Is it crazy to drop out and apply to another Ph.D Clinical Program?

[DrMindful]

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Hello all- I have found myself in an odd predicament. My experience as a first year clinical student has been less than favorable. I am now considering applying to other schools. The details are not important but nevertheless, the training and research was not what I had expected.

My question is-has anyone else has had a similar experience (or know of someone who has) in their first year and then applied to another university. If so, how exactly did this work? Was it worth it?

Thanks!

 

[berlin81]

My input might not be helpful to your post, but I did a similar thing in the past when I dropped out of a master's program. I spent one year in a MA program in counseling psychology, and freely choose to leave after being unsatisfied with the program. The program was at a Big 10 school who had a good reputation, so when I left a lot of people (including my own family) thought I was nuts.

After taking time off I went to another program that was smaller and less well known. However the program emphasized a lot of clinical aspects and, in my opinion, made me work hard.

I do think there is a stigma when one leaves a post-undergrad program because they are not satisfied, especially if the program in question has a world-renowned reputation simply because of its name. However, I believe that such fields as mental health and medicine have so many concentrations and if you are not doing what you love, there are options as long as you look around and clearly explain your reasons for leaving a program on your own accord.

 

[Phipps]

Hello all- I have found myself in an odd predicament. My experience as a first year clinical student has been less than favorable. I am now considering applying to other schools. The details are not important but nevertheless, the training and research was not what I had expected.

My question is-has anyone else has had a similar experience (or know of someone who has) in their first year and then applied to another university. If so, how exactly did this work? Was it worth it?

Thanks!

I don't think it is crazy. Like in a marriage, if the foundation is not there or you feel that the school is not a good fit...sometimes it takes some experience/time to find that out...then, well, yes, it could be the appropriate thing to do. It may be painful to let go of an opportunity like being in such a program but on the other hand, if you 'suffer' there emotionally or psychologically, self-care should be more important. Could be a good learning experiment too and you may grow through it and end up in a place where you feel you belong. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Just a tough decision to make. Hope you have some people you can talk this through. What's the reason you would want to leave?? Just be clear about 😉

g'luck in your process,

Ms. Phipps

 

[Phipps]

My input might not be helpful to your post, but I did a similar thing in the past when I dropped out of a master's program. I spent one year in a MA program in counseling psychology, and freely choose to leave after being unsatisfied with the program. The program was at a Big 10 school who had a good reputation, so when I left a lot of people (including my own family) thought I was nuts.

After taking time off I went to another program that was smaller and less well known. However the program emphasized a lot of clinical aspects and, in my opinion, made me work hard.

I do think there is a stigma when one leaves a post-undergrad program because they are not satisfied, especially if the program in question has a world-renowned reputation simply because of its name. However, I believe that such fields as mental health and medicine have so many concentrations and if you are not doing what you love, there are options as long as you look around and clearly explain your reasons for leaving a program on your own accord.

...and also, leaving a program could be a strength of character and a sign of being honest with yourself. It certainly is harder to leave, initially harder, than to stay -but may pay off in the long run. You have to stay true to yourself. If you stay and don't feel quite satisfied, chances are that you continue on with that 'pattern' and find yourself in places where you don't really feel happy.

 

[ADDICTED2STATS]

I know two people who did this. However, they both re-applied during their first semester of their first year. Both are far happier now. They were upset with the training they were (or weren't) receiving and approached our DCT about it. The DCT was very understanding and even wrote them both letters of rec for their new applications. I agree that it isn't worth sticking out a program for 4-5 years if you aren't happy. That said, make sure it's the program you're leaving. The first year of grad school in nearly any program is the worst, and it sounds like you've made it through that. Perhaps next year will be better. None-the-less, you can't apply until the next round anyway, sticking out another year, while applying to new schools, and at least completing a Masters (assuming you can do that in your current program) may not be such a bad option. You could apply next year and then move on to the new program with something to show for your hard work at your current one. This is assuming you can get into a different program. As you know, competition is fierce, and is only getting worse. Which makes sticking out the second year even more important. If you just leave, you may be stuck with no program at all. I'm not sure if that would be better or worse than your current situation. Tough decision, good luck.

 

[DrMindful]

Thanks berlin81, phipps, & addicted2stats. It is indeed a tough decision. I'm not going to make any rash decisions right now but its good to hear that changing schools is an option. The point about sticking it out till a Masters is also valid. If I'm in a similar position a year from now, I now know there is another option.

 

[krisrox]

I have no advice, but let me know how your reapplication process ends up going. I'm leaving my program because my advisor left and I'm interested in applying again to other programs. I'd like to freeload off of your experiences 🙂

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I have no advice, but let me know how your reapplication process ends up going. I'm leaving my program because my advisor left and I'm interested in applying again to other programs. I'd like to freeload off of your experiences 🙂

What was the program's response? I think it was you who posted about getting stuck w. your mentor leaving.

 

[Jegg]

Thanks berlin81, phipps, & addicted2stats. It is indeed a tough decision. I'm not going to make any rash decisions right now but its good to hear that changing schools is an option. The point about sticking it out till a Masters is also valid. If I'm in a similar position a year from now, I now know there is another option.

I wouldn't wait for the MA en passant personally. I was going to wait before leaving my current Clinical Psychology PhD program to get an MA first, but a few people in the field gave me the advice that I would be repeating a lot of stuff, so it would be a waste of precious time and money (in my case as a second career student the time issue was a particularly salient point...). I made the decision around the end of this last October, with the counsel of those friends, that I would apply to a handful of programs as a practice run, which was quite comical considering I had to jam six applications, a general GRE (my other one was over five years old as of 2010), and subject GRE (I didn't need one previously) into the mix of my current doctoral work and family life (wife and kids) at dates that were very close to the application deadlines. So, I had much less preparation than I would have liked, considering it was a last minute decision. Yet, it turned out really well for me! I have now left my previous program and will be starting a new program this Fall with a solid APPIC APA match rate and an in-house clinic.

You already have a years worth of grades, and if they are stellar, 4.0 or higher, you would benefit from picking a handful of programs ASAP and applying this coming year. You are already well ahead of the game for next years application round. You could stay in your current program and apply while attending. If worse comes to worse and you don't get in anywhere this time around, you could stick it out for another year and get the MA en passant (if they will allow you to take it as a terminal degree) while applying again the following year. That was my reasoning at least when applying this year. If I didn't get into another program this round, I would have spent another year at my current program and applied again next round. 👍

Whether or not you will be happier, I don't know. I know that there are much better opportunities for me at my new program than at my previous program, so I'm extremely pleased. I don't think there is any way to be 100% happy with any decent program because at some point you will be pushed past your comfort levels in order to grow as a doctoral candidate. Figuring out whether that is what is happening at your current program, or whether it is truly a lack of quality in that program, is crucial.

In your SOP I would definitely approach the reasons for leaving your current program delicately but honestly. Likewise, in interviews, if you are going to cast a negative shadow on aspects of the program or your experiences thereof, I would try and balance it out by casting a positive light on other aspects of the program or your experiences thereof.

 

[PsyDLICSW]

I have not transferred schools personally but know of two indiviuals who have been successful. Now, the transfers were from a research-based PhD program to a university-based, balanced PsyD program. I cannot speak to transfers to other PhD programs. I would apply to programs and then transfer if you are accepted. It may be a bad idea to quit a program before you get into another. You risk finding yourself without a program. Good luck.

 

[krisrox]

What was the program's response? I think it was you who posted about getting stuck w. your mentor leaving.

Yeah, sorry. Thanks for the concern. I should probably follow up on the thread with this news. Oops. Basically, I have to change my research interests if I want to stay in m program. I'm currently applying to masters programs so I can still research what I want to. I have good stats, so I'm hopeful about it. I'm pretty fed up with how uncatering my program has been to me. I'm ready to leave.

 

[psich]

Yeah, sorry. Thanks for the concern. I should probably follow up on the thread with this news. Oops. Basically, I have to change my research interests if I want to stay in m program. I'm currently applying to masters programs so I can still research what I want to. I have good stats, so I'm hopeful about it. I'm pretty fed up with how uncatering my program has been to me. I'm ready to leave.

I'm sorry to hear that 🙁 But wow, do you plan on getting a master's and then reapplying to doctoral programs?

 

[DrMindful]

I wouldn't wait for the MA en passant personally. I was going to wait before leaving my current Clinical Psychology PhD program to get an MA first, but a few people in the field gave me the advice that I would be repeating a lot of stuff, so it would be a waste of precious time and money (in my case as a second career student the time issue was a particularly salient point...). I made the decision around the end of this last October, with the counsel of those friends, that I would apply to a handful of programs as a practice run, which was quite comical considering I had to jam six applications, a general GRE (my other one was over five years old as of 2010), and subject GRE (I didn't need one previously) into the mix of my current doctoral work and family life (wife and kids) at dates that were very close to the application deadlines. So, I had much less preparation than I would have liked, considering it was a last minute decision. Yet, it turned out really well for me! I have now left my previous program and will be starting a new program this Fall with a solid APPIC APA match rate and an in-house clinic.

You already have a years worth of grades, and if they are stellar, 4.0 or higher, you would benefit from picking a handful of programs ASAP and applying this coming year. You are already well ahead of the game for next years application round. You could stay in your current program and apply while attending. If worse comes to worse and you don't get in anywhere this time around, you could stick it out for another year and get the MA en passant (if they will allow you to take it as a terminal degree) while applying again the following year. That was my reasoning at least when applying this year. If I didn't get into another program this round, I would have spent another year at my current program and applied again next round. 👍

Whether or not you will be happier, I don't know. I know that there are much better opportunities for me at my new program than at my previous program, so I'm extremely pleased. I don't think there is any way to be 100% happy with any decent program because at some point you will be pushed past your comfort levels in order to grow as a doctoral candidate. Figuring out whether that is what is happening at your current program, or whether it is truly a lack of quality in that program, is crucial.

In your SOP I would definitely approach the reasons for leaving your current program delicately but honestly. Likewise, in interviews, if you are going to cast a negative shadow on aspects of the program or your experiences thereof, I would try and balance it out by casting a positive light on other aspects of the program or your experiences thereof.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have a few questions about how you changed programs.
1. Who wrote your letters of rec? Did you have people from your former Phd program write for you or did you ask the people that you worked with prior to graduate school?
2. Did you tell your advisor you were applying to other programs? I'm all about transparency but for something like this, I'm not quite sure what to do. It seems ridiculous to tell them that "I am applying to other programs BUT if I don't get in, I'll stay at your school."
3. The GPA will probably be nearly the same as my UG but if I were to apply again, I'd have another poster, an encyclopedia entry, possibly a publication (definitely 2-3 manuscripts "in preparation."), and more clinical experience. How beneficial would this be? In other words, would the school higher expectations for someone from another doc program compared to other applicants?
4.During the interviews, did you get a sense that they were afraid you would leave their program too? I might be over-thinking it but I could imagine this to be of concern to the POI.

Much appreciated!

 

[Jegg]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have a few questions about how you changed programs.
1. Who wrote your letters of rec? Did you have people from your former Phd program write for you or did you ask the people that you worked with prior to graduate school?

I asked one professor from my previous program, the one I just left, in whose class I received a 4.33, but she totally flaked on me after agreeing to write the letter. Thankfully I was on top of things and had professors at other programs, a supervisor at a place where I did RA work, and a supervisor at a place where I do clinical work write letters.

2. Did you tell your advisor you were applying to other programs? I'm all about transparency but for something like this, I'm not quite sure what to do. It seems ridiculous to tell them that "I am applying to other programs BUT if I don't get in, I'll stay at your school."

I didn't say anything to the faculty, and I don't think it was necessary to say anything either. Call me paranoid, but no matter how impartial people claim to be, there is a risk that your current professors could hold a grudge and execute their bias against your GPA. I personally wouldn't risk it.

3. The GPA will probably be nearly the same as my UG but if I were to apply again, I'd have another poster, an encyclopedia entry, possibly a publication (definitely 2-3 manuscripts "in preparation."), and more clinical experience. How beneficial would this be? In other words, would the school higher expectations for someone from another doc program compared to other applicants?

Since you aren't transferring, I would think admissions will likely use the same criteria that they use for all incoming students. You likely have the benefit of being able to show them via your transcripts that you are capable of doing the graduate work. I'm not certain though. Perhaps it would behoove you to contact faculty at the programs to which you will apply and see if they expect anything extra from a transitioning student applicant.

4.During the interviews, did you get a sense that they were afraid you would leave their program too? I might be over-thinking it but I could imagine this to be of concern to the POI.

I was quite clear why I was leaving my current program, and most interviewers seemed more interested in the specifics of why I was looking to change programs than if I was going to leave their programs. The schools I applied to didn't suffer from the issues that were enticing me to leave my previous program, so I suppose the interviewers had nothing to be threatened about. I guess one interviewer did bring up the issue, as well as some others, in a subtle ad hominem attack against me, but the place was a dump anyway and I was accepted into a better program. 😀

Much appreciated!

NP!