Is it bad to just "pass" your 3rd year clerkships?

[IJL]

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I'll be going for a more competitive specialty, have good step 1 (>260), about 50th percentile in preclinical grades, but I really just don't see myself honoring any of the 3rd year rotations.

I'm a good student, act interested, try to learn, etc. I am just more quiet than a lot of the other students that I am with and I can't foresee myself getting honors on really anything. How bad is this?

 

[ijn]

What rotation are you on right now? Every rotation is going to have different personality types and it really all depends on the attending you get. I'm pretty introverted myself. I've had to try to force myself to talk a lot more than I'm used to, but when I get attendings that love to pimp me on knowledge I get my chance to shine and good evals because of that.

 

[username456789]

I'll be going for a more competitive specialty, have good step 1 (>260), about 50th percentile in preclinical grades, but I really just don't see myself honoring any of the 3rd year rotations.

I'm a good student, act interesting, try to learn, etc. I am just more quiet than a lot of the other students that I am with and I can't foresee myself getting honors on really anything. How bad is this?

How are your rotations graded? Simply H/P/F? Or are we talking H/HP/P/F? And what's the distribution of grades in each category? Do 40% of people get honors like at some schools? Or is it more like 5-10%?

 

[IJL]

How are your rotations graded? Simply H/P/F? Or are we talking H/HP/P/F? And what's the distribution of grades in each category? Do 40% of people get honors like at some schools? Or is it more like 5-10%?

H/P/F..... from what I hear it is around 10%, but I could be wrong

 

[ar2388]

it would be really bad if the grading system were H/HP/P/F but i think with H/P/F with only 10% getting honors is a different story. That fact should i think be mentioned somewhere in either the deans letter or the school transcript.

 

[OveractiveBrain]

I'll be going for a more competitive specialty, have good step 1 (>260), about 50th percentile in preclinical grades, but I really just don't see myself honoring any of the 3rd year rotations.

I'm a good student, act interested, try to learn, etc. I am just more quiet than a lot of the other students that I am with and I can't foresee myself getting honors on really anything. How bad is this?

Imagine you are a program director, or an assistant program director. Your job is to look at 500 applications for 30 positions. You aren't going to scrutinize every application, after all, you'll probably interview 300 people.

What looks better? A transcript full of H's or a transcript full of Ps? Thoughts going through the director's head:
1. "Why did this guy get all Ps? Whats wrong with him?"
2. "PASS!? Wait, is this school all pass fail? Acutally, having to check isnt worth my time, look at all these Hs on the next guy's app!"
3. "AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH next!"

P = MD, that is true. P != Residency. Most basic science programs are pass fail now. The way you separate yourself as "excellent student, learned alot, and plays well with others" is with third year grades. Is it true? Does an honors mean that? Probably not (look at all the disgruntled grades threads in this forum). But if you DONT have honors (or high pass), you almost certainly DO NOT have what it takes to study hard and play well with others. Thats the assumption, anyway. Why would someone take the risk on someone who is in the bottom of his class with a bunch of Passes?

Bottom line, third year grades separate excellent applicants from the rest. Get all those Hs on your transcript and go to the program of your choice (presuming you also have the Step score, since, well, no one will look at your application if you dont have a step score cutoff).

 

[Bane]

Imagine you are a program director, or an assistant program director. Your job is to look at 500 applications for 30 positions. You aren't going to scrutinize every application, after all, you'll probably interview 300 people.

What looks better? A transcript full of H's or a transcript full of Ps? Thoughts going through the director's head:
1. "Why did this guy get all Ps? Whats wrong with him?"
2. "PASS!? Wait, is this school all pass fail? Acutally, having to check isnt worth my time, look at all these Hs on the next guy's app!"
3. "AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH next!"

P = MD, that is true. P != Residency. Most basic science programs are pass fail now. The way you separate yourself as "excellent student, learned alot, and plays well with others" is with third year grades. Is it true? Does an honors mean that? Probably not (look at all the disgruntled grades threads in this forum). But if you DONT have honors (or high pass), you almost certainly DO NOT have what it takes to study hard and play well with others. Thats the assumption, anyway. Why would someone take the risk on someone who is in the bottom of his class with a bunch of Passes?

Bottom line, third year grades separate excellent applicants from the rest. Get all those Hs on your transcript and go to the program of your choice (presuming you also have the Step score, since, well, no one will look at your application if you dont have a step score cutoff).

I wonder if this assessment is a good one. If 70-90% of the students don't get H's, then a large majority (70%+) of doctors do not have what it takes to study hard and play well with others?

I guess that's why the medical field is screwed up. More than half of physicians DO NOT have what it takes to study hard and play well with others.

 

[Mass Effect]

But if you DONT have honors (or high pass), you almost certainly DO NOT have what it takes to study hard and play well with others

He said 10% of his class gets honors and there is no high pass. Chances are, a decent portion of the class won't have honors in any rotation.

 

[KnuxNole]

That would be scary...only 10% of people matching =O

 

[red10]

My school just has Fail/Pass/Honors. Less than 10% get honors. I have a hard time believing that not getting honors in every means you dont play well with others. Clearly you wanna do your best to get honors in the field you're going in to, but I dont think your life is over if you dont get H in everything

 

[OveractiveBrain]

My school just has Fail/Pass/Honors. Less than 10% get honors. I have a hard time believing that not getting honors in every means you dont play well with others. Clearly you wanna do your best to get honors in the field you're going in to, but I dont think your life is over if you dont get H in everything

Its amazing that everyone missed the meaning of my post. Perhaps I'll make it more explicit.

It isn't whether or not having the honors ACTUALLY assesses your ability to study hard and play well with others, it is the PERCEPTION of the person looking at your application.


If the program director reading your application sees a bunch of Ps, he isn't going to take the time to stop, look up your school, and figure out whether or not your school as 10% honors, 20% honors, 50% hp, or any other such nonsense. Imagine reading through 500 applications. One says "a bunch of passes." The knee jerk reaction is to dismiss that application and move on to the next one.

Its a shitty system you've got. 10% get honors, every one else gets mediocre. Sort of unfortunate. To answer your original question (to which my response is the same) it does look bad to have all passes, regardless what your system is designed to produce.

 

[KnuxNole]

But then what happens to the >70% of med students that have all passes in terms of applying for residency?

I guess I should be thanking the stars I have some honors...or else i'll be scrambling for a escort job 😱

 

[DrSnips]

But then what happens to the >70% of med students that have all passes in terms of applying for residency?

I guess I should be thanking the stars I have some honors...or else i'll be scrambling for a escort job 😱

Those with all passes will match somewhere, but PDs reported in a large survey that they considered clerkship grades to be very important in making their decisions, especially your grade within the relevant core clerkship to the specialty you are applying. That said, it is just one factor. If you have a great step 1 and 2, great LORs, great PS, some awesome research, etc, I doubt having only passes would prevent a top residency from taking you. But you still wouldn't look as good to them as someone who had all of that plus all honors.

 

[ArcGurren]

I'll be going for a more competitive specialty, have good step 1 (>260), about 50th percentile in preclinical grades, but I really just don't see myself honoring any of the 3rd year rotations.

I'm a good student, act interested, try to learn, etc. I am just more quiet than a lot of the other students that I am with and I can't foresee myself getting honors on really anything. How bad is this?

What specialty?

 

[Mass Effect]

Its amazing that everyone missed the meaning of my post. Perhaps I'll make it more explicit.

It isn't whether or not having the honors ACTUALLY assesses your ability to study hard and play well with others, it is the PERCEPTION of the person looking at your application.


If the program director reading your application sees a bunch of Ps, he isn't going to take the time to stop, look up your school, and figure out whether or not your school as 10% honors, 20% honors, 50% hp, or any other such nonsense. Imagine reading through 500 applications. One says "a bunch of passes." The knee jerk reaction is to dismiss that application and move on to the next one.

Its a shitty system you've got. 10% get honors, every one else gets mediocre. Sort of unfortunate. To answer your original question (to which my response is the same) it does look bad to have all passes, regardless what your system is designed to produce.

No, we understood what you were saying. We just disagreed with you. It's possible to do both at the same time 🙂

 

[Mass Effect]

Those with all passes will match somewhere, but PDs reported in a large survey that they considered clerkship grades to be very important in making their decisions, especially your grade within the relevant core clerkship to the specialty you are applying.

Then I'm screwed since the specialty I'm shooting for isn't a core clerkship and my school doesn't allow for honors in elective clerkships.

 

[KnuxNole]

Those with all passes will match somewhere, but PDs reported in a large survey that they considered clerkship grades to be very important in making their decisions, especially your grade within the relevant core clerkship to the specialty you are applying. That said, it is just one factor. If you have a great step 1 and 2, great LORs, great PS, some awesome research, etc, I doubt having only passes would prevent a top residency from taking you. But you still wouldn't look as good to them as someone who had all of that plus all honors.

That's interesting, but I guess PDs find some use in that. If getting all honors is essential, I feel like I would see more classmates going crazy trying to get it. Which is lame because that would create a super competitive environment, which is smelly just thinking about that.

 

[ArcGurren]

I'm fairly sure this is specialty specific... Generally speaking IM, gen surg, and peds like having the requisite honors in their specialty but not across the board (and it certainly won't necessarily prevent an interview if it isn't there)

 

[Frank Nutter]

But then what happens to the >70% of med students that have all passes in terms of applying for residency?

I guess I should be thanking the stars I have some honors...or else i'll be scrambling for a escort job 😱

Just because 70% get a pass for each unit/clerkship doesn't mean 70% get a pass on ALL units/clerkships. By the time 25 or so grades are recorded I'd guess only the bottom 5-10% are still looking for their very first high pass or honors. That does stand out and does seem like a red flag if the person managed a 260+ Step.

But I understand where OP is coming from... brown nosing and fixation on grades isn't my thing either. Guess you just have to play the game.

 

[red10]

At least at my school, in the Deans letter, next to all your reviews/clerkship comments it tells the directors what percentage get Honors so they don't have to look it up. It's right in front of them.

Not everyone, not even most people are gonna be best of the best, sir...with honors. And yet somehow people still match.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Rather than "pass"="bad," I think it's more accurate to say "honors"="good."

I think this is pretty much the same as any other feather in your cap. Not having research isn't "bad," but having it is nice. Having an average step score isn't bad, but an above average one is good. Not having leadership isn't bad, but having it is good. Etc, etc. Obviously you want something on your app to stand out--and if your desired specialty is a core clerkship, I'd work a little harder to try and get an honors for that one--but just like that B+ in O-Chem didn't keep you out of med school, you're hardly going to be scrambling because of a couple of passes.