Is it time for physicians to unionize?

[deafdealer]

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Members don't see this ad.

Technically we could go on strike, since midlevels have convinced everyone that they provide equal or better care. Wonder how the public would feel after that...

 

[Goro]

You already have a union...it's called the AMA

 

[ShaolinMaster]

You already have a union...it's called the AMA

I laughed at this one for a good minute. Thank you.

Yeah, I couldn't imagine how the public would take a "bunch of over payed doctors" striking. The Pharm industry would LOVE it.

 

[allantois]

Maybe you should become a physician, before going on strike

 

[deafdealer]

Maybe you should become a physician, before going on strike

That's fine but these issues aren't going away.

 

[ActinicKeratosis]

My understanding is that the AMA is actually a pretty powerful organization. The thing is that "defending turf" doesn't really seem to be a priority for most medical students currently. The hot topics these days seem to be social justice, diversity, etc... (which btw I believe are important).

 

[WingedOx]

The thing is that "defending turf" doesn't really seem to be a priority for most medical students currently.

Are you saying that SDN isn't a representative sample?

 

[Med Ed]

Technically we could go on strike, since midlevels have convinced everyone that they provide equal or better care. Wonder how the public would feel after that...

Docs working in a single hospital or health system can unionize, although those are still a novelty. All the docs around town, the state, or the nation cannot currently unionize, as it would create a huge target for anti-trust lawsuits.

 

[ActinicKeratosis]

Are you saying that SDN isn't a representative sample?

Perhaps I'll rephrase my statement to say publically "defending turf" at medical school campuses doesn't really seem to be a priority for most medical students currently. It seems to be more of an online phenomenon.

 

[Osteoth]

Technically we could go on strike, since midlevels have convinced everyone that they provide equal or better care. Wonder how the public would feel after that...

Doctors are too disparate to strike as a group IMO. The specialties which are high demand/low supply still do basically wield the clout to push organizations around based on the economics of their business from my understanding.

I laughed at this one for a good minute. Thank you.

Yeah, I couldn't imagine how the public would take a "bunch of over payed doctors" striking. The Pharm industry would LOVE it.

The biggest myth in the world is that doctors are over paid.

My understanding is that the AMA is actually a pretty powerful organization. The thing is that "defending turf" doesn't really seem to be a priority for most medical students currently. The hot topics these days seem to be social justice, diversity, etc... (which btw I believe are important).

Everyone always tells me the AMA is just the guard dog for doctors salaries... which I'm pretty ok with.

Docs working in a single hospital or health system can unionize, although those are still a novelty. All the docs around town, the state, or the nation cannot currently unionize, as it would create a huge target for anti-trust lawsuits.

Residents can't legally unionize though, right?

 

[Med Ed]

Residents can't legally unionize though, right?

Ask these folks.

 

[hamstergang]

Residents can't legally unionize though, right?

I was part of a union as a resident.

 

[hamstergang]

Technically we could go on strike, since midlevels have convinced everyone that they provide equal or better care. Wonder how the public would feel after that...

I imagine most doctors would feel terrible about all the extra morbidity and mortality that would result from a doctors' strike, so I don't think it would be too likely.

Unless the issue being protested were directly killing more people -- why exactly do you want us to strike?

 

[WingedOx]

Ask these folks.

oh, god. Let's not bump THAT thread now...

 

[Goro]

Docs working in a single hospital or health system can unionize, although those are still a novelty. All the docs around town, the state, or the nation cannot currently unionize, as it would create a huge target for anti-trust lawsuits.

Association is a polite way of saying union. But instead of striking, one has to lobby. Politicians might not be bought, but you can rent them.

 

[jdh71]

You already have a union...it's called the AMA

You are a funny guy goro. It's why I like you.

 

[WingedOx]

You are a funny guy goro. It's why I like you.

Well...he could have said AMSA.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Residents can't legally unionize though, right?

Yes they can because they are employees of a system. Doctors who are bosses or hold manager level positions cannot. However, doctors in a health care system can, since they are employees can unionize.

EDIT MADE

 

[neoevolution]

I thought there were laws limiting the ability of physicians to strike? On the state level maybe?

 

[Anti-PD1]

The AMA is a wasteland of sellouts. There's a reason they prey on medical students. They can't keep their membership numbers up. The AMA = garbage. This was evident the first and last time I went to the national meeting.

Excepting legal reasons etc for a minute, the number one reason physicians do not unionize is because one MD doesn't care about another MD. Why should an orthopedic surgeon stick his neck out for the PCP getting reamed? Or the OBGYN for the radiologist getting fleeced? (I'm being descriptive, not prescriptive, know the difference). The best we have right now are specialty organizations. A few specialty organizations share productive relationships with each other but that's it. Case in point, neurosurgery would be paid peanuts if it wasn't for ortho surg lobbying for spine reimbursements.

 

[Triple Cheeseburger]

My understanding is that the AMA is actually a pretty powerful organization. The thing is that "defending turf" doesn't really seem to be a priority for most medical students currently. The hot topics these days seem to be social justice, diversity, etc... (which btw I believe are important).

All garbage political talking points that do NOTHING to advance our profession. They serve as a distraction from real issues.

 

[Triple Cheeseburger]

The AMA is a wasteland of sellouts. There's a reason they prey on medical students. They can't keep their membership numbers up. The AMA = garbage. This was evident the first and last time I went to the national meeting.

Excepting legal reasons etc for a minute, the number one reason physicians do not unionize is because one MD doesn't care about another MD. Why should an orthopedic surgeon stick his neck out for the PCP getting reamed? Or the OBGYN for the radiologist getting fleeced? (I'm being descriptive, not prescriptive, know the difference). The best we have right now are specialty organizations. A few specialty organizations share productive relationships with each other but that's it. Case in point, neurosurgery would be paid peanuts if it wasn't for ortho surg lobbying for spine reimbursements.

All of the medical organizations including most medical schools prey on students. Take a look at the ridiculous examination fees charged from MCAT all the way to board certification exams. $1300 for Step 2, a test with zero value unless you are the NBOME or NBME. Look at the AAMC and their revenue generated through the various dishonest subentities like ERAS and VSAS. Do these programs need to be so expensive? Hell no!! But they are because they get away with it.

 

[Triple Cheeseburger]

I think part of the reason why physicians don't unionize is because there is little or no benefit. Physicians of all specialties are very much in demand so there isn't much of an advantage.

 

[Osteoth]

The AMA is a wasteland of sellouts. There's a reason they prey on medical students. They can't keep their membership numbers up. The AMA = garbage. This was evident the first and last time I went to the national meeting.

Excepting legal reasons etc for a minute, the number one reason physicians do not unionize is because one MD doesn't care about another MD. Why should an orthopedic surgeon stick his neck out for the PCP getting reamed? Or the OBGYN for the radiologist getting fleeced? (I'm being descriptive, not prescriptive, know the difference). The best we have right now are specialty organizations. A few specialty organizations share productive relationships with each other but that's it. Case in point, neurosurgery would be paid peanuts if it wasn't for ortho surg lobbying for spine reimbursements.

What do you mean about the national meeting?

Your second point is spot on.

All garbage political talking points that do NOTHING to advance our profession. They serve as a distraction from real issues.

I wouldn't go that far. Our business is built on those factors.

I think part of the reason why physicians don't unionize is because there is little or no benefit. Physicians of all specialties are very much in demand so there isn't much of an advantage.

There is a huge benefit. Physicians have been taking a beating in autonomy and compensation for a while now. Can't imagine there would be as much of a mess if we fought harder against it.

 

[Triple Cheeseburger]

What do you mean about the national meeting?

Your second point is spot on.



I wouldn't go that far. Our business is built on those factors.



There is a huge benefit. Physicians have been taking a beating in autonomy and compensation for a while now. Can't imagine there would be as much of a mess if we fought harder against it.

Social justice and diversity are not issues that are of any urgency to solve, frequently I hear the social justice/diversity garbage without a clear definition or specific proposed solution. Social justice is one of those elusive concepts without a solution, meaning it can't be solved. No matter how hard we try, life isn't fair.

I don't think unionizing is the answer, but we should be more organized in defending our territory. I have been to my state capital over five times in the last three years and it is common to see far more mid-level practitioners than physicians. The impression I have gotten from some representatives/senators and physicians is that relative to nurses, NPs, and PAs, physicians do very little to advocate for the profession.