Is it weird for a student to submit posters and such without a co-author?

[Psychologist_dreamer]

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My faculty advisor on my thesis is not in the position to advise me any more and expressed not wanting co-authorship for conference posters or publications. I did graduate some time ago (2017).

I actually have to rescind her authorship status on a poster I already got accepted to a conference now which I anxiety about. I hope they don't pull my poster 🙁

For journals and other stuff though is it weird to submit something by yourself? Should I still even bother?

Trying to strengthen my CV to reapply to PhD programs next cycle and want to send out my thesis, but I feel funny about it not having a faculty co author.

Any advice would be helpful, thanks!

 

[Justanothergrad]

Why would she not not want to be on it? That's not a long time ago...

 

[Seven_Costanza]

This seems strange to me. Why would she want to remove herself from any papers or posters?

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

This seems strange to me. Why would she want to remove herself from any papers or posters?

It was for a class, I wasnt in her lab. But we did IRBS and it's a legit project and everything. I think she just doesnt want to exert the effort of helping me with submitting it 2 years after the class when I'm not in her lab.

Its annoying to me as well, in the class she talked about how we should submit our projects and everything. I dont really get it, i got an A in the class on the project as well so it's not like it was bad or anything and it got accepted to a big conference for a poster so it's not total garbage lol

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

Why would she not not want to be on it? That's not a long time ago...

Check my above comment!

 

[deleted836592]

I don't think it's a big deal. Good research is good research. I can't imagine a conference pulling your poster for this reason.

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

I don't think it's a big deal. Good research is good research. I can't imagine a conference pulling your poster for this reason.

Awesome thank you for the encouragement.

It's my first time doing all this so it's a little nerve wracking doing it on my own, and having this crop up. I emailed her twice about wanting to submit it and stuff and she didnt get back to me so I just listed her as coauthor for the conference as she was my faculty advisor on the irb and I thought you sort of had to, so I think she just ended up being pissed that I Iisted her without her resounding confirmation? But like, answer your emails idfk.

Doing more research on journal submissions you need more things like written statements from authors and all that, so obviously I wasnt going to go ahead and do that but I didnt really know what to do with this conference. It is what it is I guess. I just hope I'll still be able to go.

 

[denimfan]

Awesome thank you for the encouragement.

It's my first time doing all this so it's a little nerve wracking doing it on my own, and having this crop up. I emailed her twice about wanting to submit it and stuff and she didnt get back to me so I just listed her as coauthor for the conference as she was my faculty advisor on the irb and I thought you sort of had to, so I think she just ended up being pissed that I Iisted her without her resounding confirmation? But like, answer your emails idfk.

Doing more research on journal submissions you need more things like written statements from authors and all that, so obviously I wasnt going to go ahead and do that but I didnt really know what to do with this conference. It is what it is I guess. I just hope I'll still be able to go.

I don't understand why she got pissed at you when you did reach out wanting to confirm authorship. Also, you still included her in the poster and I'm assuming she didn't even have to do any work to get her name on it. IMO this is just bad mentorship. She is on the IRB, she should either see this through or should have provided you with different options to continue the project without her on it if she really cannot be involved anymore.

And yes, you can submit single author manuscripts as a student. There are some journals that don't allow you to do that without a faculty mentor but most allow it. You just need to read the submission guidelines and make sure there are no restrictions.

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

I don't understand why she got pissed at you when you did reach out wanting to confirm authorship. Also, you still included her in the poster and I'm assuming she didn't even have to do any work to get her name on it. IMO this is just bad mentorship. She is on the IRB, she should either see this through or should have provided you with different options to continue the project without her on it if she really cannot be involved anymore.

And yes, you can submit single author manuscripts as a student. There are some journals that don't allow you to do that without a faculty mentor but most allow it. You just need to read the submission guidelines and make sure there are no restrictions.

Right?? That's how I feel about it. I thought I did the right thing. I emailed her and the TA right after I graduated for final final feedback on the paper because I wanted to move forward with it, no response. Emailed again that summer saying I was thinking of sending it to this conference (its biennial and international) and received no response and opted out since it was overseas. Then I got focused on gre and apps and didnt pursue this sort of thing. Then over this last summer (1 year later) I contacted again about wanting to present and publish and stuff, and received no response again. So that's 3 times I reached out! And they were very encouraging during the class saying we should submit it and go forth with our projects so I honestly dont get it.
Plus when I submitted back in August I'm sure she was notified. She didnt say anything to me then, or when I got accepted. Only last week when we got the schedule and time of my poster did she try to pass the buck to my lab mentors who had nothing to do with the project.

Honestly the mentorship at my MA program was very less than ideal! So it is almost a relief to have them say they dont want involvement any further. At least I got an IRB and feedback on development of the project from them.

The 1 crappy thing is that I did use 2 scales that she has access to for her students as per her request to include in the project, and they were not open access scales like the others I used. So to submit to journals I'll need her permission from those people to have her students use those scales, and since she didnt answer the other 2 emails and is being weird about this poster idk if I'll get that out of her.
I'm thinking I should just drop those scales from my paper and everything and only use the data from the open access ones I used. It sort of effects my results, but not terribly.

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

Theres another conference I was on the fence applying to that has a submission deadline of Jan 31st, I think I'll submit as a single author to that one in case this complicates my standing in this conference.

And anyways I think I can afford going to both now so!

 

[calimich]

For journals and other stuff though is it weird to submit something by yourself? Should I still even bother?

Trying to strengthen my CV to reapply to PhD programs next cycle and want to send out my thesis, but I feel funny about it not having a faculty co author.

No, it's not weird at all...in fact it may demonstrate greater initiative, however it may also be more difficult to prepare something conference-worthy without the input of a mentor.

 

[Justanothergrad]

This just sounds odd

No, it's not weird at all...in fact it may demonstrate greater initiative, however it may also be more difficult to prepare something conference-worthy without the input of a mentor.

As a counter point, I do take notice if someone doesn't have co-authored things and they did a masters. It's abnormal. There may be a good reason for it but it catches my eye as a potential flag. I will ask about it

 

[futureapppsy2]

It kind of sounds like there is something else going on here...

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

It kind of sounds like there is something else going on here...

Its honestly probably because shes busy enough with her own lab students and just frankly doesnt care about investing any more time or energy into me and it's an ego thing with what her name is on. Like she wants to micromanage anything with her name on it but doesnt want to micromanage me. I wasnt in her lab, the project was for a rigorous class. I just dont think she really cares about helping me because I wasnt one of her lab students. I think for students in the class who used the projects to go forth in the research world were predominantly in her lab, or the projects were in collaboration with their lab so their main mentors probably focused on this end of things. My project was separate from my lab because after being in the lab for 2 years I realized my interest wasnt really in that area that my mentors focused on, but I did do another separate thesis project with them anyways.

I just dont think she mentors students on conferences and publications that arent in her lab.
UPDATE: also, she's apparently on sabbatical lol

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

This just sounds odd

As a counter point, I do take notice if someone doesn't have co-authored things and they did a masters. It's abnormal. There may be a good reason for it but it catches my eye as a potential flag. I will ask about it

You mean no authorship at all or no co authors?

Very few MA students in my program published or went to conferences at all. Not even all the PhD students did

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

No, it's not weird at all...in fact it may demonstrate greater initiative, however it may also be more difficult to prepare something conference-worthy without the input of a mentor.

Yeah I have some anxiety about my poster not looking as good and not speaking about the project as well as people getting coached but I'm trying to stay positive and just be happy I will get there and be able to put it on my CV at all. I can't afford to go to any day besides the day of my poster presentation so networking opportunity will be limited and I get sort of shy in big things like this too. So to be honest I'm just happy to go at all and have it on my CV. Anything else is a bonus

 

[deleted343839]

I actually have to rescind her authorship status on a poster I already got accepted to a conference now which I anxiety about.

Did you submit the poster with her advance knowledge and consent to be a co-author?

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

Did you submit the poster with her advance knowledge and consent to be a co-author?

I discussed this further up the thread in more detail, please read my other comments

 

[WisNeuro]

Did you submit the poster with her advance knowledge and consent to be a co-author?

OP e-mailed the professor about it, did not hear back, and submitted anyway from my read.

 

[deleted343839]

I discussed this further up the thread in more detail, please read my other comments

Oh, so you did. I'm sorry I missed that!!

It does sound as though this person, for reasons we can only speculate about, does not have the time or interest or whatever to work with you on this project any longer. Without a doubt, she should have been more clear about her boundaries and not just ignored your efforts to reach out. However, this does not take away the fact that you should not have submitted the abstract with her name on it without some affirmative communication on her end.

Though there are some ethical gray areas when co-authors decide to ghost, it depends on their level of involvement in the project, the amount of time elapsed, what else is at stake, etc. The circumstances in this case make your decision to submit without her express consent more difficult to justify.

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

Oh, so you did. I'm sorry I missed that!!

It does sound as though this person, for reasons we can only speculate about, does not have the time or interest or whatever to work with you on this project any longer. Without a doubt, she should have been more clear about her boundaries and not just ignored your efforts to reach out. However, this does not take away the fact that you should not have submitted the abstract with her name on it without some affirmative communication on her end.

Though there are some ethical gray areas when co-authors decide to ghost, it depends on their level of involvement in the project, the amount of time elapsed, what else is at stake, etc. The circumstances in this case make your decision to submit without her express consent more difficult to justify.

I just didnt know, I'm not experienced in this I thought I would get in trouble if I didnt list my faculty advisor to be honest. I felt a little weird about it but I didnt think I could do it otherwise.

I've done a lot more research in the last month or so especially since I'd like to submit to journals and I see my mistake now. But no one was telling me how to go about this so when you leave students to figure this stuff out themselves this sort of thing is bound to happen

 

[deleted343839]

I just didnt know, I'm not experienced in this I thought I would get in trouble if I didnt list my faculty advisor to be honest. I felt a little weird about it but I didnt think I could do it otherwise.

I've done a lot more research in the last month or so especially since I'd like to submit to journals and I see my mistake now. But no one was telling me how to go about this so when you leave students to figure this stuff out themselves this sort of thing is bound to happen

I agree that your professors should have made their boundaries more clear, and also taught you better about publication ethics (though there are free resources that you can also consult for guidance). This is a tough situation, and taking the high road probably means sacrificing this opportunity to publish. Best to learn from it what you can and move on.

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

I agree that your professors should have made their boundaries more clear, and also taught you better about publication ethics (though there are free resources that you can also consult for guidance). This is a tough situation, and taking the high road probably means sacrificing this opportunity to publish. Best to learn from it what you can and move on.

Well she said shes happy I'm going forward with work she just isnt in position to advise this phase and isnt comfortable with her name being on work shes not looking over the presentation of.

So I think if I just dont include her as author I should be ok?

 

[deleted343839]

Well she said shes happy I'm going forward with work she just isnt in position to advise this phase and isnt comfortable with her name being on work shes not looking over the presentation of.

So I think if I just dont include her as author I should be ok?

Give it a go. It's unusual but the worst that could happen is that someone says no to your submission. For the purposes of the conference just let the organizer know.

Make sure to save your correspondence so that you have a record of your discussions about authorship.

 

[psychrat]

Theres another conference I was on the fence applying to that has a submission deadline of Jan 31st, I think I'll submit as a single author to that one in case this complicates my standing in this conference.

And anyways I think I can afford going to both now so!

You plan on submitting the same exact poster at two different conferences?

 

[psychrat]

Oh, so you did. I'm sorry I missed that!!

It does sound as though this person, for reasons we can only speculate about, does not have the time or interest or whatever to work with you on this project any longer. Without a doubt, she should have been more clear about her boundaries and not just ignored your efforts to reach out. However, this does not take away the fact that you should not have submitted the abstract with her name on it without some affirmative communication on her end.

Though there are some ethical gray areas when co-authors decide to ghost, it depends on their level of involvement in the project, the amount of time elapsed, what else is at stake, etc. The circumstances in this case make your decision to submit without her express consent more difficult to justify.

I probably would have tried to call if I did not hear back via email. Email is easy to ignore.

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

You plan on submitting the same exact poster at two different conferences?

Can you not do multiple conferences?
Also I was thinking more so as backup in case there ends up being an issue now with this one

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

I probably would have tried to call if I did not hear back via email. Email is easy to ignore.

I know...I need to be more confident and proactive. I take stuff like that a little personally and then dont want go be a nuisance. Probably why it's easy for me to fade into the background in labs, I find graduate faculty generally to be very intimidating and I dont want to bother/upset them

 

[deleted343839]

Can you not do multiple conferences?
Also I was thinking more so as backup in case there ends up being an issue now with this one

In general, you shouldn't submit identical work to two different conferences. It is OK to submit similar work to a local/regional conference and then a national/international conference, but submitting the same paper to two national-level conferences is usually frowned upon (though it is far from a grave, career-ending sin in the big picture). You definitely shouldn't submit identical work to two different journals, that is, not concurrently - this could have worse ramifications.

A resource for you (though it is more relevant to publications than conference presentations): Committee on Publication Ethics: COPE | Promoting integrity in research publication

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Can you not do multiple conferences?
Also I was thinking more so as backup in case there ends up being an issue now with this one

You can attend multiple conferences, certainly. But it's generally recommended against to submit the same poster to two different conferences.

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

In general, you shouldn't submit identical work to two different conferences. It is OK to submit similar work to a local/regional conference and then a national/international conference, but submitting the same paper to two national-level conferences is usually frowned upon (though it is far from a grave, career-ending sin in the big picture). You definitely shouldn't submit identical work to two different journals, that is, not concurrently - this could have worse ramifications.

A resource for you (though it is more relevant to publications than conference presentations): Committee on Publication Ethics: COPE | Promoting integrity in research publication

I understand journals are copy righted and you cant have 2 journals reviewing at the same time but I didnt know that conferences were an issue, thanks!

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

You can attend multiple conferences, certainly. But it's generally recommended against to submit the same poster to two different conferences.

Ok thank you. Is there a particular reason for that ? I thought it would look good to have 2 conferences if possible so I appreciate the feedback on that.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Ok thank you. Is there a particular reason for that ? I thought it would look good to have 2 conferences if possible so I appreciate the feedback on that.

Essentially for the reason you've listed--it's sort of like double-dipping to get twice the "credit" for a single poster.

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

Essentially for the reason you've listed--it's sort of like double-dipping to get twice the "credit" for a single poster.

Ok that's fair enough, thank you!

 

[PsyDuck90]

Ok thank you. Is there a particular reason for that ? I thought it would look good to have 2 conferences if possible so I appreciate the feedback on that.

If you present the same poster at 2 conferences, you can really only list 1 on your CV anyway. Otherwise, people could pad their CV like crazy if people could shop a single poster/talk to multiple conferences.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Ok that's fair enough, thank you!

Sure thing. It's also often against the submission rules of the conference, although that can of course vary.

 

[psychrat]

Can you not do multiple conferences?
Also I was thinking more so as backup in case there ends up being an issue now with this one

Be sure to read the conference guidelines. Some national conferences have a clause stating that the research cannot be presented at other national conferences (I believe APA has something like this). Also, if you list the same poster twice on a CV, it will look like padding, so I would likely only list it once.

 

[psychrat]

I know...I need to be more confident and proactive. I take stuff like that a little personally and then dont want go be a nuisance. Probably why it's easy for me to fade into the background in labs, I find graduate faculty generally to be very intimidating and I dont want to bother/upset them

We have all felt that way at time, but sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Some people are also just terrible at responding to emails and need the extra nudge of a phone call to answer.

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

Sure thing. It's also often against the submission rules of the conference, although that can of course vary.

The 1 I'm accepted to now said they didnt want anything that may have been seen before, I didnt look into what the had to say about it yet..

But good advice to only do 1 per project, thanks everybody!

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

We have all felt that way at time, but sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Some people are also just terrible at responding to emails and need the extra nudge of a phone call to answer.

I feel like calling a professor is so like...thirsty and demanding though. I dont think I could do it unless they said it was ok to call them. I only spoke to one professor on the phone and that was a potential mentor to go over things and he offered so that was very different.

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

I think psychology academia is such a convoluted mess to navigate as well. It's like show initiative, but dont be annoying. Do work, but not too much work. Be outspoken otherwise you'll be overlooked, but hey shut up you dont know what your talking about.
Idk.. Its frustrating to figure out what's the appropriate way to be and communicate with faculty sometimes

 

[psychrat]

I feel like calling a professor is so like...thirsty and demanding though. I dont think I could do it unless they said it was ok to call them. I only spoke to one professor on the phone and that was a potential mentor to go over things and he offered so that was very different.

Leaving a voicemail on an office phone to follow up on an email is hardly thirsty and demanding. I am not saying call her cell phone during a family dinner.

 

[Seven_Costanza]

It's like show initiative, but dont be annoying. Do work, but not too much work. Be outspoken otherwise you'll be overlooked, but hey shut up you dont know what your talking about.

I’ve never had any advisor tell me not to do too much work.

In fact, it’s the opposite. No matter how much work you do, there’s always a sense of you can be doing more - which is a major contributor to the higher level of mental health issues among PhD students compared to students pursuing other degrees (including MDs).


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[WisNeuro]

In fact, it’s the opposite. No matter how much work you do, there’s always a sense of you can be doing more - which is a major contributor to the higher level of mental health issues among PhD students compared to students pursuing other degrees (including MDs).

Is this true, I always though that the different advanced degrees all had higher, and similar levels of MH issues?

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

I’ve never had any advisor tell me not to do too much work.

In fact, it’s the opposite. No matter how much work you do, there’s always a sense of you can be doing more - which is a major contributor to the higher level of mental health issues among PhD students compared to students pursuing other degrees (including MDs).


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

I mean more in the sense of seeming like greedy w/ work or like sort of in my instance where we were encouraged to go forth with our projects from this course and then now I'm having issues with having done that and giving credit to the supervisor lol

 

[Justanothergrad]

I’ve never had any advisor tell me not to do too much work.

I do it sometimes. The level of perfectionism that has led students to be successful can be a problem sometimes, so my job is to balance that. Sometimes it means telling people to do more. Sometimes it means telling them to do less.

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

I do it sometimes. The level of perfectionism that has led students to be successful can be a problem sometimes, so my job is to balance that. Sometimes it means telling people to do more. Sometimes it means telling them to do less.

Yeah like students who are the only ones who raise their hands and want to speak in class being told to not and teachers pull for others to speak