from the med school path because of the loss of autonomy of doctors, you will likely have even less autonomy in patient care as a PA. Again, it depends on what you want to get out of your life.

Medicine is a demanding, yet still very rewarding profession. Medschool and residency (and the views of med students and residents) do not necessarily how things really are in real world private practice (not that bad).

Good luck!

 

[turtle md]

I did not even think of medicine as a career until I was your age (maybe even a little older 🙂 ). I was working full time, and continued this while putting myself through undergrad. In med school, I took out loans (big time 🙁 ). I will defer these loans through residency (most residents make between 37 and 46k per year, depending on location and level of training). But I should have no problem paying them back after I finish and am making 200k+. And I will be in my late 30's before that even happens 😀 .

I am totally excited about my chosen career plan. I am doing Emergency Medicine, and nothing would fit me better. Like the above poster, I found what fits. No rounding, no call, shift work with known work hours, possibility for travel with work, and possibility for working only part time, if I decide to do so.

The PA's I've met seen happy enough with what they have chosen. But again, they chose it for their own reasons. If you have always wanted to be a "doctor," I recommend reexamining your desires and if you still want to be one, then don't let the conerns you mentioned deter you from following those wants.

Best of luck in your decisions...

 

[MzzMisty]

Thanks for the advice ... I appreciate hearing it from people who have already gone through medical school and can look back and give an honest answer to the question..
Another reason I was also stressed about the decision to go or not is because when i was younger (18) I had gotten into some financial trouble and I am worried that I wont be able to get loans to go to medical school because of my credit score.. and then where would I be? Im not exactly sure what I would do then.... And I'm not sure how I would get the money to go...

I have looked at the PA forums and I really respect what they do but Im not sure if I would be comfortable not being the one in charge. I dont think I would be satisfied knowing that I haven't learned everything I possibly can and as well as using those skills to help who ever I can when I become a DR. I suppose the whole thing about looking at this as your LIFE and not just a career couldn't be more right.. 😀 If it is My LIFE then I will just be living it day to day forever.. And I don't think that would bother me.. Of course I would like some time outside of work for other things... but I suppose that will depend on my area.

With malpractice so high now 😱 .. Do Drs make enough to cover those expenses as well as school loans and everything else they might have to pay.. ??? I haven't really asked anyone if they make enough to survive and still pay everything.... I just want to know that I will be able to support myself and handle everything financially in a more responsible way then my past was..

I'm still not sure how I would pay for medical school though 😕 .. If they go by past credit history I suppose Im not going to be able to pay 🙁 .. lol... Oh noooo.. What to do... Then I would have to settle for something different .. Make a LOT of money and go back to school .. and pay in cash... But i dont think that is very realistic....

Well ok this has turned out to be such a long post.. any other comments would be welcomed and appreciated.... Thanks for the comments so far... Misty

 

[Elysium]

You might want to check out this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=195799

 

[Toofscum]

What about the delayed gratification part? That's what I'm agonizing over. I'm 28, have a JD already, am married, and have everything done except hitting the submit button on AMCAS. I'm just not sure if after a JD already I want to spend another 8 years down a path and delaying gratification more....starting med school at age 29, working like a dog as I don't have as strong a science background as probably most other entering med students...then the exhaustion and long, long hours of internship and residency. I'm just wondering is it worth it to put everything else aside and focus on one thing (medicine) for 8 long years? Is it worth it? I know from experience with my Dr. hubby that he has not read a book for fun in 4 years. I have been with him from the beginning of med school through residency. Is an MD really worth putting all else in your life aside for 8 years?

 

[hans19]

Is an MD really worth putting all else in your life aside for 8 years?

For me, its totally worth it! Put aside my life? Its not like I work for free as a resident. I have enough to live comfortably. In fact I have started paying back my higher interest loans. I am enjoying my life! I make of time to pursue my outside interests and travel. While in med school I developed close friendships, and have had incredible experiences that have made me a better person. This 9 years (4+5) of 'sacrifice' will pay bountiful dividends for the rest of my life.

I don't think that having to make personal sacrifices to pursue your career goals is unique to medicine. If you want to make partner at the law firm, or if you want to make VP at the investment bank, you will have to work hard and for many years before you achieve your goal.

Its definitely not easy, but its definitely not impossible either. Search the surgery forum for topics about balancing surgery and a family life.

Good luck.

 

[GoPistons]

if you ask me... totally not worth it...

if you are any older than 22 entering med school... definitely not worth it...

there are so many alternative things to do in life that will make you "successful" and have time for your kids and family, etc. medicine not being one of them... at least for a huge chunk of your life...

i just turned 25... just graduated and will be doing residency... i won't be making real cash till I'm 30-31... have over 100k in debt... pathetic...

medicine for real is too detailed... you have to stay sharp at all times... which means you just keep pounding the books till your head hurts... evenings, weekends, etc. I would prefer doing something in which I was 9-5 on the weekdays and had free time otherwise...

honestly, my monthly "fun" expenses are only like $200/mo... you give me cable TV, netflix, internet, sports and I am good to go... I don't know what I'm going to do with 250k/ yr anyways besides investing it????????

should have just become a consultant after undergrad...

 

[seethrew]

well, i have just been accepted to school and i am 29 now. i don't have the benefit of experience in advising you, but i will share anyhow...

i have similiar concerns, but a sort of peace in knowing that for better or for worse i have made my informed decision. i am not exactly sure what aspect of medicine i would like to practice. i worry sometimes: will i hate this? will i regret not pursuing art as a career? will i come out the other end tired and skeptical? still, regardless of my outcome, i think i must attempt not to regret anything in this short life. medical school seems like an awesome adventure to me - if not for the anticipated technical education, the sheer challenge of the experience i hope will serve as some redamndiculous material for personal growth. and if it sucks? if i want to do something else and have a lot of debt? well if i have the skillz to get in and out of med school, i can probably figure out the next appropriate adventure.

and btw... i know several pa's who are "in charge". they run clinics in areas that are underserved in relative autonomy. an extreme example are two pa's i know who practice in alaska - they fly to different tribal communities as the *only* health clinicians, and also run a clinic in a small city, no docs nearby. i met a pa in an interventional radiology dept. who worked "alone" on procedures all day, albiet not the most complicated ones - she *loved* her job, made tons of $$$, and had a little less responsibility which was fine wit her. i think pa's are rad. 😉

 

[GoPistons]

your views on the "greatness" or "challenge" of med school will quickly change when your nose is in books hours and hours and hours on end... I used to be all about the "honor" it was to be a physician and to be able to even go to medical school since so many people wanted to do it... what a bunch of crap... it is one of the most depressing and awful experiences in my short life... i would rather be in a POW camp for four years than do medical school again...

 

[Dire Straits]

seems like this type of thread is brought up every other week with the same advice each time. maybe we should just make it a sticky.

 

[Dire Straits]

... i would rather be in a POW camp for four years than do medical school again...

overstatment of the year?

 

[Furrball2]

if you ask me... totally not worth it...

if you are any older than 22 entering med school... definitely not worth it...

there are so many alternative things to do in life that will make you "successful" and have time for your kids and family, etc. medicine not being one of them... at least for a huge chunk of your life...

i just turned 25... just graduated and will be doing residency... i won't be making real cash till I'm 30-31... have over 100k in debt... pathetic...
.

I just graduated and I am 33. In my class there were several people around my age, one man who was 39 when we started and a woman who was 49 when she started. Our average age at matriculation was 25. 100K isn't even a morgage these days. A 100k investment on a career that will make 1-3x that much every years for at least twenty years, not too bad. Of course you have to like what you are doing....

 

[clc17]

As the wife of active duty military you really show your age and immaturity by that POW statement. Medical school as an equivalent? Please. It isn't even that hard. At least wait until your intern before you complain this much.

 

[yaah]

As the wife of active duty military you really show your age and immaturity by that POW statement. Medical school as an equivalent? Please. It isn't even that hard. At least wait until your intern before you complain this much.

Agreed - med school is challenging and a bit time consuming but it is still enjoyable. I didn't spend all of my time studying. Residency is fun for me. Then again I picked the best field. 😉

 

[kungfufishing]

I think if you are truly interested in medicine, med school isnt all that difficult. Everyone complains about how hard residency is, but it is a lot of fun, too, assuming you like the material (so choose a specialty you like). I would venture that you will work just about as hard at the entry level of any job with a comparable goal salary/level of responsibility (although you could argue that there are few jobs that really compare from a responsibility standpoint). Im just finishing my intern year and I would say it is definitely worth it. What other professional school or degree affords such a broad variety of career options and lifestyles after graduation - each of which offers some degree of mental stimulation/physical involvement and pays 6 figures? I get tired of hearing med students and docs complain about how bad their lives are. Digging ditches it aint.

 

[drvechman]

Just something to think about:

You are 22, have 12 more years to go and seem to be a woman. I know it is totally un pc, but if you want to have a family that is something you are definitely going to have to factor into the equation. Everyone wants to think that women can do it all - go through med school and residency during their child-bearing years, take maternity leave (while sticking their coworkers), work hard, have time for their family, stay current in their field and enjoy what they do. It is the BIGGEST SCAM perpetrated on the American public today. How could anyone be happy working 80 hours a week, popping out babies, keeping up household duties and getting in personal time with their spouse all at the same time. It DOESN'T work that way. This is why so many marriages fail in this day and age. Just a thought...

 

[MD'05]

Do not do it. Be happy. Be a PA. $120K for 40 hrs/week. 2 years of education. 'Nuff said.

 

[john182]

Hi everyone.. I really hate to do this but I am going to ask for advice on something that I have been thinking about for quite some time now and just can't seem to make my mind up. I want to know if it was all worth it for everyone?? Are you unsatisfied? Would you have chose a different path?

Although it can seem a long time, I look at it from the perspective that studying and practicing medicine is more of a journey than a destination. The focus on many jobs is getting the minimum training and then getting the job. Once the job is done, you go home, etc., .

Medicine is much more of a life long journey; you will always be learning and always adapting. An MBA might say, well I invest 100k and 2 years to get it, then my perceived returns financially are such and such. Same with many careers. Don't focus so much on 12 years time as being when you are "done" because no, you are still not "done", ever. You might be earning a lot more and have less exams or stepping stones, but part of that is to get you to change your life to a style of constant learning and progressing. This may be why many people go back to med school after a totally unrelated primary qualification. Any career in medicine is different from the others, the surgeon, the radiologist, psychiatrist, pathologist, whatever. They are all as fulfilling and suited to so many different personalities and backgrounds that there is something for everyone. What it requires is the dedication to jump on board and stick it in the early years. If you relax and look at it as continuous education and advancement, you'll feel more fulfilled than (IMHO) most other jobs, no matter the money. You will have become an integral part of society, not a drain on it like lawyers and MBAs!!!

That's the 12 years to be "done" sorted out, IMHO. There is no "done" !

Regarding the autonomy, it really is up to you. So much focus these days on all "industries" is on generic management skills from e.g., managers who are in insurance companies and so on. I think you'll see that leadership is one of the most important qualities in any doctor and it is woefully underregarded in medical training.

You will have all the autonomy you want and need should you desire it. Like most things in life, it must be earned. I suppose keeping doctors working 80hrs a week makes them too tired and beat down to take the leadership baton and that's what's happened as managed care has taken over. Medicine is yours, if you want it.

 

[Lonestar]

As a PGY1 finishing his intern year, all I can say is it has not been worth it so far. My opinion may change later on, but as I look at it so far its been brutal. Internship just sucks period. If the hours were not around 70-80 per week, then it would be worth it. Think of it this way. You are leveraging your youth for satisfaction/lifestyle in your later years. What makes medicine so horrible is the call. I have anesthesia residency to look forward to for the next 3 years. Hours will be little better at around 60-65 per week. I am just waiting to get out and pay back my $200K in student loans. After paying those off, I might be happier. Until then, I am trapped with nowhere to go. You know what they say: "misery loves company". Welcome aboard mates.

 

[PainDr]

The last people you should listen to are burned out students and interns. Med school is tough and internship is tougher, but then every single year gets a little better. I'm about to finish a 4 yr residency (graduate next week...yea!!!!!) and then on to a one year fellowship. It HAS been tough and I've probably got more debt than anyone here (>$250,000) 😱 However, in exactly one year, I get to spend the rest of my life doing something I love and making a ton of cash along the way! Also, don't forget about job security. I will never be out of a job. I'll always be in demand and be well paid for my services. Medicine was a second profession for me. I didn't start until my mid 30's, so I know what the real world is like. It's a jungle out there! The people who don't understand and appreciate that are the ones who've never experienced it. However, it's certainly not for everyone. The demands on your time are great...the personal and professional responsibility can be daunting. If you don't go into it for the right reasons, you'll be miserable. On the other hand, if you know yourself and do it for the right reasons, it's the best profession in the world! 😀

 

[Dire Straits]

The last people you should listen to are burned out students and interns.

common sense also says you shouldn't listen to people who are now coasting after getting through the hard parts (i.e. you should take with a grain of salt when a 4th year med student says medical school isn't so bad, or when a resident who is winding down says it wasn't so bad). that being said, the advice given on the two dozen or so other threads about this same topic have become redundant and we're left beating the proverbial dead horse. i think most people are not looking for "advice" as much as they are looking for reassurance from others of what they already think of med school and medicine as a career (i.e. they already know they don't like it or it wasn't what they thought it would be and now just want to make sure others feel the same way so they can feel better about it).

 

[Philo Beddo]

The last people you should listen to are burned out students and interns. Med school is tough and internship is tougher, but then every single year gets a little better. I'm about to finish a 4 yr residency (graduate next week...yea!!!!!) and then on to a one year fellowship. It HAS been tough and I've probably got more debt than anyone here (>$250,000) 😱 However, in exactly one year, I get to spend the rest of my life doing something I love and making a ton of cash along the way!

You must be an anesthesiologist. If so, the tribulations of being an aneshtesia resident are laughable compared to surgery, or medicine. Your salary will be phenomenal. You'll be able to pay off your loan in 2 years. Noone deserves that much money for that little work. God bless procedures.

You chose wisely.

Many choose poorly and wind up miserable. The way general practicians are reimbursed and the way they are being forced to practice is shameful. Seeing a patient every 15 minutes only pisses the patient and the doc off. The amount of paper work is ludicrous. The overhead is rediculous. A private practice MD may have to hire 1.5 emplyees for the sole purpose of collecting bills.

Philo

hippocritis.com <---medical satire for residents and medical students

 

[GoPistons]

As the wife of active duty military you really show your age and immaturity by that POW statement. Medical school as an equivalent? Please. It isn't even that hard. At least wait until your intern before you complain this much.

Ha ha it was a joke... lighten up...

 

[PainDr]

To Dire Straits,

I think the original question was "Is it all worth it?". When you're a med student or intern it's difficult to answer such a question since you don't yet have the same perspective as someone finishing residency. EVERYONE, including myself has asked themselves this question and EVERYONE, including myself has sometimes felt like perhaps it ISN'T worth it. That being said, very few people feel that way (at least all the ones I know) after finishing residency. If you choose a specialty you love...or at least really like, you'll always enjoy your clinical work, you'll always have job security and you'll always be in the top percentile of wage earners (the VAST majority of docs, even FPs, may at least $100,000+). I think it's a trade off...work your arse off for 8-9 years then coast (relatively speaking) for the rest of your life. Few professions offer so much. After spending years in the real world (including 6 years as a stockbroker), I really appreciate the stability of medicine.


To Philo,

Actually, I'm a neurologist. I'll be doing an interventional pain fellowship. I'll be the first to admit that neurology isn't as physically demanding as surgery, but, at least at my program, we certainly worked as hard as the medicine residents. I did plenty of 80+ hr weeks and 36+ hr shifts (home call gets you out of the 24 hour rule). I certainly had my share of tribulations!

I was quite fortunate in that I found my niche early on. I had an interest in pain before choosing my residency...actually even before starting med school. In the beginning, I honestly didn't know about the money and do feel like I totally lucked out. I considered anesthesiology and PM&R but couldn't imagine going into either field. I chose neurology because I really enjoyed the work. You're right that many choose poorly and I really feel sorry for them. I couldn't imaging doing something I hated or being abused by the system like the people in primary care.

 

[MzzMisty]

Thank you everyone for posting your comments on the issue, either good or bad.. Since I was younger I have wanted to go into the field of medicine and become a physician.. Recently I was having second thoughts and I'm not sure exactly why.. I suppose I'm just getting older and I'm worried about being able to support myself while I am going to med school and beyond..Im not planning on children anytime soon so that won't be an issue. In a way .. a quick "fix" would have been for me to become something else.. like a PA or NP or Nurse.. I really do love those professions they are all fabulous people my mom happens to be one of them 😀 .. But I know that deep down in my gut that I want to or maybe that Im supposed to become a physician.. it sounds kinda corny when i say that 🙄 .. but I really feel like this is my calling in life.. I suppose getting nervous is natural (kind of like before one gets married or something like that) I know that this profession is a trying one as far as how many years one is in school and the hours one works and well the amount owed to whomever after school... 😱 But I feel that all of that will be trivial because I want this more that I have ever wanted anything in my life.. Sacrafices and hard work are part of everyday life not just this career... In life there will always be things sacraficed and of course hard work.. and well I am not afraid of that.. Perhaps that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow will be a smile on someones face that hasnt smiled in months because of their illness.. maybe the reward of knowing that I have helped someone get better just because of the medicine I was allowed to practice and as well as the compassion I have learned 😍 .. Its all a journey anyhow... and well I know that I would like to go through my journey this way even if it takes me forever.. One step at a time I suppose . .Don't want to jump ahead of myself.. Well thanks for the comments.. once again..... Misty 🙂

 

[sevoflurane]

As a PGY1 finishing his intern year, all I can say is it has not been worth it so far. My opinion may change later on, but as I look at it so far its been brutal. Internship just sucks period. If the hours were not around 70-80 per week, then it would be worth it. Think of it this way. You are leveraging your youth for satisfaction/lifestyle in your later years. What makes medicine so horrible is the call. I have anesthesia residency to look forward to for the next 3 years. Hours will be little better at around 60-65 per week. I am just waiting to get out and pay back my $200K in student loans. After paying those off, I might be happier. Until then, I am trapped with nowhere to go. You know what they say: "misery loves company". Welcome aboard mates.

I feel ya! I start my intern year in a couple of weeks.... and I also am a little freaked out about $200K gaining interest day by day. But... in the end, having accomplished intern year + residency, and then finding myself fighting off PA pressure's in the high '90s as the patient gets off bypass is everything I've ever wanted to do. Debts will be gone after a couple of years, and I'll have the rest of my life to think about the rewards (mental, financial, etc...) I don't know If I would be happy doing it any other way. I've made it this far, and technically I'm 2/3 done if you include undergrad. I may change my mind after my first couple of 80-90 hour work weeks... but I doubt it. I hope your next 3 years are absolutely awsome. 👍

 

[Lonestar]

I feel ya! I start my intern year in a couple of weeks.... and I also am a little freaked out about $200K gaining interest day by day. But... in the end, having accomplished intern year + residency, and then finding myself fighting off PA pressure's in the high '90s as the patient gets off bypass is everything I've ever wanted to do. Debts will be gone after a couple of years, and I'll have the rest of my life to think about the rewards (mental, financial, etc...) I don't know If I would be happy doing it any other way. I've made it this far, and technically I'm 2/3 done if you include undergrad. I may change my mind after my first couple of 80-90 hour work weeks... but I doubt it. I hope your next 3 years are absolutely awsome. 👍

Well, most of the people i know in private practice have been very happy with their careers. That is something that I cannot deny about my field. I am hoping that my intern year is the low point of my career. i am looking forward to the rest of my life which incidentally will start off by studying for ABA in-service training exam. Just took step 3 and passed it. I feel drained. Taking test after test has gotten the best of me. Maybe i will feel little better when i actually start my anesthesia training. 2 more weeks to go.

 

[PainDr]

NOTHING is as bad as internship...definately the most difficult year of my life! By the end, I was physically, emotionally and intellectually exhausted. I felt jaded and resentful. But then residency started and MOST of the bad memories faded away! If you've just finished internship, you should congratulate yourself...you've made it over the worst bump. If you're about to enter it, just brace yourself and know that you WILL get through it. If you're really lucky you may even escape with your sanity!

 

[Sanman]

Though I'm not a doctor, I know many on a personal level and thought I'd add my two cents. I've been reading a lot of these threads lately, with a multitude of opinions on the issue. The truth is that it is different for everyone. Life is full of choices, the problem becomes when you make the wrong one at a key juncture. For example, take the issue of two imaginary students at the same med school. One lands a cush rads residency and then a 250k job. The other ends up at a prestigious, but malignant IM program and then a 130k job. Ask these two people if the process was worth it and you will get very different opinions.
PainDR was fortunate and is happy. Out of curiousity, PainDr, would you feel the pocess was worth it if you didn't match into a pain fellowship?

Personally, I have talked to many doctors. AMong them one with a successful private clinic and another who had a bad experience working for an HMO. This led to two very different opinions of medicine.Everyone's circumstance is different.
My suggestion is that you be realistic when assessing career goals. Don't be the person coming into med school with the impression of a private practice in derm in mind, even if you are a gunner.

 

[PainDr]

Your example doesn't really make sense. Just because someone goes into radiology doesn't automatically mean they'll be happy, just as internists are not automatically relegated to a life of misery. You seem to imply that it's all about money and lifestyle. What about the work itself? I'd rather dig ditches than read films all day. Some people are lucky enough to find their passion. For others it's about finding a specialty they can live with and maybe even enjoy. Some people end up miserable because they didn't really know themselves or were naive and either chose the wrong specialty or wrong practice situation. Or, they may simply have gone into medicine for the wrong reasons.

And yes, I would have felt the process was worth it even if I hadn't gotten a great fellowship. As I said, I chose neurology because I loved the field. I knew it would be more difficult to land an interventional fellowship, but just couldn't force myself to take the "easy way out" and go into anesthesiology or PM&R (not easier in general, just easier to subspecialize in pain).

Am I happy? Yes! Am I fortunate? Well, I took the time and effort to really examine my motivations for choosing medicine. I took the time and effort to investigate various specialties and evaluate my interest and aptitude in each one. I knew it would be one of the most important decisions of my life, so I treated it with the consideration it deserved. Hmmm...am I fortunate or just smart? 🙄

 

[Sanman]

You misinterpreted my point. The second person could have a great IM job and the other a crappys rads job. The point I was making was that happiness in choosing a career depends on the outcome of the career. You cannot predict whether you will be able to specialize in the field you like and live the life you would like. The more concessions made to accommodate such a a life in medicine, perhaps the less content the peron. I meant that you were fontunate to attain the goal you had of working pain medicine and gaining entrance into very difficul fellowship. The person who went to medical school dreaming of being a derm,reads, cards, etc. guy but couldn't make it is bound to be less content. So is the person who has to live in a region s/he does not want to get the job they want or has to take a crappy job due to location. The point of my post was that there are so many personal differences beween peoples' careers that you can't justify a single person's answer as a reason to go into or not go into a fiels. There is no wasy to tell for sure. Many others perhaps realized that there are things about medicine that they do not like after long term exposure (perhaps a bad malpractice suit). You can't predict such things. Using you suggestion, there is no garuantee that another person will find their passion because you found yours. Perhaps you are willing to live with certain career related problems that others are not. Take the example of the two doctors I knew previously. One has a successful private clinic and teh other had employment problems. These things cannot be foreseen. Essentially the point is that the outcome dictates whether the process is worth the trouble, but one does not know what their individual outcome will be and knowing others' outcomes has no bearing on their future happiness.

 

[primadonna22274]

Good Lord, if I could make $120k (or even $80) working 40 hr/wk I might stay a PA. It does NOT work this way for any of the PAs I know.
The PAs I know who make in the $100k ballpark are either derm specialists or ortho/CV surgical PAs. All others are much, much more humbly paid; some work more than 40 hr weeks, some work less, but none are paid like that!
I have to work a second job on my day off to pay my $100k student loans--to be a PA. The only thing that's kept me from going to med school sooner was wondering how on earth I could possibly afford to quit working so much and live on very little for the next several years. Still trying to work that one out.
Truth be told, if I could make even my usual salary (75k) working 3 days a week and have the other 4 to do what I like I could be very content as a PA, but the trouble is when I work like a doc and don't get paid like one, I start to think about becoming a doc. Dunno.
LIsa

Do not do it. Be happy. Be a PA. $120K for 40 hrs/week. 2 years of education. 'Nuff said.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

Your example doesn't really make sense. Just because someone goes into radiology doesn't automatically mean they'll be happy, just as internists are not automatically relegated to a life of misery. You seem to imply that it's all about money and lifestyle. What about the work itself? I'd rather dig ditches than read films all day. Some people are lucky enough to find their passion. For others it's about finding a specialty they can live with and maybe even enjoy. Some people end up miserable because they didn't really know themselves or were naive and either chose the wrong specialty or wrong practice situation. Or, they may simply have gone into medicine for the wrong reasons.

And yes, I would have felt the process was worth it even if I hadn't gotten a great fellowship. As I said, I chose neurology because I loved the field. I knew it would be more difficult to land an interventional fellowship, but just couldn't force myself to take the "easy way out" and go into anesthesiology or PM&R (not easier in general, just easier to subspecialize in pain).

Am I happy? Yes! Am I fortunate? Well, I took the time and effort to really examine my motivations for choosing medicine. I took the time and effort to investigate various specialties and evaluate my interest and aptitude in each one. I knew it would be one of the most important decisions of my life, so I treated it with the consideration it deserved. Hmmm...am I fortunate or just smart? 🙄

Completely agree here. Being in a pain fellowship would probably lead me to suicide within 2 years (after all, isn't there a reason its called a "pain" fellowship). But I love rads.

Its all about finding your own place in medicine. Some do, some don't. The ones that don't will more than likely be unhappy (radiologists that miss taking care of patients, internists who realize they don't like dealing with patients, etc).

 

[DrKnowItAll]

Many end up in medicine because they fail in other professions. If you think you will be suicidal doing anything else but medicine then go for it. Otherwise, look around and see the multitude of opportunities that exist in our great country.

Remember that it is practically impossible to have a balanced lifestyle in most specialties, particularly IM and surgery. I am an IM resident. I look at my attendings everyday and can't help but to feel sorry for them. Except for the ones that are involved in high profile research projects, most are overworked, stressed out, and unhappy. That's not where I want to be in 5 years. Clinicians are very bad role models once you're in the trenches with them.

The happiest doctors I've seen are either in non-clinical specialties like radiology and path or limitted-patient-contact specialties like optho and Derm. The rest are pretty miserable. Even ER docs get weary after a few years. The other day, one of the ER attendings with almost 20 years of experience was complaining that he and most of his colleagues are tired of doing shift work. Many of them take ambien at bedtime and provigil before going to work. He was telling me that you can't make a career out of being an ER physician. He was asking me if he could do an IM subspecialty with his ER training. I feel really bad for the guy. He looks and acts like a robot at work.

 

[Elysium]

Good Lord, if I could make $120k (or even $80) working 40 hr/wk I might stay a PA. It does NOT work this way for any of the PAs I know.
The PAs I know who make in the $100k ballpark are either derm specialists or ortho/CV surgical PAs. All others are much, much more humbly paid; some work more than 40 hr weeks, some work less, but none are paid like that!
I have to work a second job on my day off to pay my $100k student loans--to be a PA. The only thing that's kept me from going to med school sooner was wondering how on earth I could possibly afford to quit working so much and live on very little for the next several years. Still trying to work that one out.
Truth be told, if I could make even my usual salary (75k) working 3 days a week and have the other 4 to do what I like I could be very content as a PA, but the trouble is when I work like a doc and don't get paid like one, I start to think about becoming a doc. Dunno.
LIsa

I think you're getting jipped at your PA gig. First, I can't believe your PA education cost that much! That's really the high end of PA schools (did you go to OHSU? My SO is a 4th year MD student and I know their PA school is around $75,000) tuition. PA school in TX costs arounde $13,000 for the entire program. Also, most PAs I know are getting paid $60- $80/hour. My best friend works in the ER in TX and makes around $95,000 with benefits working a 40 hour week. I think you need to find a new job!

 

[WilcoWorld]

I think this thread has proved itself to be worthless.

I know that the west-coasters on this forum love In 'n Out Burger, but has anyone else here tried Culver's? It's a midwest chain & it's soooooo good.

 

[MD'05]

I think this thread has proved itself to be worthless.

I know that the west-coasters on this forum love In 'n Out Burger, but has anyone else here tried Culver's? It's a midwest chain & it's soooooo good.

Your point being?

 

[WilcoWorld]

My point being two-fold:

1) This is a decision that is so personal that advice from others is of little to no value. That those most vocal on this topic tend to come from one extreme or the other only further reduces the worth of their words, for extremist views are rarely generally applicable. Now, with the contributions of Dr. KnowItAll and Sanman this discussion has devolved to advice from people who know people who may or may not have anything in common with you. So, I think this thread has become pretty much worthless.

2) Culver's makes great burgers, and their custard aint bad neither.